Nerf trunk wands

[twelwe]

New behavior is always a fun topic! Wands now identify when you zap them, no matter how ``visible`` the ``beam`` it projects! You don't even need sInv to see now that you just zapped a wand of confusion at a wall. A release or two ago you were required to `r`ead a book before it would identify. The devs, after long discussion no doubt, concluded that this was unnecessary and presented no meaningful choice thus the mechanic was scrapped. Wands are not like jewellery, the (undesirable) ones can be dropped without consequence, and the only difference between auto-iding them on pickup and the mechanic in place now is 1 wand charge. Therefore, it is my proposal to nerf every wand by 1 charge and have them all auto-id on pickup.

[Arrhythmia]

Just auto-ID everything.

[reaver]

I already brought this up in ##crawl-dev, but nothing happened. kilobyte stated that you could zap and unID'd wand at a monster to not waste the charge, and there was enough choice in this option to keep the current ID scheme. MarvinPA also gave this reason in the commit which originally removed wand ID tricks. (Second sentence in the paragraph). elliptic agreed with me that this was enough of an edge case to be not worth preserving, but nothing came of it.

Originally I thought this was a lost cause for now, but now that I've reread the logs I think another push might get the change through. Here's the full discussion:

  Code:

20:02:01 <reaver_> Can we just make wands spawn identified? (Maybe with one less charge if that's a balance feature). After MarvinPA's identification change there's zero reason not to zap them at thin air if there aren't any monster around.
20:02:02 <Sequell> reaver_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
20:02:33 <tenofswords> identified on pick-up like books
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20:04:12 <elliptic> identified on pick-up like books with -random2(2) charges on generation was my suggestion
20:05:01 <SamB> elliptic: that sounds kind of odd
20:05:08 <elliptic> SamB: why?
20:05:15 <SamB> why 2?
20:05:19 <|amethyst> SamB:  0 or 1
20:05:22 <reaver_> Now that it's been suggested, I definitely agree identified on pick-up is the best way to go. I don't know how many much to change the charges.
20:05:24 <SamB> oh
20:05:37 <|amethyst> randomup2
20:05:42 <|amethyst> randomup2butnotincluding
20:05:47 <elliptic> random2(2) is the right amount to equalize things if you get two wands of each type
20:05:54 <SamB> I guess I've been thinking about dice too much
20:06:43 <SamB> or we could simplify things and use random2(1)
20:06:45 <kilobyte> you tend to find more than two wands of each type (other than HW/hasting in a 3-runer) in a game
20:06:51 <kilobyte> SamB: yeah :p
20:07:08 <elliptic> kilobyte: right, so it would be a slight nerf in the long run but a slight buff earlier on
20:07:30 <elliptic> I'm also fine with not compensating at all
20:08:17 <reaver_> elliptic: Is your charge suggestion just for random generation or also for recharging?
20:08:20 <elliptic> the ID on pickup is the important part... reaver_ is right that you always want to zap them at air now
20:08:25 <elliptic> reaver_: just random generation
20:08:42 <elliptic> recharging adds to the current charges, so it isn't really relevant here
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20:15:04 <kilobyte> there's just one wand that makes your situation noticeably worse
20:15:18 <SamB> hasting?
20:15:21 <SamB> invis?
20:15:32 <SamB> or did you mean to zap at nothing
20:15:48 <kilobyte> sometimes also HW when the monster is already damaged, invis if you can't retreat or polymorph
20:16:09 <kilobyte> but in most cases, just hasting
20:16:16 <|amethyst> enslavement if you worship ely
20:16:25 <SamB> well you can NOTICE the monster being invisible well enough
20:16:34 <|amethyst> though it's fine against a sole monster
20:16:38 <|amethyst> or a tough one
20:17:10 <reaver_> kilobyte: |amethyst: You guys realize wand ID when you zap them at the air now.
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20:17:57 <reaver_> %git c7ef5b85fb05ef13598df80dda79916cf4ec28bc
20:17:57 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.14-a0-330-gc7ef5b8: Always identify wands on zap 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7ef5b85fb05
20:18:03 <|amethyst> reaver_:  right, I think kilobyte's arguing that it can make sense to zap at a monster anyway currently, so you get some effect
20:18:14 <|amethyst> rather than completely wasting the charge
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20:18:47 <reaver_> |amethyst: I guess that makes a bit of sense.
20:18:59 <|amethyst> then again, if it can't kill you when hasted, it's probably not something worth wasting a wand charge on anyway
20:20:40 <kilobyte> hasting is pretty rare, so I'd say the chances you'd need to teleport are negligible enough to make not wasting a charge of a good beam wand outweight it IMO
20:21:06 <reaver_> MarvinPA did say in the commit: "Identifying after one zap keeps the slight tradeoff of using up a charge if you choose not to scroll-ID.", although elliptic just said "you always want to zap them at the air now."
20:21:44 <kilobyte> I zap it at the air, that just happens to have a tough monster on the other side :p
20:22:31 <kilobyte> because you're on the average better off doing so
20:23:05 <tenofswords> ??optimal
20:23:05 <Sequell> optimal[1/2]: what do you even mean, turn optimal? time optimal? resource optimal? safety optimal? opportunity costs easily make this term mean nothing.
20:24:32 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1216-g79ee531: Make the clua console available outside wizmode. 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 9+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=79ee531a0e06
20:25:02 <tenofswords> the entry could probably use "thought optimal"
20:25:09 <kilobyte> <3
20:25:14 <bh> MarvinPA: thank you for removing the wand minigame
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20:25:38 <elliptic> kilobyte: I'd far far rather know what wands I have at my disposal for the next actual dangerous monster, rather than use a charge on a monster that is harmless enough that I don't mind invis/hasting/wasting a turn
20:25:38 <|amethyst> identification falls one category at a time
20:25:59 <bh> next up: item destruction
20:26:06 <kilobyte> there's but one element of the minigame left: when you have id-ed all but one wand
20:26:26 <tenofswords> isn't "id'd all but one" something for every category anyway
20:26:39 <elliptic> that's a problem with other consumable types also though, yeah (would be good to fix it sometime)
20:26:50 <bh> With the monster summoner nerf, should we adjust their experience modifiers downward?
20:27:08 <bh> kilobyte: once while playing a TSO follower I realized that my only un-ID'd scroll was torment :D
20:27:24 <kilobyte> I have a WIP commit that puts items into categories: for example, "scroll", "scroll that said nothing happens", "scroll that takes an item", identifying the last one
20:27:38 <kilobyte> but, it breaks autopickup of jewels identified this way
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20:28:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  jewellery autopickup tricks are already broken because of monsters
20:28:04 <elliptic> yeah, that autopickup hack is annoying
20:28:10 <elliptic> they are also broken with ash ID
20:28:29 <kilobyte> ash ID hacks that away by _first_ checking autopickup, then identifying it
20:29:06 <elliptic> really? I guess that was fixed sometime when I wasn't paying attention then
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20:35:53 <SamB> or the hack is broken too

[mikee]

Doesn't this assume that everybody in every circumstance was going to zap-ID a wand in a meaningless manner (e.g., at a rat)? Surely alternative behavior beyond even kilobyte's observation exists. People do, for instance, scroll-ID wands in lots of cases. Some of them are identified by monsters zapping them; some are bought from a shop; etc., etc.

[duvessa]

I very frequently scroll-ID wands instead, a haste charge is a hell of a lot better than an identify scroll. Much as I would like to remove the "ID game," this is not a sensible place to start.