Tartarus Sorceror
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Crypt Cleanser
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Hirsch I wrote:Also,are you calling me a power-gamer? this is highly offensive! now excuse me, I have to go back to my GrBe game, that I savescummed until trog gave me a Vampiric +9 claymore.
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Dungeon Master
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Hirsch I wrote:right now, picking every single glove, boot, cloak, headgear and light armour in the dungeon and wearing-iding it is a boring and riskless activity, that can give your character up to +11 AC, if wearing leather. considering such activities contradict the game design philosophy, I suggest all plain pieces of armor are generated unenchanted.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Barkeep
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and into wrote:I think the idea is that, if it has +s on it, it should be glowing/runed. It should also be glowing/runed if it has minuses, in which case it will also be cursed.
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Tomb Titivator
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WalkerBoh wrote:Did the change actually do this? It looks like PF's commit just makes it so that all plain equipment is now +0 and nothing else is changed.
Dungeon Master
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DracheReborn wrote:WalkerBoh wrote:Did the change actually do this? It looks like PF's commit just makes it so that all plain equipment is now +0 and nothing else is changed.
Indeed, yes. Be careful what you wish for, guys!
Vestibule Violator
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DracheReborn wrote:From the tediousness argument, trying on a zillion +1/+2 glowing leather armour isn't that much better than status quo, so I think PF's version is correct.
Vaults Vanquisher
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Hurkyl wrote:DracheReborn wrote:From the tediousness argument, trying on a zillion +1/+2 glowing leather armour isn't that much better than status quo, so I think PF's version is correct.
Definitely, although someone suggested using an alternate adjective "enchanted" for non-ego non +0 items.
Shoals Surfer
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Bim wrote:Having poison resist in an area you know you probably won't need it, or a +2/3/4 is an interesting decision.
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nilsbloodaxe wrote:Bim wrote:Having poison resist in an area you know you probably won't need it, or a +2/3/4 is an interesting decision.
I don't see the interesting decision, you take the AC. Maybe if you know you need it it becomes interesting, but if you probably don't?
Barkeep
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Bim wrote:Well lets say you have +4 plate armor and a +0 plate of rPois for lair. Yeah AC is probably the way to go, but poison resist could be useful as well.
DracheReborn wrote:+4 body armour has a good chance to be glowing or runed though.
Vaults Vanquisher
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and into wrote:There have been times where I felt I had decisions to make (i.e., choices with no clear best answer) between +0 foo with some ego, and vanilla +2 foo. But it doesn't happen that often. By contrast, so long as your foo was +0, it was basically always best play to try on every piece of non-randart foo you come across, assuming you have at least one ?remove curse. So yeah I like this change.
Crypt Cleanser
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HisMajestyBOB wrote:If there's a desire to keep the basic equipment with +1 and +2, but remove the tedium (which I support), you could have all basic equipment show their enchantment level by default. So you can tell right away if that leather armor is +0, +1, or +2 without picking it up or wearing it.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Swamp Slogger
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reaver wrote:If "plain" means "neither glowing or runed" then yes that's what happened. It's a difficulty boost but removing item destruction/weight etc. were player buffs, and that didn't stop those from being implemented. If the difficulty becomes too extreme either way some other arbitrary tweak like another XP nerf could happen.DracheReborn wrote:WalkerBoh wrote:Did the change actually do this? It looks like PF's commit just makes it so that all plain equipment is now +0 and nothing else is changed.
Indeed, yes. Be careful what you wish for, guys!
Dungeon Master
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Sjohara wrote:Um, since ego aux armor is very rare, let alone ego aux armor with decent plusses, doesn't this change mean that players will almost never have a reasonable opportunity to use an enchant armor scroll on body armor again, rendering dragon armor in particular nigh-unwearable? Right now you can easily get most of your aux plusses from floor loot eventually, but with this change in place you'd be extremely lucky to get even +2 out of 8 by the time you hit the Vaults.
Crypt Cleanser
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Siegurt wrote:Well, there's not no-risk, in particular those items could be cursed and have negative enchantments, that's in fact the point of the ID mini game, to force you to chose between a risk activity that could benefit you, and non-risky behavior that has less benefits associated.
Since there are no negative armour egos (well, aside from unrands of ponderousness, which come pre-id'd) negative enchantment levels are the only thing providing this risk. Negative enchantment levels require non-id'd ness to be a thing (otherwise there's no point to them at all)
Now you could argue that this risk/reward balance isn't interesting enough to make un-id'd armour (and my extension negative enchantments) a worthwhile part of the game, but personally I like it being around (in the same way that I like mutation potions being a thing)
Quazifuji wrote:I thought only glowing/runed/artefact items generated cursed and plain ones were always safe. Is this incorrect and that even trying on, say, some plain non-glowing/runed gloves in hopes that they're +1 or +2 can give you a cursed one?
Zot Zealot
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Dungeon Master
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Sar wrote:Plain aux armour in this case should probably show its +0 enchantment without ID, otherwise it's a spoiler - admittedly, very minor one.
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