Spider Stomper
Posts: 224
Joined: Monday, 19th November 2012, 04:56
Tuesday, 4th November 2014, 03:26
Make ranged brand selection meaningful
Damage brands on (normal) launchers currently are: flaming, freezing, and velocity (not sure if speed normally generates??). If a player was to have a choice between equally enchanted launchers with each of these brands, the choice in every single circumstance ever would be velocity. This is because when combined with branded ammunition a launcher of velocity can at will become a launcher of velocity of flaming/freezing. Effectively, launchers of velocity are always better at dealing damage than launchers of other brands. This has always been true, but with the recent ranged rework I think that these mechanics require revisiting.
Now, I understand that a player is not necessarily going to have a free selection of launchers, making freezing and flaming brands still useful assuming limited supply of branded ammo. This is true. However, I think that melee weapons have set a good example in making brand selection meaningful. I don't think there is a single melee brand in a bad place. Protection or venom can be a godsend early game. Distortion has extremely powerful effects but is rare and dangerous. Pain is hilariously strong but requires significant skill investment. All of these facets introduce more meaningful choices into the process of choosing the "best" weapon for a character at a particular point in the game. There may be times where the player has two or three weapons that would all be very viable choices moving forward.
Contrast this with launchers. An experienced player carrying a flaming/freezing launcher who finds a launcher of velocity of similar enchantment (or lesser, likely) has no decision, because the clear optimal choice is to drop the elemental branded launcher on the ground and never think about it again because the launcher velocity gives all the elemental launcher did, except more damage.
Besides being inferior in raw damage, elemental launchers have another limitation caused by an old interaction. Missiles of flaming fired be a launcher of freezing (and vice versa) become plain arrows. This wastes both brands and naturally is not documented anywhere. I think that this is an artifact of "flavour over gameplay" design. You know what happens to those.
I have several proposed options to rectify the current undesirable situation. Unfortunately, I do not find any to be a complete solution, but they are likely easier to implement than a full ranged brand rework or something like that.
1. Ammo brand always overrides launcher brand.
This option is good because it already happens in several places (poison overriding flaming for example). This would require branded ammo to override the extra damage from velocity. This option is bad because this last effect would be difficult to communicate clearly.
2. Both brands "proc" concomitantly.
Both the launcher and ammo brand deal its respective damage, with matching launcher and ammo brands having amplified effect. This is interesting in that it allows all combinations of launchers and ammunition to work together, which seems like a good thing. However, it would be weird having a simultaneously freezing and burning attack. This option may be more difficult to implement as well.
3. Remove all ammo brands.
This is radical and removes some of the distinctions that launcher types have (unique ammo brands). It does fix the problem though. I don't think this is necessary, but I have seen discussion before on removing ammo all together.
4. Remove flame and frost ammo brands.
Most often flame and frost missiles are just "extra damage" brands and are in general the least interesting of branded ammo. This would make the dynamic between elemental and vorpal brand for launchers match more closely that found in melee weapons. Elemental launchers would deal more damage to unresistant foes, but velocity would be unresistable.
Please leave any ideas about improving the situation. As I said, I don't think mine are complete solutions (with the exception of #3, but that one may be undesirable for other reasons).
tl;dr: Launcher brands are in a poor state because velocity is strictly better than flaming/freezing in almost all situations and I think that this situation can be improved.
Now, I understand that a player is not necessarily going to have a free selection of launchers, making freezing and flaming brands still useful assuming limited supply of branded ammo. This is true. However, I think that melee weapons have set a good example in making brand selection meaningful. I don't think there is a single melee brand in a bad place. Protection or venom can be a godsend early game. Distortion has extremely powerful effects but is rare and dangerous. Pain is hilariously strong but requires significant skill investment. All of these facets introduce more meaningful choices into the process of choosing the "best" weapon for a character at a particular point in the game. There may be times where the player has two or three weapons that would all be very viable choices moving forward.
Contrast this with launchers. An experienced player carrying a flaming/freezing launcher who finds a launcher of velocity of similar enchantment (or lesser, likely) has no decision, because the clear optimal choice is to drop the elemental branded launcher on the ground and never think about it again because the launcher velocity gives all the elemental launcher did, except more damage.
Besides being inferior in raw damage, elemental launchers have another limitation caused by an old interaction. Missiles of flaming fired be a launcher of freezing (and vice versa) become plain arrows. This wastes both brands and naturally is not documented anywhere. I think that this is an artifact of "flavour over gameplay" design. You know what happens to those.
I have several proposed options to rectify the current undesirable situation. Unfortunately, I do not find any to be a complete solution, but they are likely easier to implement than a full ranged brand rework or something like that.
1. Ammo brand always overrides launcher brand.
This option is good because it already happens in several places (poison overriding flaming for example). This would require branded ammo to override the extra damage from velocity. This option is bad because this last effect would be difficult to communicate clearly.
2. Both brands "proc" concomitantly.
Both the launcher and ammo brand deal its respective damage, with matching launcher and ammo brands having amplified effect. This is interesting in that it allows all combinations of launchers and ammunition to work together, which seems like a good thing. However, it would be weird having a simultaneously freezing and burning attack. This option may be more difficult to implement as well.
3. Remove all ammo brands.
This is radical and removes some of the distinctions that launcher types have (unique ammo brands). It does fix the problem though. I don't think this is necessary, but I have seen discussion before on removing ammo all together.
4. Remove flame and frost ammo brands.
Most often flame and frost missiles are just "extra damage" brands and are in general the least interesting of branded ammo. This would make the dynamic between elemental and vorpal brand for launchers match more closely that found in melee weapons. Elemental launchers would deal more damage to unresistant foes, but velocity would be unresistable.
Please leave any ideas about improving the situation. As I said, I don't think mine are complete solutions (with the exception of #3, but that one may be undesirable for other reasons).
tl;dr: Launcher brands are in a poor state because velocity is strictly better than flaming/freezing in almost all situations and I think that this situation can be improved.
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