Ziggurat Zagger
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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dck wrote:It's really bad to add random things like "slow but not normal slow" that don't let you know at what speed you're going to move or to have poison increasingly screw with your failure rates so you have to keep checking them when you're in... well, when you're basically anywhere since poisonous monsters exist everywhere.
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Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
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dpeg wrote:Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
No, it means that GDD is a decent place to get ideas and a horrible place to polish them. Because posters like you will always be around --and plenty-- to whine in advance.
Lair Larrikin
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Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
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Sandman25 wrote:Perhaps poison should decrease movement speed, then it will be different enough from both rot and direct damage.
Sar wrote:Awesome! That could lead to interesting tactics like Chei players quaffing strong poison to strengthen their Slouch. Would be a nerf to Chei Nagas though since they're rPois - unless they learn PArrow, that is.
Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
rebthor wrote:It's always nice when you give condescending answers to posters.
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earLOBe wrote:Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
The chance of poison being fatal at the moment is also mostly random. I'd rather have that randomness be a matter of tactical constraints instead of invisible numbers. Making poison take away escape options also synergizes interestingly with the enemies in swamp (amphibious hydrae) and snake (constrictors), and I guess to a lesser extent orb spiders, to the point where that may require some rebalancing.
It would require some rethinking of how poison works with Formicids, though - perhaps speeding/slowing effects should be differentiated into magical ones, which are blocked by stasis, and natural ones, which aren't (I struggle to think of a natural source of speed, unless we allow Fo to berserk which there seems to be a consensus against). It'd either make their poison problems meaningless or be a buff to Fo of Chei (which can't run away anyway).
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dpeg wrote:Lasty wrote:Doesn't the slowness idea just change poison from "ubiquitous and annoying" to "ubiquitous, annoying, and also randomly fatal"?
No, it means that GDD is a decent place to get ideas and a horrible place to polish them. Because posters like you will always be around --and plenty-- to whine in advance.
Ziggurat Zagger
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No, it means that GDD is a decent place to get ideas and a horrible place to polish them. Because posters like you will always be around --and plenty-- to whine in advance.
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Lasty wrote:randomly fatal
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Ziggurat Zagger
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galehar wrote:Anyway, we already have poison that slows you. It's curare. Maybe we can try to give it to some monsters, although I always thought it was a good effect, but also good that it was rare.
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crate wrote:I assumed that the proposed change was to eliminate poison damage entirely and replace it with a movement-slowing effect
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dpeg wrote:I've grown so unhappy with the 5-bashing required in Crawl (after every fight, essentially)
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Another approach would be to give poison temporary and tactically relevant non-damage effects. Effects like stat damage, MP loss, slow, confuse, pass out+exhaustion, and paralyze could all fit from a flavor perspective. Poison could even function like contamination/glow where poison level is tied to severity of probabilistic effects.
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But, I am with shock -- I think we can consider other effects and I especially like making poison similar to contamination/glow.
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galehar wrote:So I suggest that poison duration is shorter but the average damage remains the same. Would be good to simplify it too, the current code is quite messy. Which is why this proposal doesn't contain actual formulas and numbers, I don't have time to source dive and make a complete proposal. Any help with that appreciated.
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Mumcon wrote:poison's effectiveness being based not on resistance/weakness, but rather on MR
I have always thought that poison could use some kind of reform, because I believe the "problems" (I realize that those who accept them just call them features) associated with poison--extremely good early on, really bad against things that resist it, no room for a good high-level poison spell--stem from design choices that are forced upon developers by the properties of the core poison mechanic.
Anyway, if the major concern right now is player formicids
My ideal is to have poison
- work the same for monsters and players
- have long duration (doing damage over time is its real fundamental feature)
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Ziggurat Zagger
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galehar wrote:I've tried to put together a spreadsheet of poison damage depending on poison level.
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Sandman25 wrote:galehar wrote:I've tried to put together a spreadsheet of poison damage depending on poison level.
What's "Total Avg damage"?
Ziggurat Zagger
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galehar wrote:Sandman25 wrote:galehar wrote:I've tried to put together a spreadsheet of poison damage depending on poison level.
What's "Total Avg damage"?
It's the average amount of total damage. I've renamed it to "Avg total damage", hope it's more clear. I've also fixed (hopefully) the formula which was completely wrong
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galehar wrote:I've tried to put together a spreadsheet of poison damage depending on poison level.
Note that currently, the damage is done per player turn, duration of turns has no effect. If it's changed to a normal duration, you'll take more damage for longer actions (total damage would still be the same). I'm not 100% percent sure of the accuracy of the spreadsheet, but it's probably close enough. If you notice any mistake, let me know.
Now, to find a good formula for poison duration and damage.
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