Form Spell Size

[bcadren]

Suggestion: Make form spell size modifications a modifier instead of a direct change; this means a large creature turning into a dragon will make a larger dragon, while a Spriggan turning into a dragon will make a smaller one; etc. This is intended primarily as a buff for smaller transmuters who have to put up with all the same maluses of larger forms while the HP boost is smaller for them. Using a modifier instead of exact change means that a Spriggan's EV will not be hurt AS MUCH as it currently is when using dragon form.

Specifics of change:

• Dragon Form now gives -8 from current size.
  • Human-sized races go to the normal -8 size
  • Troll and centaur-sized races go to a larger -10 size
  • Spriggans and felids go to a smaller -4 size.
  • All sizes are still large enough to have a sizeable EV malus; but the smaller races (who already have lower HP) get a smaller malus.
  • This is trying to be more of a multiplicative malus and less of an absolute one.
• Ice Form gives a +0 (no change) to size.
• Hydra Form gives -4 from current size.
• Spider Form gives a +6 to current size.
  • Humans get normal size.
  • Trolls, etc. get felid size. (4)
  • Felids get to a size 10, unprecedentedly small.
    • This could be too small/too high EV and a cap may need to be set.
  • This again is trying to be a more multiplicative BOOST.

[le_nerd]

And when you are at it, have statue form speed malus be a modifier, not a set speed. Currently statueform spriggans move at 1.5 turns instead of 0.9.

[byrel]

This makes sense, though it would nerf the SpTm of Chei combo.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

This makes sense, though it would nerf the SpTm of Chei combo.

I'm not sure spriggans can take that huge of a nerf.

[byrel]

I was thinking about the nerf it would impose to Chei... Without Spriggans, who's going to play him?

[bcadren]

Well only responses are jokes.

This was mostly a tiny (IE low HP) races could use a boost in forms since their boosted HP is lower than the normal HP of +1 HP races, yet they have the same other defenses in form.

[byrel]

No, I was serious that it makes sense. I did then joke too... but I think this would even things out a bit. I want my SpTm to be mite sized when in spider form. And not giant mites either.

[shriash]

This sounds great! Primarily because, as you say, max HP is generally balanced against species size -- both in players, and in monsters. So, currently, an OgTm has huge benefits over a SpTm because they get small sizes without the usual downsides.

It sounds like this should apply to all mutations -- porkalator [tiny spriggan piggies and big fat troll bacon], fungus [tiny pixie mushrooms and giant troll-smelling fungi], and lignification [bonsai kittens and ogre oaks]

Doesn't really matter if we use this system for Bat Form or leave it as-is (because it's the only species-specific mutation I think).


Edit: I just spotted in another thread:

bonus trivia: shadow form and (in 0.15+) tree form keep your normal size.

So I guess this proposal is already implemented for those forms.

[greedo]

While I like the idea because it makes sense, from a gameplay perspective it actually makes things even more imbalanced. It gives small races, who are usually quite easy, more and better options, while doing the reverse to large races, who are usually quite hard.

[byrel]

While I like the idea because it makes sense, from a gameplay perspective it actually makes things even more imbalanced. It gives small races, who are usually quite easy, more and better options, while doing the reverse to large races, who are usually quite hard.

The goal of crawl is not to have all races equally easy.

Beyond that though, I disagree. Trolls are easy. Centaurs are easy. Minotaurs are easy. And yes, spriggans are easy. But I don't really find kobolds or halflings that easy; they aren't the hardest races, but not the easiest either. And large races already get an added bonus from Tm in the HP boost; a dragon form troll has 50% more HP and guaranteed 34% GDR. 50% more Hp is huge on a troll or ogre. Why can't spriggans benefit from the parallel 'even more evasive' end of the spectrum with the early-mid game forms?

[duvessa]

Minotaurs aren't large in any way. But yes, tr ce og are pretty overpowered. Na is awful though.