Mines Malingerer
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Formicid Tweak: Allow Berserk ( minus hasting)
Off Topic : Also on formicids. They have 4 hands so why can they not wield 2 pairs of gloves or 4 rings?
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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TheArcanist wrote:If you allow formicids to berserk sans haste, it would mean they'd come out of the berserk sans slow. I don't know about you, but the real reason why I usually hesitate to berserk all the time isn't food cost, it's because walking around slowed is usually a bad idea.
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Finerminer wrote:Well Boh, in the " read this before posting " it gives an example about _ is overpowered...and I think _ would help. So I think it is a design concern. If under/over powered concerns were never addressed I think we would still have summons off screen killing entire floors of enemies.
Mines Malingerer
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Mines Malingerer
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johlstei wrote:Huh? The slow is the main reason not to berserk in every encounter - there are plenty of chunks to eat all over.
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Finerminer wrote:The slow has never stopped me. The Exhaust on the other hand has stopped me in several occasions. Even if the slow is stopping me, I just haste wand up to normal speed.
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Finerminer wrote:Edit: your criticism is hardly constructive. This is my first post and it would've been nice to see some actual feedback instead of "What you said doesn't really make much sense, seems pointless."
Mines Malingerer
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Finerminer wrote:The slow has never stopped me. The Exhaust on the other hand has stopped me in several occasions. Even if the slow is stopping me, I just haste wand up to normal speed.
Exhaust does literally nothing except prevent you from berserking again. Slow is a crippling status effect that can outright kill you, and the only way to counteract it is to "just" use up charges of the best item in the game. Without Slow, berserk has no downside worth mentioning!
I have no idea why Formicid is even mentioned in this thread since this would not actually buff them. They would still be worse than almost every other race by exactly the same margin for exactly the same reasons. FoBe is the only Fo that significantly benefits anyway, and FoBe is already easily the best Fo.
Mines Malingerer
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WalkerBoh wrote:Finerminer wrote:Edit: your criticism is hardly constructive. This is my first post and it would've been nice to see some actual feedback instead of "What you said doesn't really make much sense, seems pointless."
It's pretty constructive criticism actually. It's called game design discussion. You made a proposal, and I concisely told you why it doesn't meet the design goals. I even explained why in detail the second time. I'm not sure what more you expect from feedback...
It would be more constructive of you to actually address the concern I brought up rather than dismissing them out of hand.
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Mines Malingerer
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asdu wrote:So you're suggesting that formicids should have on-demand might and a 50% hp boost for the cost of half a chunk's worth of satiation? But I guess that according to your logic, that's already the case for all races, since the slow doesn't actually matter.
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bcadren wrote:I find it weird that Berserk (supposedly a mental condition) is blocked by stasis at all. Clarity, yes I understand...but Stasis? The haste portion of it is supposedly natural and non-magic haste and the slow portion is also supposedly natural. I'm all for it working normally. I do admit this would open the door on Poison-based Slow/Paralyze affecting those with stasis (Wasp; but I'm fine with that too [just make sure those are resisted with rPois instead]).
tl;dr: Potion/Poison-based Slow/Paralysis and Berserk shouldn't be blocked by Stasis. Poison-slow/paralysis should stick to rPois; berserk should stick to clarity.
Mines Malingerer
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bcadren wrote:I find it weird that Berserk (supposedly a mental condition) is blocked by stasis at all. Clarity, yes I understand...but Stasis? The haste portion of it is supposedly natural and non-magic haste and the slow portion is also supposedly natural. I'm all for it working normally. I do admit this would open the door on Poison-based Slow/Paralyze affecting those with stasis (Wasp; but I'm fine with that too [just make sure those are resisted with rPois instead]).
tl;dr: Potion/Poison-based Slow/Paralysis and Berserk shouldn't be blocked by Stasis. Poison-slow/paralysis should stick to rPois; berserk should stick to clarity.
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Patashu wrote:Are you proposing this to solve some game balance issue you have noticed, or 'because realism'?
Mines Malingerer
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WalkerBoh wrote:You guys are getting way too caught up in what things are named. The way it works is you choose what effects an item will have based on how you want it to affect gameplay, and after that you choose an appropriate name.
You don't pick a name for an item and try to then design all the effects so they fit the name regardless of how it affects the game. This is completely backwards.
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Mines Malingerer
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WalkerBoh wrote:I would personally rather change the name of stasis if anything, since it is way more confusing. I wouldn't expect an item named stasis to prevent paralysis, for instance. I think Berserk is perfectly clear and describes how you would expect the effect to work.
Mines Malingerer
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duvessa wrote:amulet of resist slowing
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Finerminer wrote:Off Topic : Also on formicids. They have 4 hands so why can they not wield 2 pairs of gloves or 4 rings?
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WalkerBoh wrote:You guys are getting way too caught up in what things are named. The way it works is you choose what effects an item will have based on how you want it to affect gameplay, and after that you choose an appropriate name.
You don't pick a name for an item and try to then design all the effects so they fit the name regardless of how it affects the game. This is completely backwards.
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Patashu wrote:Here's a good example of how splitting slow/paralyse into physical and magical could get confusing.
Currently starcursed masses can paralyse you with a psychic chorus of blasts. Is that physical or magical? (They're not casting a -spell-, per say.)
What about Rupert's paralysis? It's flavoured to be a shout of terror e.g. it is a physical/mental effect, but game-mechnically it is a spell. Is that physical or magical?
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Patashu wrote:What about Rupert's paralysis? It's flavoured to be a shout of terror e.g. it is a physical/mental effect, but game-mechnically it is a spell. Is that physical or magical?
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Unless your definition of "appropriate" includes this, then both approaches must be used - the design of the object must surely be first based on the overall game design, but the name and description of the object must also lead players to correctly intuit its behavior (and even the behavior of similar objects) in most circumstances. If this is not true, it's bad design, unless the game is meant to be played with a rulebook/manual/spoilers.
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WalkerBoh wrote:Unless your definition of "appropriate" includes this, then both approaches must be used - the design of the object must surely be first based on the overall game design, but the name and description of the object must also lead players to correctly intuit its behavior (and even the behavior of similar objects) in most circumstances. If this is not true, it's bad design, unless the game is meant to be played with a rulebook/manual/spoilers.
This is... exactly what I said?
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Intuitiveness is not a design goal. You can tell by the fact that Crawl is not intuitive and makes no effort to become more intuitive.
Minor design goals wrote: clarity (playability without need for spoilers)
internal consistency
Temple Termagant
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Intuitiveness is not a design goal. You can tell by the fact that Crawl is not intuitive and makes no effort to become more intuitive.
The Manual wrote:N. Philosophy (pas de faq)
In a nutshell: This game aims to be a tactical fantasy-themed dungeon crawl. We strive for strategy being a concern, too, and for exquisite gameplay and interface. However, don't expect plots or quests.
You may ponder about the wisdom of certain design decisions of Crawl. This section tries to explain some of them. It could also be of interest if you are used to other roguelikes and want a bit of background on the differences. Prime mainstays of Crawl development are the following, most of which are explained in more detail below. Note that many of these date back to Linley's first versions.
Major design goals
challenging and random gameplay, with skill making a real difference
meaningful decisions (no no-brainers)
avoidance of grinding (no scumming)
gameplay supporting painless interface and newbie support
Minor design goals
clarity (playability without need for spoilers)
internal consistency
replayability (using branches, species, playing styles and gods)
proper use of out of depth monsters
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DickhardLionheart wrote:What you're proposing first works for completely or mostly abstract games, e.g. board games. Video games that have realistic elements, and that are supposed to be playable intuitively (eg. adventure games), without explicit knowledge of the rules (ie. spoilers), need to have their internal objects and gameplay elements named in such a way that their behavior is mostly intutively understandable, that players can at least for the most part guess what they're supposed to do. It's a trivial consequence of intuitiveness as a design goal.
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DickhardLionheart wrote:It may have been what you intended, however you only wrote of a one way relationship where you come up with an object and then give it a somewhat appropriate name. That ignores the latter part that when you're then expanding the game and linking it to other objects you should indeed expand and adjust its behavior according to its theme/name/appearance if the goal is intutiveness, or add descriptors that make it obvious it does not behave as you would expect it to.
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XuaXua wrote:Amulet of Stability
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Description text for amulet of stasis wrote:An amulet meticulously constructed with magical wards to block magical and physiological effects that would otherwise teleport, slow, haste, or paralyse its wearer. While the amulet is effective against most translocular magic, plane shifts such as banishment are beyond its ability to block.
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archaeo wrote:Dare I bring up Finesse, the other god power Fo can't use because of stasis?
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goo wrote:what i'm wondering is why can't formicids use large rocks anymore in trunk? did they really need that nerf?
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