Hushed wrote:KoboldLord, I'm afraid I'll just have to disagree, dispel undead is mitigatable. It's not smite targeted, and you don't have to approach each situation in lich form. I guess this conversation to me seems most telling about differences in viewpoints and philosophies approaching spells in game design.
Of course it's possible to mitigate! I included a means of mitigation in the post you're responding to! The hunger clock is also possible to mitigate, and those means include several independent ways that are all more easily accessible than Necromutation.
Hushed wrote:To me spells should be tactical decisions, part of an arsenal for how you overcome obstacles. Necromutation is being treated as a cornerstone for game strategy, like how you treat the hunger clock. That is game changing.
The only people who treat Necromutation as the cornerstone of post-endgame strategy are the people who have never played the post-endgame. Necromutation is desirable for approximately three types of characters:
#1: Characters who have concentrated on necromancy from chargen or the Temple, and have used it as the main component of their strategy the entire time.
#2: Characters who have concentrated on transmutations from chargen, and have used it as the main component of their strategy the entire time.
#3: Characters grinding to clear a Ziggurat, because xp investment is no longer an opportunity cost.
So we have three backgrounds (transmuter, stalker, necromancer) and one magic goddess (Kiku) that put you on a track toward where you're actually likely to make efficient use of Necromutation in a normal 15-Rune game. For everybody else, Necromutation is too far toward the back-end of two skill trees that basically don't synergize at all until that point.
This is actually fair and appropriate. Contrast Haste, Deflect Missiles, or Controlled Blink, which are good enough to make nearly every semi-casting build make a u-turn if necessary to pick them up as soon as possible.
Hushed wrote:Looking back I wish the conversation had focussed on the cool new forms I suggested rather than on the fact that I wouldn't mind if necromutation disappeared or changed.
I agree that there should be a flying form, but I'm not sure I'd agree that the sky beast is a good monster to copy. Power roulette is kind of annoying, and it encourages annoying playing practices if only one associated power is the one you want at any given time.
Jelly form I don't like. Being required to eat items to heal is meaningless if you can just let the form expire, and resistances across the board with no equipment makes it a mediocre shooting platform and not much else.
Your version of demon form is probably usable, but I think most players would just stick with Blade Hands instead because it's 'good enough' and allows for most equipment slots. If it was also level 5, I'm not sure anyone would bother with the spell slots just for the auxiliary attacks alone. Chaos brand is also a crippling drawback.
How about a Frogshape spell? It's traditional for casters to be able to turn people into frogs. The player-frog would have felid item restrictions, an activated ability that flicks out a tongue and blinks a small monster closer, a small unarmed combat buff, and increased movement speed in water. Slotted in at level 1, so Fulsome Distillation can be removed from the Book of Changes without leaving transmuters without anything at all to do at level 1.