Follow command: bugs and improvements


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Blades Runner

Posts: 593

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Friday, 1st May 2020, 11:08

Follow command: bugs and improvements

At present, the follow command in DCSS is bugged. It results in some unexpected and occasionally frustrating outcomes.
The UI and what the game does does not align. "Follow" has a two potential meanings pertinent to the game, since we can safely conclude the game is not implying the player will be "observed" or something:

1. Ally simply attempts to move towards the player
2. Ally copies player action(s)

Now, let's explore a few interactions in the game, and see if the game adheres to the meaning of the UI:

- Player attacks an enemy in melee, ally attacks enemy in melee (#2). Reasonable.
- Player moves away from enemy, ally follows the player (#1). Also potentially reasonable.

But we already have a problem. One command is using the same word differently depending on context, with zero indication of this in advance. Thus what allies on "follow" command is already spoiler information, just with the above. It gets worse, unfortunately:

- Player attacks enemy in melee, then moves away. Ally does not follow (fails #1 and #2), and instead continues to attack. It is not copying the player action any longer, nor is it simply moving towards the player. Objectively bad.
- Ally on follow command stops to attack a monster even when player only runs away after issuing order (fails #1 and #2). Objectively bad, because this does not confirm to any accepted meaning of the word "follow" either.
- Player shoots an enemy, ally moves towards enemy to attack in melee (#2). Except #2 fails, because allies with ranged attacks and/or magic do not mimic ranged attacks or magic (fails #1 and #2). Works sometimes, objectively bad other times.

At present, the UI lies to the player about what will happen with the "follow" command sometimes, and at other times the command simply lacks disambiguation that is not generally tolerated for other crawl mechanics (including other ally commands!).

Proposed improvement:

1. "Follow" command simply does #1. If the ally can't move towards the player but can attack a monster without moving away, it does so. This is genuinely more useful than the present functionality, simpler to understand, and more accurate.

I even asked several people who have barely played how they'd expect the command to work, and this is what they told me.

2. Alternatively or in addition, change "follow" to "smart move"/add command "smart move" with present functionality. Basically, choose a word or phrase that does not constrain player anticipation of the order to something obviously different from what the game does.

Right now, the game state and UI do not align to such an extent that the UI lies, and this bug creates a fair amount of tedium + frustration, for summoning magic, several god abilities, and even evocations.

"Attack", "retreat", and "guard" do not share this problem and seem mostly fine. In fact, "attack" could generally be used to get any benefit "follow" might get from ignoring orders right now...without the downside of the game lying to the player.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1004

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 1st May 2020, 15:22

Re: Follow command: bugs and improvements

I quite like the simple rule set you suggest, for Follow. It may be a little weir when your ally stands around doing nothing occasionally, but that's probably a price worth paying.

Do you think that it should be possible for allies to get 'distracted' by enemies, sometimes causing them to drop out of Follow behaviour when they are attacked?

Blades Runner

Posts: 593

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Friday, 1st May 2020, 15:56

Re: Follow command: bugs and improvements

petercordia wrote:I quite like the simple rule set you suggest, for Follow. It may be a little weir when your ally stands around doing nothing occasionally, but that's probably a price worth paying.

Do you think that it should be possible for allies to get 'distracted' by enemies, sometimes causing them to drop out of Follow behaviour when they are attacked?


Allies doing nothing/staying adjacent to player is very often preferable to them moving away/blocking. If you're a ranged character or mage, having your allies move in front of you exposes them to damage that often kills them, while preventing you from doing damage. On net that lowers survivability AND damage output for the player. Player with allies on follow could instead shoot target(s), then back away as monster gets close, potentially giving allies free hits (or swap places to escape). And if you want allies to move in front of you and block, there is already a command for that (attack).

If follow worked the simple way I would use it more than any other command, for all of melee/ranged/spellcaster. No more allies running in when you try to lure something, no more allies running into hallways when you're at the exit to one allowing a 2v1 or 3v1 gank choke. No more getting your ranged attacks blocked with a confirmation prompt + an outcome that strictly reduces your damage for almost every possible ally.

If the change makes it too strong, allowing allies to be "distracted" could work to curb it a bit. Since this also happens to monsters it wouldn't be unreasonable to happen to allies that get attacked. Plus it would add positional relevance, since your movement/positioning of allies would determine whether they get attacked.

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