Searing Ray

[twelwe]

There is a new version of the spell out in trunk, I don't know how old it is and it might even be in stable. Searing ray is an offensive conjuration spell that gives the caster a buff. That buff used to empower the next cast of searing ray, but it expired if you performed any action but casting searing ray, so you would trade mobility/turns for this damage build up. Personally I never liked it and thought it was dangerous to use in the sense that you become more vulnerable defensively using searing ray than using a higher mana spell that could do the same damage.

The spell changed since I last used it but my complaints are the same as before and more. The searing ray buff, once gained, is your cue to, you guess it, offensively wait, you are encouraged to press . during battle which will trigger the searing ray buff effect. for each turn you wait, another bolt goes in the exact same direction that you originally aimed regardless of the enemy position and you lose one mana. On the third and last turn of the buff, a more powerful bolt with penetration goes in the same direction. Your target has to be approaching you directly from N NW W SW S SE E NE in order for your subsequent bolts to hit, and if they don't, you are out another point of mana and, more importantly, one turn. It is like if large rocks had some restriction where you had to stand still and throw three stones first. It functions like something that would come out of a Xom spellbook.

That is not to say searing ray does not have a purpose in this game.

Searing ray simply does not belong in the starting conjurer book. I usually (50/50) play conjurers and can't envision a scenario where I would use it above battlesphere and magic dart - which has setup and positioning issues that the game goes to great lengths to work around. I think the spell could be reformed and replace something in an elemental school like throw frost. Call it something badass like frostfangs, 2 mana initial cast, applies a one turn debuff that can stack up to two times. The debuff increases the damage of frostfangs by 100% of the base damage, and increases the damage of other ice "bolt" spells like throw icicle and bolt of cold by 33% of the base damage.

Waiting just doesn't seem like a viable strategy to me even though it equates casting a one mana spell you wouldn't otherwise have access to. But waiting combined with a predetermined bolt path just feels like the wrong way to play am offensive spellcaster.

[twelwe]

A quick example of why searing way is bad in its current form: The beam path the game chooses for you when you cast is not the same path the enemy will travel towards you unless they are directly N NW W SW S SE E NE and have no odd movement behavior. The very movement and targeting system of the game is very binary and this type of spell suffers from it

[Sar]

I like the spell damage-wise a lot, but I can see the targeting annoyance.

[Sandman25]

Battlesphere + Magic Dart is good in open terrain, Searing Ray is good in corridors.

[duvessa]

My experience with searing ray is that it is plenty good before you get those level 4 conjurations. Even if it's bad afterwards, that seems pretty appropriate since it is a level 2 spell; just how often do you use throw flame after you can cast IMB? I agree that the direction bias is really bad though (this is greatly exacerbated by circlelos).

[Kate]

Probably it could just work more like a lightning rod (but without spreading damage over the full arc).

[dpeg]

MarvinPA: interface-wise, the only thing I'd add is a comment whenever you zap Searing Ray the first time. Something like: "Not acting will trigger up to two further bursts." Currently, there is no indication what you're supposed to do. I think the basic concept of the spell is solid.

[Hurkyl]

What would your level 2 conjurer do without Searing Ray?

It would stand still, and spam Magic Darts in the same direction until the enemy is dead.

The only difference is, with Searing Ray, you hit '.' instead of 'zaf' for the subsequent hits, you are encouraged to maneuver to a controlled location before firing, and you are do dramatically more damage.

There isn't really any increase in your "defensive vulnerability" -- and the fact you are doing so much more damage means you are actually less vulnerable.

Searing ray simply does not belong in the starting conjurer book. I usually (50/50) play conjurers and can't envision a scenario where I would use it above battlesphere and magic dart

The most obvious scenario is when you don't have battlesphere yet. And IMO there are a fair number of scenarios where it is worthwhile to use Searing Ray instead of Magic Dart to trigger battlesphere shots -- e.g. when fighting a group of enemies in a narrow corridor, or a single high HP enemy that will take a number of shots to kill with battlesphere.


I do agree the targeting could stand to be better.

[twelwe]

What would your level 2 conjurer do without Searing Ray?

if searing ray was taken out of the cj book it wouldn't leave some unfillable hole, so your entire premise is silly. Its like asking,what would we do if apple trees grew some other fruit?

[Wahaha]

It could simply shoot at the first targeted monster, and if it dies keep shooting in the same direction as the last shot. It wouldn't make the spell any stronger really. This would solve most targeting issues.

[twelwe]

It could simply shoot at the first targeted monster, and if it dies keep shooting in the same direction as the last shot. It wouldn't make the spell any stronger really. This would solve most targeting issues.

It keeps going in the same direction regardless of whether the monster dies, moves, or stays in the path of the beam. On the third turn of waiting, the beam has penetration.

[Hurkyl]

What would your level 2 conjurer do without Searing Ray?

if searing ray was taken out of the cj book it wouldn't leave some unfillable hole, so your entire premise is silly. Its like asking,what would we do if apple trees grew some other fruit?

I'm... thoroughly confused by this. Is it actually a response to my post?

[Klown]

I like the spell, it rarely fails to kill things early on. I don't learn it if I feel my caster is doing well, opting to keep the 2 slots open for the battlesphere/mystic blast combo a couple levels later.

[MDvedh]

The best spell ever flavor-wise.
Come on, thats pew-pew lazorgun omg.

[Lasty]

I quite like this spell. It does something unique, it's power level is reasonable for a level 2 spell, and it fills a niche. I learn it on all my conjurers, and I sometimes learn it on other characters who have an option to pick it up early in the game. When I do learn it, I use it though Lair, especially in corridors. It's great for taking out ogres, gnolls and wights during the phase of the game where those are kind of scary. Further, if I recall correctly, it works just fine w/ battlesphere, so I don't know why they're being treated as opposites.

It does require a small amount of maneuvering to make good use of this spell, but I don't see why that's a bad thing.

I would be sad to see this spell get significantly changed.

[galehar]

As pointed out by MarvinPA, waiting in place isn't ideal. But having to recast it isn't that great either, and the difference in MP cost and damage wouldn't be obvious. How about this: after the first cast, you're automatically back in targetting mode with the previous monster still aimed at, even if it moved. You can reaim it, but maybe with a restriction on the angle. Confirm targetting to maintain the searing ray at 1 MP cost and enjoy the damage bonus. Cancel the targetting to do anything else.

[Galefury]

That sounds very good!

[Wahaha]

It could simply shoot at the first targeted monster, and if it dies keep shooting in the same direction as the last shot. It wouldn't make the spell any stronger really. This would solve most targeting issues.

It keeps going in the same direction regardless of whether the monster dies, moves, or stays in the path of the beam. On the third turn of waiting, the beam has penetration.

What? Thanks for describing how the spell currently works?

Anyway MarvinPA's suggestion is pretty similar. Though I think mine is less annoying because there's no need to confirm targeting every turn or to cancel targeting to be able to do something else.

[whitmo]

Searing Ray kicks serious *** in Line-Sprint.

That is all.

[Quazifuji]

As pointed out by MarvinPA, waiting in place isn't ideal. But having to recast it isn't that great either, and the difference in MP cost and damage wouldn't be obvious. How about this: after the first cast, you're automatically back in targetting mode with the previous monster still aimed at, even if it moved. You can reaim it, but maybe with a restriction on the angle. Confirm targetting to maintain the searing ray at 1 MP cost and enjoy the damage bonus. Cancel the targetting to do anything else.

I like the "send you back into targeting mode" idea instead of "wait to keep shooting a beam". It's more intuitive and allows for cancelling it in the weird cases where you want to cancel it without actually performing a different action. I'm not convinced it needs to allow you to adjust the targetting each time, though. I think the spell's ineffectiveness on jittery or blinking enemies like bats or crimson imps is part of its weakness, and figuring out when you can get an enemy to stay in the beam and when it won't work is kind of fun.

I would say to at the very least fix the problem of its path not synching up with the path enemies' path-finding takes from some directions, though. You don't need to be able to readjust the aim, just make sure that the default aim follows the same path that something charging you will take so you can guarantee it will keep hitting any enemy running towards you.

[battaile]

I would say to at the very least fix the problem of its path not synching up with the path enemies' path-finding takes from some directions, though. You don't need to be able to readjust the aim, just make sure that the default aim follows the same path that something charging you will take so you can guarantee it will keep hitting any enemy running towards you.

This would be perfect, although I can see how it'd probably be tricky to implement.

Something that would be almost as good would be showing a ghost trail while Ray is still active. My problem is usually some variation of trying to remember if my beam went
--xxx
xx
or
---xx
xxx
When something is a couple squares away and approaching from a slight diagonal

[Quazifuji]

I would say to at the very least fix the problem of its path not synching up with the path enemies' path-finding takes from some directions, though. You don't need to be able to readjust the aim, just make sure that the default aim follows the same path that something charging you will take so you can guarantee it will keep hitting any enemy running towards you.

This would be perfect, although I can see how it'd probably be tricky to implement.

Something that would be almost as good would be showing a ghost trail while Ray is still active. My problem is usually some variation of trying to remember if my beam went
--xxx
xx
or
---xx
xxx
When something is a couple squares away and approaching from a slight diagonal

The problem with this is that you still end up with the situation where an enemy is moving towards you at one of those angles, and the first and third beams hit, but the second doesn't. So in the middle step you have this awkward situation where you have to decide between retargeting and starting the beam over, or wasting a beam missing for a turn so that you can hit them with the third beam.

Aside from being an awkward gameplay mechanic, it's also a very unintuitive limitation of the ability, that it's weaker if enemies are approaching from specific angles. You could conceivably make an interesting ability that functions better against enemies coming from some angles than others, but I on't think Searing Ray should be that ability. I think Searing Ray's role as being strong against enemies following predictable paths works well already, and the weakness at certain angles would ideally be removed.

[Psiweapon]

As pointed out by MarvinPA, waiting in place isn't ideal. But having to recast it isn't that great either, and the difference in MP cost and damage wouldn't be obvious. How about this: after the first cast, you're automatically back in targetting mode with the previous monster still aimed at, even if it moved. You can reaim it, but maybe with a restriction on the angle. Confirm targetting to maintain the searing ray at 1 MP cost and enjoy the damage bonus. Cancel the targetting to do anything else.

This.

Sweeping laser beams are inherently cool.

[Matanui3]

Heck, some of the targeting issues would be fixed if targeting itself was fixed - I'm talking being able to choose the path of your beam (or arrow, or insert-ranged-ability-here).
I am tired of being able to shoot past a monster if it is standing on one side of me, but having my shot go through it if it is standing in the same spot on the other side of me.
Same for my beams hitting multiple opponents sometimes and not other times (to say nothing of purposely aiming past your end target because it changes the shape of your beam so it still hits that target AND it then hits the other target you want to get).

[damiac]

Another issue with targeting is when you're off by one tile with a ranged enemy, with a plant somewhere between you.
M L
P

In some configurations of this, the P's arrows will hit the plant "L', while the monster "M"'s arrows go around the plant. Meaning he can hit you, but you can't hit him. This obviously makes no sense, as you're both supposedly firing straight at each other.

Targetting will already account for stuff you can't see through like rock walls. There's never a time when you can see an enemy, but not shoot at him, when the only obstacles around a rock walls. So I think this behavior should also happen with bushes, trees, mushrooms, etc.

Optimally, it would be good to have some way to affect the targeting manually, but at least having it automatically avoid obstructions when possible would help a lot.

[yxhuvud]

Aside from small targeting issues I think the spell is fine as it is, (if not perhaps a bit OP as it usually makes short work of monsters that are colored red, often before they can get close enough. This spell is THE unique-killer in the early game). Making the targeting move around with the monster would not be without its bad sides. It would make it harder to make killing fields in curved corridors as hitting purely diagonally may not be what you want.

When it comes to predictable targeting that works the same way in both directions, could that be solved by always calculating the targeting line starting at a fix order depending on the positions of the target and targeter?