Throwing Brand Removals thread


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 179

Joined: Thursday, 27th November 2014, 19:12

Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 16:12

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

I’m a step ahead of you. Boomerangs always return even at 0 skill in the current iteration.

For this message the author ebering has received thanks: 3
petercordia, Rast, sdynet

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 320

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Saturday, 11th May 2019, 06:13

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

With javelins always penetrating I'll feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot if I ever start throwing with a kobold/halfling. (I know they don't actually get any worse, it just feels that way.)

Might it be possible to boost kobold throwing, by eg increasing their abtitude or reducing their much rates?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8588

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 11th May 2019, 06:15

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Or by letting them throw javelins

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
nago

Dungeon Master

Posts: 179

Joined: Thursday, 27th November 2014, 19:12

Post Saturday, 11th May 2019, 18:10

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

This has been merged into master.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 204

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Saturday, 11th May 2019, 23:10

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

petercordia wrote:With javelins always penetrating I'll feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot if I ever start throwing with a kobold/halfling.


Conversely it seems like Throwing is going to be astonishingly good on races that can use javs, and it's already pretty good - and if you don't go Oka or Trog, the luck of the draw on getting Shoals and a lifetime supply of javelins will be even more important. I'm generally impressed with this change but I worry all-penetration javelins might be a bit too strong.
Ascension reports with too many words since 2016.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 135

Joined: Sunday, 11th May 2014, 11:26

Post Sunday, 12th May 2019, 02:27

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

hm, if all-penetration javelins can be too strong, how about creating a probability of being given a penetration brand?
formula: 10 + (throwing skill * 3) + (throwing skill / 3)%
The probability is 10% when the skill level is zero, and 100% when the skill level is 27. For enemy use HD instead of skill level.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 204

Joined: Monday, 12th September 2016, 16:25

Post Sunday, 12th May 2019, 02:32

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

sdynet wrote:hm, if all-penetration javelins can be too strong, how about creating a probability of being given a penetration brand?
formula: 10 + (throwing skill * 3) + (throwing skill / 3)%


I thought that might be the next option. It's obviously less strong and that might fix the problem (if there is one) but it's a bit of a change from the current situation where you can use a penetration javelin to pick out a summoner from their meatshield.
Ascension reports with too many words since 2016.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8588

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 12th May 2019, 03:10

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Penetration is usually inferior to Portal Projectile, it's really not much of a buff for non-Trog characters. Admittedly Trog characters are not in need of a buff either, but y'all are way overreacting to this, just like when large rocks got penetration.

I do think penetration would work better as an innate property of a whole weapon class (throwing, crossbows, whatever) than an innate property of one weapon/ammo type within that class, though. If it's on one ammo type then you get a bunch of quiver swapping. Obviously still a huge improvement over having the egos though, thanks ebering.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks: 2
nago, TheMeInTeam

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Sunday, 12th May 2019, 06:38

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Penetration could be changed such that it is a formula. Something roughly like the following:

(based on skill and str)
You have x% chance to penetrate past the first enemy, decreasing to x-y%, and so forth with gradually decreasing chances with each successive penetration.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 320

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Wednesday, 15th May 2019, 21:43

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

I'm playing an Ogre thrower, and I really appreciate the changes you made.

Some comments:
Throwing is really strong. I cleared the dungeon up to D:15 without going into any branches with little trouble.
Boomerangs are really convenient.
Boomerangs of dispersal are a nice feature in the game. (They saved my life once or twice.)
Javelins are really strong. At my current throwing skill they are stronger than large rocks, even against single targets (because they throw much faster). It might play a factor that I've only had silver javelins so far (from Oka). I think javelins are probably too strong.
Stones are OK at killing stuff in the early dungeon, but drop off in usefulness, which is good. (imo)
Sometimes I throw a large rock at a sleeping enemy and I miss. The enemy invariably wakes up. I don't understand how this is possible.

So far I'm carrying all throwables I've found. Optimal play has won out over quality of life, so congrats ;)
I'll probably start dropping throwables fairly soon though. Poisoned darts, stones, silver tomahawks, and plain javelins all look redundant. I would have dropped the stones sooner if I wasn't worried about running out of tomahawks. Oka doesn't seem inclined to give me any. Silver tomahawks are redundant because in any situation where I need extra damage I'll use a javelin, and plain javelins are redundant because I have enough silver javelins.

For this message the author petercordia has received thanks: 2
chequers, nago

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 135

Joined: Sunday, 11th May 2014, 11:26

Post Thursday, 16th May 2019, 03:03

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

I've thought about remove poisoned darts, silver tomahawks, normal javelins, but I think this is too extreme an idea. I think we are close to the goal of reducing the number of items... maybe?
Therefore, I will now turn to improve the '0-skill no-brainers' problem rather than this one. I guess we can probably find a way to solve the remaining inventory management problems in the process of improving the '0-skill no-brainers' problem.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 320

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Thursday, 16th May 2019, 10:57

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

I should clarify the poisoned darts are only redundant in the late game. I remember many baileys which I could not have beaten without poisoned darts. My Ogre thrower also has the staff of Olgreb, making poisoned darts even less useful to him than usual.
Because javelins are OP, I would prefer removing silver javelins and buffing silver boomerangs (to the point where they deal more damage than javelins.)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Saturday, 18th May 2019, 18:10

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

The shortcut keys ( and ) for cycling through your quiver don't seem to acknowledge boomerangs or darts

Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Monday, 18th March 2019, 22:11

Post Yesterday, 02:13

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Just wanted to share the feedback on the throwing changes so far. Here is the game in question: https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/tabtab/tabtab.txt.

Overall throwing felt very strong and I liked both jav's penetration and boomerangs. It does seem like the frequency of silver javelins on the other hand is way too high (maybe it was high before but I never noticed, or this game is just an anomaly). I really should not have 99 silver javelins after completing shoals.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 242

Joined: Tuesday, 11th December 2018, 19:14

Post Yesterday, 14:28

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Are silver javelins actually a problem? They're normal javelins other than against OOF and slimes. I've never seen 99 though even in the new patch.

I'm liking the changes overall, going back to .23 for CSDC I'd not look forward to throwing again with all the split brands. Though with that FeBe pick I guess I didn't have to worry about that this week :/.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 179

Joined: Thursday, 27th November 2014, 19:12

Post Yesterday, 14:44

Re: Throwing Brand Removals thread

Silver is now silver plus steel. According to the objstat runs you just got a high roll.
Previous

Return to Game Design Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.