Shop improvements

[PowerOfKaishin]

There are a lot of shops in the game that exist only as cruel jokes, such as the shop full of nothing but generic D:1 equipment. The joke is way past just stale and all this does now is serve to frustrate the player (especially in Orcs). Either remove these instances entirely or replace them with shops providing greater value.

In addition, there are many times where the player has empty armor slots and comes across an armor shop with nothing but body armor. The ratio of non-body armor to body armor should be increased so as to allow the player to use all of their slots. Armor slots are useless if nothing good generates to go in them and this will increase the chances of the player being able to find something useful. Currently it's just frustrating when a bunch of useless body armor spawns in a shop.

If you're wondering where my agenda is this time, I'm playing a Draconian of Gozag and dying a little on the inside right now.

[Rast]

Aux armor is supposed to be relatively rare. Especially anything better than +0 unbranded.

[PowerOfKaishin]

Aux armor is supposed to be relatively rare. Especially anything better than +0 unbranded.

Then why does nearly every race have 4 slots devoted to it?

[Siegurt]

Aux armor is supposed to be relatively rare. Especially anything better than +0 unbranded.

Then why does nearly every race have 4 slots devoted to it?

Because that gives you room for growth throughout the game?

It would be pretty boring if you always had full end game equipment by d3

[ion_frigate]

I feel like something could be said for vetoing shops where the total value of the items they contain is too low (ignoring fuzzing/greed, and likely a different threshold for different shop types). It by no means guarantees useful items in a shop (which is a good thing), but does cull the boring "D:1 trash" shops nicely.

[PlatinumSpider]

Another thing that sucks is getting a bazaar that only has food shops in it.

[LoopyLeo]

Well I for one thought everyone liked cruel jokes, isn't that why we play Crawl?

[PowerOfKaishin]

Aux armor is supposed to be relatively rare. Especially anything better than +0 unbranded.

Then why does nearly every race have 4 slots devoted to it?

Because that gives you room for growth throughout the game?

It would be pretty boring if you always had full end game equipment by d3

That's a pretty extreme example, don't you think? Nothing you find before lair is typically "endgame". If I'm not mistaken shop quality varies by dungeon level. Even in the incredibly unlikely case that a shop on D:3 generated not only decent equipment but endgame equipment, each piece would cost a lot and it would still take oodles of gold to pay for them all. Gold that, by the way, even Gozag worshipers won't have until maybe at the end of lair.

In theory this can already happen anyway, so that argument it moot. It's not like this situation is becoming a whole lot more likely with a change like this. It's not so wrong to want auxiliary armor out of an armor shop. If the game is gonna be nice enough to generate a shop, it can at least increase the chances of me getting what I want. That's what shops are for anyway.

Besides, the "growth" can come in the form of better equipment. That's already how it works for rings and armor currently. You get something decent and work your way up.

[Siegurt]

That's a pretty extreme example, don't you think? Nothing you find before lair is typically "endgame". If I'm not mistaken shop quality varies by dungeon level. Even in the incredibly unlikely case that a shop on D:3 generated not only decent equipment but endgame equipment, each piece would cost a lot and it would still take oodles of gold to pay for them all. Gold that, by the way, even Gozag worshipers won't have until maybe at the end of lair.

In theory this can already happen anyway, so that argument it moot. It's not like this situation is becoming a whole lot more likely with a change like this. It's not so wrong to want auxiliary armor out of an armor shop. If the game is gonna be nice enough to generate a shop, it can at least increase the chances of me getting what I want. That's what shops are for anyway.

Besides, the "growth" can come in the form of better equipment. That's already how it works for rings and armor currently. You get something decent and work your way up.

I wasn't responding to the original suggestion (of more aux armours in shops) just to the question about why we have slots devoted to it.

More slots gives flexibility and the possibility of interesting interactions between slots while allowing for a less one dimensional upgrade path.

I have no comment or opinion on whether we should generate more aux armours in shops. I do like the fact that it exists at all.

[PowerOfKaishin]

In any case I think we both can agree that crappy d:1-tiered armor shops need to go, go, go.

Though, funnily enough, Siegurt, improving the chance of aux armor spawning in shops actually makes these crappy shops useful to some minor extent.

[Siegurt]

In any case I think we both can agree that crappy d:1-tiered armor shops need to go, go, go.

Nope i don't agree.

[PowerOfKaishin]

You're a strange person then.

[Shard1697]

How so? I like those sorts of shops and sometimes it's worth it to buy a different basic body armor... and often 1 or 2 aux armors.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

I'm always baffled by adventures heading into the dungeon and they are not even wearing shoes. You can afford a sword, a body armour, a shield and a potion. Got enough cash for a basic pair of shoes? Nah.

[PowerOfKaishin]

How so? I like those sorts of shops and sometimes it's worth it to buy a different basic body armor... and often 1 or 2 aux armors.

Your desired armour commonly drops on the floor. That place sells leather, chain, ring and possibly plate. It's meh. I can see kind of where you're going with this but the chance of one of these shops spawning something you can't get on the floor easily (plate mail) is still very low.

The aux armours are fine if the shop is on d:3 to d:6 because it's bonus AC at the cost of gold. Completely reasonable.

In both cases when they spawn in depths and especially orc I get a little miffed. Completely useless in depths and a very low chance of actually being appreciated in orcs.

Also, he's a strange person because he didn't provide his reasoning and it wasn't obvious.

[CanOfWorms]

would you prefer the game to just spawn an abandoned shop instead

[PowerOfKaishin]

would you prefer the game to just spawn an abandoned shop instead

That's another thing. Why do these spawn? Just to troll the player?

[CanOfWorms]

abandoned shops are just features like fountains

[PowerOfKaishin]

abandoned shops are just features like fountains

Yeah but no one mistakes a fountain for anything good.

[ydeve]

Shops are yellow. Abandoned shops are gray. It's kinda hard to mistake one for another.

[PowerOfKaishin]

Shops are yellow. Abandoned shops are gray. It's kinda hard to mistake one for another.

Not everyone plays console. On tiles they are more similar but yes, they are still distinct. The big thing here is that it looks like a shop was going to be placed and then the RNG decided to roll the "just kidding" number and made it abandoned.

[ydeve]

Yes, human psychology is irrational.