New Species: Water Nymph

[snow]

I wanted a species that plays much differently than any other.

1. They have human like HP and MP. The minus-HP-plus-gimmick species were fun at first but now they're just getting ridiculous.
2. They're made of water. This means when they berserk their water boils instead of their blood. Yes they can berserk. And heal. And teleport. New species don't have to make humans seem OP.
3. Since they're made of water they have great flexibility and suffer no evasion penalties in regards to casting, dodging, stealth and so on. Have fun casting in that D:1 plate you find.
4. They have an innate charm (enslavement) ability that drops in effectiveness based on your evasion penalty. This ability is good enough that you don't always want to wear that D:1 plate.

Okay... so what's the catch?

They can't eat and don't hunger over time. However, instead of hungering from spells or berserking they evaporate (rot).
They have terrible, terrible aptitudes and level very slowly.
We're talking some of the worst apts in the game. I'm sure with the right numbers it can easily be balanced.
If needed their resistances could be tweaked too but I'm not sure if instantly dying to a kobold with the right wand is fair.

God choice:

The Water nymph's charm ability is greatly based on their dex to the point where going Chei would let you charm just about anything.
They recieve bonuses in water so they're good with Fedhas.

Gameplay:

I know the idea is very rough right now and could use some work but from the heavy armoured enchanter, to the boiling berserker, to the light armoured charmer of Chei, this can be a very flexible species with a lot of potential.

[Patashu]

So if every time you cast a spell you rot a bit, how are you meant to play a book start as a water nymph?

[Igxfl]

Pick up a weapon and melee straight away?
I'd do Nymph^Trog evey time.

[Leafsnail]

Is there any limit to the charm ability or can you just use it constantly?

[KittenInMyCerealz]

you say they suffer no evasion penalty, yet their charm gets worse based on your evasion penalty, which means it never gets worse.

[Patashu]

you say they suffer no evasion penalty, yet their charm gets worse based on your evasion penalty, which means it never gets worse.

The charm gets worse based on what the evasion penalty WOULD be

[snow]

The rot is based on the would be hunger you would take for things like spells or god abilities (including berserk). If your spells are hungerless they don't rot you. You can cure rot with potions and such. The rotting rate can be increased or decreased to be balanced... but I was thing along the lines of n% chance of gaining 1 point of rot where n% increases with the hunger cost of the action. If n is over 100 then there's a chance of 2 points of rot and so on.

The rational for the charm ability being less effective while wearing heavy armor is, basically, that the nymph has less skin showing.

Leafsnail, the charm ability would have either a hunger/rot cost, magic cost, or both... but you could spam it if you'd like. Right now I'm thinking it's a single-target-smite, though it could possibly be a non-spammable full LOS breath weapon. The later would be harder to balance though... remember, it has to be VERY good or else no one would use it and just wear the evasion penalty free plates all the time.

[TeshiAlair]

Sounds like "Fun"

I think spammable charm doesn't lead to that much interesting gameplay, and it forces them to suck in every other way. What about passive Mesmerize that also has a semi-silence: Mesmerized enemies seek to melee you, so they have a reduced chance of shouting, spellcasting, and using ranged weapons.

[dck]

I think hp rot is pretty annoying as it is and would be pretty annoying as a racial mechanic if not easily fixable like in Gh's case. This is mostly because HP is important and you don't want to lose it if not necessary, so pairing this with hungerlessness means you just arbitrarily make hunger costs really important and really annoying because they are now draining an important resource instead of the usual meaningless one.

I also think the only really slow levelling race that is improved by that exp apt is Dg. Leveling up is an important milestone for players, granted it's mostly psychological importance for most races, but it's still a clear sign of progress being achieved and a reward on its own.
What's weird is you bring up low hp races being ridiculous, but your race would have pretty low hp related to its depth, assuming the exp apt would be as low as you say.

Regarding the encumbrance-ignoring mechanic, why? Armour is interesting as it is and provides interesting choices every game, and encumbrance is a factor in this. Super-enslavement would indeed be very powerful, but some people already don't use enslavement because they find it annoying and super-enslavement woud be tied to a rot cost for this race, making it further unappealing to a larger amount of people. So those people who decide to ignore this racial ability just get to use every armour with no further thought?
I don't know, encumbrance-less plate sounds strong, but I don't think it's a particularly good idea. It just makes most characters of this race the same in terms of armour choice because what reason could you have to not wear encumbrance-less plate given how common it is?

Similarly, the apts would have to be truly atrocious to make a real dent on the race because they don't need a lot of defensive skills (so that exp can go somewhere else) and if they were, that would not even really mean they would balance the intrinsic abilities of the race frankly, it'd just mean characters become further similar because they try to choose good low exp options for offense (defense can just be a free plate of huge EV with no skills) every time.

All things said, the thing is conceptually sound at a basic level, I just don't think it's a great idea to tie things to hp rot or to ignore half of the armour system of the game.

[snow]

The rotting from hunger could be completely removed if it's found to be annoying... though I doubt it will be. You could play perfectly fine with using berserk or high level spells sparingly... you know, as if you were a spriggan or something. Just instead of chomping down on that pile if 20 rations you're chomping down on that pile of 20 curing potions. I mean God forbid if hunger costs even slightly matter strategically or tactically right?

As for ignoring half the armor mechanics... most viable combinations just use a robe anyway. There's a strong community desire for a heavy armored caster that is not vastly inferior to a robed caster. The charm ability is mainly there as an innate ability that actually matters past D:1, makes sense thematically, and gives an alternative light armored route for the species. It could do ANYTHING really, as long as it fills those 3 requirements.

Finally, the slow leveling and apts are just there for balance. They can be tweaked as the species design progresses. As long as HP and MP stay at human level and the species doesn't degrade into another low-HP-plus-gimmick disaster then I'm fine with anything.

[dck]

I don't see where you're coming from with most viable combinations just using a robe. Robes are great, sure, so are leather armours and rings mails.

Lower than zero exp apt with human hp is already a "low-HP-plus-gimmick disaster"

[and into]

Completely removing encumbrance isn't good because it removes any difference whatsoever. However, *reduced* encumbrance could maybe work as a species trait. (That would probably have to be tied to some other kind of penalty/mechanic for it to be interesting though.)

A different idea for how to represent "fluidity" in terms of equipment would be to give the nymph fewer equipment slots, but ones that can be used to equip whatever items you want. Obviously you would need rules/limits to prevent someone from just stacking three plate armors for instant 30+ AC, but the idea of variable equipment slots is a major unexplored design niche. (The idea came up with respect to a jelly-like species proposal about a month or six weeks ago, but I could see it working for a water-themed species as well.)

[File200]

Completely removing encumbrance isn't good because it removes any difference whatsoever. However, *reduced* encumbrance could maybe work as a species trait. (That would probably have to be tied to some other kind of penalty/mechanic for it to be interesting though.)

A different idea for how to represent "fluidity" in terms of equipment would be to give the nymph fewer equipment slots, but ones that can be used to equip whatever items you want. Obviously you would need rules/limits to prevent someone from just stacking three plate armors for instant 30+ AC, but the idea of variable equipment slots is a major unexplored design niche. (The idea came up with respect to a jelly-like species proposal about a month or six weeks ago, but I could see it working for a water-themed species as well.)

Maybe the "Fluidity" ability applies only to jewelry? You have five "Body" slots which can be split between rings, amulets boots and gloves however you want. I don't think nymphs should be wearing heavy armor, because it seems like they would lack the solid form needed to hold it. Maybe nymphs are sort of like octopodes, fewer armor slots in exchange for item slot versatility?

[Hurkyl]

Obviously you would need rules/limits to prevent someone from just stacking three plate armors for instant 30+ AC,

Make encumbrance the sum of all individual slots. It doesn't prevent wearing three plate armours, but it gives you a pretty big penalty for doing so! Assuming that you don't pair this with too much reduced encumbrance.

[Lasty]

Other people have already done a pretty solid job of covering the mechanical issues here (aside from the suggestion that with large Dex boosts you would enslave all monsters), but as I've mentioned before, I am against creating an explicitly-gendered player species, particularly one that references gender in a fairly gender-normative way ("sexy/alluring is a female trait").

[dck]

(it is too soon to have this thread again so let's not)