Snake Sneak
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Does vaults 5 really have to be so evil?
- For this message the author AzuredreamsXT has received thanks:
- Klown
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Snake Sneak
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Snake Sneak
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Snake Sneak
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AzuredreamsXT wrote: What would really be cool IMO is a new branch with a rune, if the devs feel stair-stealing in V5 should remain in the game.
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Dungeon Master
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Snake Sneak
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TeshiAlair wrote:I definitely think that more rune choices are better than less, especially given that arguably a full third of them (hells and Pan) require the stars being aligned to go for in a reasonable manner for the average player.
Abyss Ambulator
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Abyss Ambulator
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Blades Runner
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Kalma wrote:I used to always stair-dance it (successfully). It's a lot more fun now that you can't.
dpeg wrote:Not saying it's the best way to approach this, but it Vault:5 is considered hard enough that people starting for their third rune elsewhere (Slime and Abyss, I guess), then that's an interesting side effect.
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Vaults Vanquisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Leafsnail wrote:There's a difference between fastest and safest.
Abyss Ambulator
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dpeg wrote:duvessa: Sure. I think there are exceptions but for the large majority, silver should be rune three. (I recall a game where slimy was the second one, and not for showing off or as a challenge... was something about particular monsters, and gear/skills were just right for Sime).
I actually have some sympathy for an elven rune, but that's a strictly private opinion at this point.
The pressing point right now is the status of stair dancing: when I learned Crawl, everyone seemed to be stair dancing V:8, and was advocating to do so (including tips for good staircases). Now, and this is years later, some of you really good players tell me that stair dancing was a subpar strategy anyway (in most cases, I assume as unspoken qualifier). In my more recent games that made it to V:5, I have used mapping+ctele, whenever I could (and with good results), and I have also done the rim runs.
It's not clear at all to me how these three compare in success, and whether that actually depends on tools and build (would be nice if so). If stair dancing was marginalised already, then it indeed makes no sense to punish it. Then again, in limited form it is still possible. (There are very many 100% opinions flung across the board, which makes it harder for me to assess what's going on.) In any case, I'm also curious whether we were misinformed five years ago (when stair dancing was all the rage), whether groupthinking was going on back then, and/or is going on now, or whether the V:5 threat has changed sufficiently to make stair dancing less reliable than it used to be.
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Zot Zealot
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Anyway, it's good to remember that there's more than one way to play games. Typically any game has the "right" way to play, right up until someone comes up with something that blows away the old "right" way to do it. And then that's the new "right" way, and anyone who says different must be an idiot. It's usually one of those idiots who define the metagame by doing something new.
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Blades Runner
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crate wrote:2) getting hit by mark is dramatically more dangerous than actually getting paralysed
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commit 63f152f1fce206446bb886867570b3eb93dd6af2
Author: Steve Melenchuk <smelenchuk@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Mar 11 16:46:59 2014 -0600
Allow players to continue traversing stairs if they get sealed halfway.
This was never intentional, by all indications.
commit 83c5e769d0f02cc25f5a322a9f3a3e965837f661
Author: elliptic <hyperelliptical@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Mar 11 18:50:51 2014 -0400
Decrease Mark duration by 25%.
(Numbers also tweaked slightly to make them rounder after the 25% reduction.)
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Hirsch I wrote:Also,are you calling me a power-gamer? this is highly offensive! now excuse me, I have to go back to my GrBe game, that I savescummed until trog gave me a Vampiric +9 claymore.
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