New Level 9 Spell: Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble

[Azrael]

Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble
Level 9 Charm/Conjuration

Fluff: In his later years, Iskenderun regretted a small part of the destruction he'd loosed upon the world. This protective spell is his half-assed apology.

Gives the user the Spectral Bubble status effect.

Two Variations on this idea:

All incoming damage is reduced by 10, up to a maximum of 150. This status effect causes magical contamination.

All incoming damage is reduced by 15. You lose one MP every turn you have this status effect, and one MP every time this spell reduces incoming damage.

[Mankeli]

Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble
All incoming damage is reduced by 15. You lose one MP every turn you have this status effect, and one MP every time this spell reduces incoming damage.

Sounds an awful lot like song of shielding , which seems to be removed in 0.14: http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php? ... +shielding

[Sandman25]

This should be Level 9 spell Charms/Conjuration/Hexes/Air/Earth/Fire/Ice/Necromancy, otherwise it is OP

[Azrael]

Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble
All incoming damage is reduced by 15. You lose one MP every turn you have this status effect, and one MP every time this spell reduces incoming damage.

Sounds an awful lot like song of slaying , which seems to be removed in 0.14: http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php? ... +shielding

...You mean song of shielding?
The difference is that this can be implemented without being absolutely terrible for casters, which was Song of Shielding's main drawback.

[DracheReborn]

All incoming damage is reduced by 15. You lose one MP every turn you have this status effect, and one MP every time this spell reduces incoming damage.

This is what Song of Shielding should have been, probably (but with different numbers). Maybe there's a niche for it now with Song of Shielding gone?

[Mankeli]

...You mean song of shielding?

Fuck, at least the link was right, right?

Yeah, this would be definitely better* than SoS, you are right about that. But would it be interesting enough? I mean, they just removed SoS instead of modifying it.

*On the other hand, it is a level nine spell so at least people without conjurations would probably want to train more armour/dodging/or even shields instead of this

[dck]

The difference is that this can be implemented without being absolutely terrible for casters

I think a dual school level nine spell with a purpose like this is going to be absolutely terrible for everyone.
Hell even the spell that makes you literally immortal is level eight and belongs to two of the best schools of magic, instead of just one.

[Azrael]

So Sandman thinks it's overpowered, and dck underpowered.

Any consensus here?

[1010011010]

Seems a bit tame for a level 9 spell. It's not an earthquake, giant explosion or dragons, just a bit boring.

[Sandman25]

I just imagined it on DD, ignoring 16-25 damage with huge AC...
Death's Door is overestimated, it is too easy to die when it ends (especially in Hell), Borgnjor's Revivification is limited in use. I would spam the Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble, it's possible to use staff of wizardry + 2 rings of wizardry for that.

Edit. 15 damage ignored is more powerful than AC +30.

[MoogleDan]

A roughly 50%-ish increase to durability is worse than a 50% boost to damage output and movement speed, so it's worse than Haste. Haste is about a bajillion times easier to cast than this. I'm gonna say underpowered is likely the case. While Haste is almost certainly overpowered, it IS in the game, so I think it's a fair benchmark.

[dck]

No no, I think it'd be awful useless and terrible.

[Mankeli]

Any consensus here?

*On the other hand, it is a level nine spell so at least people without conjurations would probably want to train more armour/dodging/or even shields instead of this

=I think people with high conjurations already (ice/fire blasters) may consider it, other's won't. I also don't think it's very interesting and conjurations wouldn't be the right school for this anyways.

[crate]

It seems pretty boring to me but I don't think I care about the power level. Just increasing your durability is generally not very exciting, especially since there are already a lot of spells in crawl that do this (stoneskin, ozo armour, phase shift, rmsl/dmsl...).

[Azrael]

Exciting spell effects are good, but sometimes utility is good too. I also love the idea of dueling spellcasters throwing up shields and such, so there's some thematic merit. I know that I would definitely memorize this spell every game, if I could.

For added fun, why not give it a +50 increase in MR? That would be a unique effect.

[nicolae]

Iskenderun's Spectral Bubble
Level 9 Charm/Conjuration

Why is this Conjurations? It doesn't deal damage of any kind. I feel like a Conjurations-based shielding spell would, at the very least, find some way to cause damage, perhaps by redirecting the damage it deflects from you onto some other target. This is just a lackluster defense spell, like crate said.

Exciting spell effects are good, but sometimes utility is good too.

Interesting utility is best.

[Azrael]

As it stands, there are no useful upper-level defensive spells or shields that don't rely on luck, and if you have to rely on luck from the RNG to save you, you're already dead. This spell definitely fills an empty niche. If conjuration spells need to deal damage, give it a 50% damage reflection rate, similar to the one from Yredelemnul.

If it's still too boring for a level 9 spell, reduce it to 7. It's still not stronger than Haste, so I imagine it could stand to be reduced a few levels.

[nicolae]

As it stands, there are no useful upper-level defensive spells

did somebody not already mention the level 8 spell that makes you literally invincible

If it's still too boring for a level 9 spell, reduce it to 7.

It's pretty boring for a level one spell. There are ways to provide interesting buffs beyond "make a good number higher" and "make a bad number lower". Look at Disjunction, for instance.

[Azrael]

As it stands, there are no useful upper-level defensive spells

did somebody not already mention the level 8 spell that makes you literally invincible

Which ends up killing you half the time when it expires. That's an emergency spell, not something you use at the start of a fight.

[dck]

What the fuck.
No it doesn't unless you use it like the biggest idiot.

[BlackSheep]

Maybe we don't need yet another spell you use at the start of every (tough) fight.

[Tiktacy]

What the fuck.
No it doesn't unless you use it like the biggest idiot.

LOL!

[Azrael]

When I imagine spell duels, I think of wizards casting both offensive and defensive spells; flame and stone shattering on hastily erected shields as attack and counter flash back and forth.

This is not what I see in Crawl. Spellcasters mostly just pummel each other with a few offensive spells, making it a game of damage and HP. What happened to the fragile wizard who uses spells for defense rather than HP?
Death's door IS DANGEROUS, dck, no matter how you use it. It leaves you at a 10-20 HP in a game where being in that state is often instantly fatal.
Deflect missiles is okay, but it doesn't protect against:
storms
fireballs
smiting
torment
hellfire
monsters punching your fragile caster in the face

These are all common lategame threats. There's definitely a niche here.

[BlackSheep]

There are protections against all of those things except hellfire and smiting, though, in the form of resistances and AC.

[nicolae]

When I imagine spell duels, I think of wizards casting both offensive and defensive spells; flame and stone shattering on hastily erected shields as attack and counter flash back and forth.

This is not what I see in Crawl. Spellcasters mostly just pummel each other with a few offensive spells, making it a game of damage and HP.

Crawl isn't Magic: the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons and I don't see why it needs to be. The primary gameplay in Crawl is killing things, and the best way to not get killed is to kill the other one first.

Deflect missiles is okay, but it doesn't protect against:
storms
fireballs
smiting
torment
hellfire
monsters punching your fragile caster in the face

These are all common lategame threats. There's definitely a niche here.

What about the level 1 spells that all backgrounds get, "Break Line of Sight" and "Walk Away"? If you need a new spell to deal with monsters punching you in the face, I suspect the problem is not with the contents of your magical library.

[dck]

"fragile caster"

What happened to the fragile wizard who uses spells for defense rather than HP?

He died because he was weak and terrible and was replaced by people who knew how to at least not be that special kind of terrible.

[Sandman25]

"fragile caster"

What happened to the fragile wizard who uses spells for defense rather than HP?

He died because he was weak and terrible and was replaced by people who knew how to at least not be that special kind of terrible.

Yes, I agree. A caster is fragile early game, can be fragile middle game (depends on available spells and playstyle) but when you are casting level 9 spell of 2 magic schools, it must not be fragile. Even DE/Sp is not fragile with huge EV and 150+ HP. (I am not sure about Fe but at least it has several lives).

[Siegurt]

Counter-proposal:

Iskenderun's Shimmering Sphere: Level 7 Charms/Conjuration
This spell creates a shimmering sphere of energy around you, redirecting some of the destructive energies hurled at you and spraying them in random directions

This spell would create a bubble of reflective energy around you, all non-physical (doesn't block melee or projectiles) attacks would have to pass a [damage in d(spellpower)] check to hit you. On failure, the spell does nothing, on success, the attack doesn't hit you, and instead the damage which would hit you is split randomly among targets in your LOS (Subject to their own elemental damage reduction, rather than yours) Max spellpower 200

This offers both defensive and offensive elements (Helping to justify it's dual school-ness) And requires an investment to be useful, it's powerful, without being overbearing, doesn't occupy any slots currently occupied by other spells (It's closest functional relative would be Shield of Golubria, but it's sufficiently differentiated I think) It scales both with your power level and that of your enemies, has some potentially tricky drawbacks (Hitting allies in your LOS for example) which require you think about how to and when to use it. I envision this working on bolt, area effect, and environmental (cloud) damage applied to you, subject to it's damage roll, making standing in your own area effect potentially a viable (if risky) strategy.

[siprus]

Counter-proposal:

Iskenderun's Shimmering Sphere: Level 7 Charms/Conjuration
This spell creates a shimmering sphere of energy around you, redirecting some of the destructive energies hurled at you and spraying them in random directions

This spell would create a bubble of reflective energy around you, all non-physical (doesn't block melee or projectiles) attacks would have to pass a [damage in d(spellpower)] check to hit you. On failure, the spell does nothing, on success, the attack doesn't hit you, and instead the damage which would hit you is split randomly among targets in your LOS (Subject to their own elemental damage reduction, rather than yours) Max spellpower 200

This offers both defensive and offensive elements (Helping to justify it's dual school-ness) And requires an investment to be useful, it's powerful, without being overbearing, doesn't occupy any slots currently occupied by other spells (It's closest functional relative would be Shield of Golubria, but it's sufficiently differentiated I think) It scales both with your power level and that of your enemies, has some potentially tricky drawbacks (Hitting allies in your LOS for example) which require you think about how to and when to use it. I envision this working on bolt, area effect, and environmental (cloud) damage applied to you, subject to it's damage roll, making standing in your own area effect potentially a viable (if risky) strategy.

I think this is improved, but there are many other spells i'd like to see much rather added than this one. (Like that singularity which had thread some time ago.)

[One-Eyed Jack]

If you die after using death's door then either you would have been extra dead if you hadn't cast it or you shouldn't have cast it

In neither case is the spell the cause of your death

[duvessa]

in practice ddoor is actually invulnerability followed by more invulnerability

[Sandman25]

If you die after using death's door then either you would have been extra dead if you hadn't cast it or you shouldn't have cast it

In neither case is the spell the cause of your death

That's exactly the main difference between Death's Door and suggested spell - you don't want to cast the former unless you are to die without it while you can spam the latter in every non-trivial fight. So I don't think we should compare the two and judge one based on another. They are used in different situations and even don't combine well.

[Sar]

I remember using Death Door after going down the W:3 stairs and then casting Fire Storm on top of myself and wiping out everything around. Probably not very smart, but I had fun.
Also you can wear stasis and Borg out of DDoor for a low price of one potion of curing to cure your confusion.

[skyspire]

I think the Spectral Bubble idea is great, provided that it reflects a % of damage. There are few good defensive spells for casters, even fewer high level defensive spells (only 1?) Phase Shift is good, but it only increases EV .. It would be good to have something powerful defensively for those who do not invest skill points in the Dark Side. However it can be argued that this is more of a Translocation/Charms category like Shroud of Golubria. Or Translocation/Charms/Air since it would also be effective against missiles.

Interestingly, Condensation Shield is only Ice Magic, with no Conjuration or Charms.. so the case could be made for Translocation/Air --- Translocation for the shimmingering displacement field and Air for the fact you are hurling damage back at the attackers, even ranged damage. just like Airstrike and Tornado cause damage directly without conjuration.

Fire seems to be the only element that cannot damage directly without Conjuration