Medium-serious idea: yes another quest post

[TeshiAlair]

To start off this would be an OPTIONAL feature, probably implemented in a branch unless it was deemed non-obtrusive enough to make it into the main game.

The idea:
Each species and race has their own personal quest to fulfill, all of which are fairly standard events in the game. The purpose behind the quest would be to encourage finishing these landmarks sooner rather than later (similar in a weird way to the runelock)

My starting ideas:
Backgrounds:
Fighter (Fi)- Enchant a weapon up to at least +4/0 or +0/+4 OR have a (un)randart of your highest weapon type
Bonus- either a scroll of EW III or vorpalize weapon
Gladiator (Gl)- Kill at least X different kinds of enemies OR different uniques
Bonus- a randart weapon
Monk (Mo)- Reach max piety with a god
Bonus- either +invo or enhanced god abilities
Hunter (Hu)- Kill at least X different types (ie, h, g, etc) of enemies
Bonus- spans a floor-appropriate dragon guaranteed to drop a hide
Assassin (As)- Get X stealth-kills
Bonus- the assassin-themed items
Berserker (Be)- Burn X books
Bonus- Safer berserk
Abyssal Knight (AK)- Corrupt X floors of the dungeon OR survive the abyss X times without using his ability
Bonus- better distortion odds
Chaos Knight (CK)- Whenever Xom says you won.
Bonus- random
Death Knight (DK)- Raise X monsters OR raise X uniques
Bonus- chance to raise abominations instead of zombies
Healer (He)- Neutralize X monsters
Bonus- Increased health
Skald (Sk)- spend X total time under influence of charms
Bonus- reduced glow
Enchanter (En)- Kill X enemies that have been hexed
Bonus- Quieter hexes
Transmuter (Tm)- Spend X total time morphed
Bonus- Maybe a multi-morph or increased duration?
Arcane Marksman (AM)- Unsure
Warper (Wr)- Unsure
Wizard (Wz) - Get to level X in at least Y spell schools
Bonus- +10 MP
Conjurer (Cj)- Deal X damage with a single conjuration
Bonus- +mana regen
Summoner (Su)- Summons have killed X creatures
Bonus- + summon cap
Necromancer (Ne)- unsure how to differentiate from DK

Unsure how to make the elementalists more interesting
Fire Elementalist (FE)
Ice Elementalist (IE)
Air Elementalist (AE)
Earth Elementalist (EE)
Venom Mage (VM)

Artificer (Ar) - Have X evokables ID'd
Bonus- +evokations, or get one of a type you dont have
Wanderer (Wn) - Random

I'll work on the race ones later, but I think they'd be branch specific (clear orc, clear elf, clear water branch for octo/mer, etc)

[Sandman25]

I like this idea, it would differentiate backgrounds. Perhaps it is possible to give some bonuses to combos also like DEWz has lower chance to drain MP with CBoE or MfIE has extra AC from Ozocubu's Armour in water.

Edit.
FE/AE/IE/EE can have a chance to summon corresponding elemental when killing a monster with elemental spell.
VM can have a chance to cure poison (or even effect of potion of curing) when a monster dies to poison

[TeshiAlair]

Mhmm. I'm really looking here for a potential mid game power spike with the risk of dying early, but not too much late game power so that people still find it "optional" (since people here will do things they LOATHE if they think there's a reward in it cough labyrinths). This way, everyone SHOULD get the bonus at some point, but it will only be relevant if they do it early. I'm really fond of Gl's quest because it is relatively easy to do by exploring more branches, but encourages doing so and going moderately deep in them, and the reward is something that will most likely be insignificant late game.

Also, this combos well with the rune lock to prevent some of them being doable just by spamming/diving the main dungeon.

[indspenceable]

I like this idea, it would differentiate backgrounds. Perhaps it is possible to give some bonuses to combos also like DEWz has lower chance to drain MP with CBoE or MfIE has extra AC from Ozocubu's Armour in water.

Edit.
FE/AE/IE/EE can have a chance to summon corresponding elemental when killing a monster with elemental spell.
VM can have a chance to cure poison (or even effect of potion of curing) when a monster dies to poison

I really really really don't like this. Part of what makes crawl cool is that you can control your own fate - You want to be an Ice Elementalist, but you started as a gladiator? Go ahead! This type of change would be counterproductive to existing crawl design.

[reaver]

I like these sorts of "quests," and think they could add more depth and strategic decision to Crawl if implemented properly. However, I don't think adding them to backgrounds would be a good idea. Stapling these particular goals to random backgrounds just doesn't seem to fit the Crawl aesthetic. Crawl isn't arbitrary in letting some backgrounds have things other don't, and doesn't have sub-goals tied to the player at the beginning of the game. I would far prefer these to be added in-game via books or NPCs. So, for example, you could find a book called "The Art of Enchantment" that would trigger the current Fighter Quest, even if you're another background. When you get to the proper bonus, you would get an ability which gives the scroll effect at the cost of destroying the book.

Right now, however, I don't think any devs are in favor of adding quests to Crawl. These aren't really the traditional "Save the Princess" quests, but they're similar in some respects.

Most of your quests are "kill something in this particular way;" which is scummy. Something more like the Fighter Quest for the rest of the backgrounds would be needed. This isn't a problem with the system but rather a problem with the effects currently tied to the system. Maybe some of the less meta tournament banners could be used for this.

[Klown]

If not attaching them to backgrounds then maybe...
Random quests with a 'you gained a gift!' once completed? :p

[Igxfl]

Mhmm. I'm really looking here for a potential mid game power spike with the risk of dying early, but not too much late game power so that people still find it "optional" (since people here will do things they LOATHE if they think there's a reward in it cough labyrinths). This way, everyone SHOULD get the bonus at some point, but it will only be relevant if they do it early.

I thought this was what optional branches were for. Can't you just clear Elf early?

[and into]

Overall, I very much agree with reaver. I like the idea of quests, and just more things that affect players over a slightly longer period than just one floor (which is why I proposed an endgame unique who could track you from floor to floor a while back), but they'd have to be nonscummy, with good but reasonable risk/reward, and they should spawn randomly. If four or five promising initial quests were hashed out and designed, maybe someone would be willing to make a patch? I certainly don't think that quests should be preset based on background. One place I disagree with reaver is that the fighter quest in OP doesn't strike me as a good example or model. Who wouldn't want to bring a weapon up to +4 enchantment? Or is the idea that you have to trade the weapon in to get the scroll(s)? In any case it feels a bit like the equivalent of a "fetch quest" that doesn't have a big baddie protecting the relic you seek--not very exciting, and definitely not the sort of thing that would really add much to crawl IMO.

Another caveat is that spoilerish qualities for these quests should be carefully avoided. The reward should be clear, and the type and general extent of the danger should at least be implied; moreover, they should be designed such that specific spoilers do not help one beat them. So might be a tall order, but I like the idea a lot. Of course whether they add to or detract from the game hinges on how fun and interesting / challenging the quests are.

[and into]

Special altar-like features (timed, perhaps, so you have to initiate quest relatively soon, or else risk missing out on it?) would probably be the simplest way to present characters with quests. I feel like npcs don't really fit crawl's aesthetic as well. A book or something might work, or finding some sort of item that you evoke to begin quest. Exactly how quest is initiated could vary from one to another. Even things like killing a particular unique or whatever could be a way to begin a quest. (Either a new unique designed for quest initiation, or a chance to start some quest related to an existing unique, upon killing it, or picking up a special item it sometimes spawns with, etc etc.)

[dpeg]

I like these sorts of "quests," and think they could add more depth and strategic decision to Crawl if implemented properly. [...] Right now, however, I don't think any devs are in favor of adding quests to Crawl. These aren't really the traditional "Save the Princess" quests, but they're similar in some respects.

Aren't troves quests of this kind? I suggested and I like them to this day, so you cannot say that devs are against quests If there are more feasible ideas, I'll definitely listen. I believe that some of our uniques have a rich enough theme to make for cool quests. [A *very* random idea: rarely, when mortally wounded, a unique could offer an item in exchange for his life and a task.]

That said, quests on a background basis are out of the question. This is just not how Crawl ticks.

[TeshiAlair]

Yeah, I'm in agreement on the background basis, too much against their purpose. What about on a race basis though?

Troves are like quests that you flip a coin whether you win or not. I like winning that flip, don't get me wrong, but they are pretty unexciting and don't prompt a change in gameplay.

I really like the uniques idea though.

[reaver]

Yeah, I'm in agreement on the background basis, too much against their purpose. What about on a race basis though?

No, that would be just as bad or worse than backgrounds.

Aren't troves quests of this kind? I suggested and I like them to this day, so you cannot say that devs are against quests If there are more feasible ideas, I'll definitely listen.

That's a good point, I guess I didn't look at troves like that due to the random reward. I would like a quest which has a larger affect on the game. Deciding if you should go through the trouble of preparing an item for a trove is only a couple decision points.

[dpeg]

Aren't troves quests of this kind? I suggested and I like them to this day, so you cannot say that devs are against quests If there are more feasible ideas, I'll definitely listen.

That's a good point, I guess I didn't look at troves like that due to the random reward. I would like a quest which has a larger affect on the game. Deciding if you should go through the trouble of preparing an item for a trove is only a couple decision points.

Of course you are completely right here: troves are non-intrusive quests. That was completely intentional. As I said, the game can probably afford more elaborate things in this direction. You can consider troves as a trial balloon just like the first serial vaults were purely cosmetic. Now let's try to find something more questy!

[TeshiAlair]

How would races be worse? Aptitudes push people towards builds far more than backgrounds do, and it is way more thematic (a lost elf questing to Elf 3, or an exiled orc getting revenge on his homeland)

As for something more questy thats more interactive than troves and less...expansive than this, let's look at current "unique quests." The most quest like unique right now is Pikel, since you have the ability to free the slaves or murder them. The Duv twins have a questy feel, and I think Prince Ribbit does as well (attack him unarmed and you instead try to kiss him to free him of his curse! :p)

I think it would be fun to have "passive" uniques, that don't aggro unless attacked or conditions are met. These conditions should be very apparent to avoid spoilerage. For instance, a unique minotaur that has a "level" that is higher than you would normally expect on that floor. If you are significantly lower level, he says something dismissive and ignores you, but if you come back after leveling for a bit, expect a fight.

[daggaz]

You could implement quest giving uniques in special vaults and have them load in the same way that current vaults do. These uniques should offer some interesting choices, rather than "kill 15 rats and bring me their tails and ill give you a mcguffin"

[and into]

I do think quests could work in Crawl, but they should be geared toward filling a certain niche that isn't currently occupied. One simple template for this would be to make it so that things you choose to do earlier in the game have some sort of impact later on—by, for instance, guaranteeing that a particular thing (like a vault) will spawn in later dungeon.

Example:

"The Guild"

When RNG rolls this early game quest, it means that Terence, Jessica, Ijyb, or another early "scrub" Unique has a chance to spawn at a suspiciously deeper point in the dungeon than you'd expect, but before Lair spawns. Killing the unique leaves a note behind (a special "unrandart" scroll) that when read simply gives the player a message saying, "Meet us in the Lair of the Beasts. Your first test is to find us. If you succeed we can discuss terms. — The Guild."

When player reaches Lair there is a guaranteed spawn of a special vault protected by a runed door (late Lair, say floor 5 to 8). Behind it, player will find Sonja and two or three other early or mid-game "bounty hunter" uniques hanging out, as if in a meeting—Maurice, Erika, maybe bring back Jozef for this . If you manage to take them out, you will find "The Guild's" stash of items (some good weapons and armor). If you come back later in the game to the runed door, however, upon opening it you will find two or three corpses, plus a mortally wounded and disarmed Sonja, with all the Guild's loot gone. If Lair spawns before you have killed the message-bearing unique earlier, then this quest doesn't happen, even if you go back and kill the early-game unique. (No note drops, or anything.)

Lots of flavor, without having a ton of stuff explicitly spelled out. (The implication is that if you wait very long before opening the door, what's happened is that someone in the Guild has betrayed them, stealing the loot, and the thieves and bounty hunters turned on each other after discovering this. None of this is said in game, though, it is simply suggested.) Not much spoilery stuff, besides having to kill the unique, but that's why it is a relatively easy unique (spawning lower than usual—he/she's looking for the Lair, after all!) who holds the quest-initiator, so nearly all games where you roll this quest you'll end up initiating it. (Who wouldn't take out Terence on D8?) You could accidentally skip the unique and miss the quest and you wouldn't know it, or be bothered with it. If you do get it, you have an interesting choice: Take on some dangerous enemies in Lair for good rewards, or skip it, foregoing the loot, but still getting a bit of flavorful story later on.

EDIT: I suppose someone could game the system with spoilered info by waiting to go onto Lair:5 or deeper, but if you really want to deprive your character of more than half the Lair experience and loot, gimping your character just so you can be sure you can get a few extra items from uniques who will no longer pose a challenge.... Sure, go right ahead. So long as the only differences in gameplay that spoilered info can bring are strictly disadvantageous, they are fine.

[dpeg]

and_into: Interesting! Here's another one:

The Blame
Upon striking the last blow on a unique, there is a chance that this unique offers a choice: sparing his life (you still get the xp and the credits for defeating him), in exchange for information. Information on the whereabouts of another unique. For example:

  Code:

The mortally wounded Sigmund thanks you for sparing his life and says: "Louise is carrying a powerful, stolen item. She is where the snakes are."

Now you have to option to be quick enough at the specified place, and you find that unique with one additional item. The unique would show up on Ctrl-O in some form, and would be un-quested after a while (could still show up, but the additional item is gone). If we make all such items special (randart weapons and armour pieces, books for the casting uniques, jewellery choice for everyone), then that might be interesting sometimes.

Anti-abuse: of course, we don't want to have players leave early uniques aside for long (e.g. ignore Sigmund), so as to make this quest easier. One simple approach: the chance for this to kick in (small to begin with) is set to zero if time between "unique seen" and "unique killed" is too long. A flavour rationale, if you need one: if the unique is addressed too late, he has no reliable information about other uniques anymore.

The option to not kill the unique is for role-playing only. You are free to kill the unique afterwards (you scoundrel!).

[and into]

dpeg: I like it! Not at all intrusive, but very simple, with some good flavor possibilities, but without anything foisted on the player. Maybe it is just me, but I don't want elaborate NPC speeches or whatever in Crawl. I think keeping a minimalist design with the quests would be good. But, that being said, I think there is a good deal of room for quests in DCSS. I do think the good gods would require that you let a spared unique go, however. (Yes I know theme and flavor are less important than game play, but when something is *completely* contrary to an already established theme, that does become a bit of a problem.) Makes sense that the other gods wouldn't particularly care one way or the other, though.

Alright... A few more ideas in various states of under-development:


"The Sectarian Temple"

Spawns: Randomly in late Dungeon (not guaranteed to spawn in the game)
Trigger: Discovery of the temple antechamber—a little vestibule area with a yellow staircase that leads down to a whole new branch.
Flavor: A very powerful Demigod with especially pronounced divine features has managed to attract a large band of worshipers, allowing him to ascend to a near-godhood status. Will you stop his ascension, and preserve the delicate balance of theological forces?

If you ignore this optional branch for too long, eventually the followers will desert it anyway, as they will go out to proselytize, leaving only an altar behind. When you try to go downstairs, you get a warning that the staircase has a special mechanism that can lock it behind you.

If you choose not to ignore it, you will go down into a new level, and the staircase will be blocked so you cannot exit. You will find a bunch of fanatics devoted to the fledgling near-god, whose name is randomly generated. The fanatics should all get one or two randomly generated invocations abilities to use against you. If you wipe out all the fanatics you get pretty good loot from them, and the staircase opens back up into the dungeon, but you have also averted the fledgling, would-be god's path to full apotheosis. He will quickly fade into oblivion, but in the meantime, he will attempt to exact revenge: You will suffer wrath effects (randomly determined from a list), but on a much shorter time line than usual. Needless to say, the loot from this quest should be very good.

Rationale: Nice to have a quest that makes the whole religion aspect of Crawl a bit more interactive, and I really like the idea of having a lot of the risk applying *after*, rather than before, you've received the reward. (I don't think there's anything quite like that in Crawl, as it stands.) This could be a wiz lab, but it works better like this, as its lingering effect is not something that spawns in the future, but rather the fact that you have to deal with wrath as you carry on afterward.

_______________________________

"The Ancient Sepulcher"

Spawns: Late game
Trigger: Discovery of the sepulcher
Flavor: An ancient tomb has stood for ages in the Dungeon, sealed by powerful magic and apparently abandoned. But recently, sinister flames have appeared around it, wreathing the basalt masonry in unnatural light. As you approach, its great door is wrenched ajar—from the inside.

Do you enter?

Basically, the design here would be very similar to a "mini-zig" of 10 levels, but which only has loot on the final floor. You can exit on any level (or perhaps, only exit on any level after the 5th?) but you won't get anything from it unless you survive until the end. The 10th level consists only of a single powerful undead enemy (a. lich, guardian mummy, or curse skull) and a ton of loot, plus a portal out. When you exit, the entire structure collapses.

_______________________________

Other ideas lacking flavor:

--> Some sort of expirable quest that involves going into Abyss or Pan at an earlier point (and level) than you usually would, in order to retrieve something, in exchange for considerable reward. Basically after spending X number of turns in abyss or pan you'd have an (increasing with time) chance for the macguffin to appear. Nab it and get out! Flavor-wise I think it would be nice if the quest were somewhat reminiscent of the myth about Eurydice and Orpheus, without explicitly imitating it or mentioning it, of course. (Evoking the myth is not necessary but would be a plus in my book .)

--> A quest that you have to fulfill while badly mutated. At the end your body is cleansed, and you are given (among other loot, perhaps) two or three potions of beneficial mutation.

[dpeg]

and_into: Very cool! I think there's enough content to actually get somewhere. Would be very nice to see input by someone else than just you and me Once the dust has settled, I will make a new forum thread with the collected ideas, and later a wiki page. I like the ideas enough to do that myself, promised. For now, two more proposals.

The acolyte of Elyvilon
Generation of either Kirke or Pikel has a small chance to also spawn a neutral human, the acolyte of Elyvilon. If you meet him, he offers you a challenge: help him free the hogs/slaves! Reward is triggered if at least one hog/slave survives and you didn't kill one of them yourself.

  Code:

The acolyte gracefully says: I will sent my prayers to heaven, asking Elyvilon to look after you.

Effect: chance for life saving (chance depends on the ratio of surviving hogs/slaves, maximal 50%).
Timer: the acolyte will take on Pikel/Kirke himself. If you don't help him, he'll just die for the cause.
Flavour: the acolyte has a limited ability to heal hogs/slaves, you and himself.

The heretic orc
You meet an orc who introduces himself as a smith. He approaches you: "Will you help me destroy the graven images to the false god?"
If you agree, he gives you an identified wand of disintegration. Somewhere on this level is a structure containing orcish idols. The orc is hunted by three (named?) orc priests. You get your reward if (a) the orcish idols are destroyed, (b) the priests are dead and (c) the heretic is still alive.
Reward: he gives you a branded orcish armour/weapon item.
Timer: the heretic is treated as an ally of you, so the priests will just kill him if you don't aggravate them.

[and into]

[Can a mod move this into GDD? Seems more fitting there, now.]

Came up with how to make those two other ideas work, though I ended up ditching any Eurydice/Orpheus reference:


"Vengeance"
Spawns: "Early" (D13 to D14, post-Lair but pre-runelock); or "Mid" (D16 to D19)
Trigger: You come upon a special vault that looks like a mini-corrupted portion of the dungeon, with a human corpse sprawled out before a gate to abyss ("early" spawn) or Pan ("mid-game" spawn).
Flavor: A young man meddled in forces beyond his ken....

The human corpse has a scroll beside him, a portion of "The Last Will and Testament of Emrys the Great," which reads, "... And finally, to my son Merl, I leave my prized ring, on the condition that he promises to cease his dangerous magical experiments." A trail of blood leads from the corpse to the gate to abyss / Pan.

Will you avenge the hapless Merl and retrieve his father's keepsake?

If you go into the abyss or Pan, after some number of turns spent exploring, you are guaranteed to eventually come across a demon who will be identified (with red message) as coveting a small, shining object. Kill him and it drops a semi-randart ring, always named "Emrys' Will." The ring is basically a randart, but it is guaranteed to have a beneficial base type, and to spawn with 2 (if retrieved from abyss earlier in the game) or 4 (if retrieved from Pan) guaranteed-beneficial affixes. So basically its like the "faerie dragon armor" but as a ring. [In the abyss, once you see this special demon, you are guaranteed not to get a sudden random Abyss-teleport for, say, 50 turns, or until you have picked the ring up—whichever comes first.]

_____________________________

"The Late Assistant"
Spawns: Mid-game (later than D16); can spawn on Vaults:1
Trigger: You come across "Orland's Abnormal Apothecary & Sundries," which has the usual store-front appearance, but rather than selling you items, Orland has something else to offer...

Orland has no wares to trade at the moment, because his assistant has not returned with new supplies. He can offer you a free sample of an extremely powerful, experimental potion Orland has been working on, however. If you choose "yes," you become horribly mutated with numerous bad mutations, semi-randomly. (Should be stacked to give one or two "high-level" mutations that really affect your game, like Slow Healing 3, in addition to one or two more mild ones like Blurry Vision 1.) Orland, aghast at what his (apparently contaminated) potion did, promises to rectify your ailments. But he'll need the supplies from his assistant, who ventured deeper into the dungeon with some bodyguards in search of useful alchemical reagents...

Three or four floors below where Orland's store spawned, you will find the assistant slain and the mercenaries who betrayed him arguing over how to divide the spoils. Dispatch the mercenaries and get the assistant's satchel. Upon returning satchel to Orland, he does indeed cure your ailments, and is surprised to find that his assistant had stumbled upon a rare and valuable breed of flower prized by alchemists (a fact that one of the savvier mercenaries perhaps caught wind of, precipitating the betrayal). With this, Orland can make some potions with extraordinary effects.

Reward: Orland's store opens up and operates like any other distillery. In addition to a selection of potions that are determined in the usual way by the RNG, Orland is guaranteed to have 2 or 3 potions of beneficial mutation, and one potion of experience, in stock. Orland's shop also is guaranteed to offer you max discount (i.e., lowest price for base value), in light of all the trouble he put you through.

[Sandman25]

I think there can be quests which depend on god. Is it possible to add some escort quests similar to Tome4? It could be triggered when you enter a new level and there is a shaft to upper levels, your goal is to escort NPC character to that shaft. It could apply only to worshipers of those gods who dislike allies killed (Oka and good gods as far as I know). Oka could grant you an artefact (or unrandart) armour, Ely could make you engorged and also grant much food, the escorted NPC could give you much gold if you worship Zin, TSO could grant you a blessed ranged weapon etc.

[Grimm]

Moved to GDD.

[epsilon]

The acolyte of Elyvilon

I'm so begging you to allow Demonspawns to worship Elyvilon after completing this quest. So much flavour.

[dpeg]

The acolyte of Elyvilon

I'm so begging you to allow Demonspawns to worship Elyvilon after completing this quest. So much flavour.

Hard to resist the begging There is one problem: whenever you allow a rare chance for something unusual (here: worshiping Elyvilon with an evil species), there will be more and more pressure to open up this opportunity for everyone. The reasoning typically goes along the lines: "I sooo much wanted to play a DS of Ely, but I just never rolled the stupid quest." And of course, that's not what we want -- having the quest trigger every time you meet Kirke or Pikel would completely defeat the purpose, in my opinion (both gameplay: all of a sudden a new option, and also flavour: do I roleplay this time or not). So if we agree that the undead/evil Ely worship remains a rare option, then I am all for it.

[epsilon]

dpeg
Actually, I was going to ask to go further and allowing Shining One switch at Elyvilon's max piety but without keeping any of it. Like she puts a good word for you, and SO agrees to test you out (thus piety loss), allowing you to worship him usual way and finally wield Holy Wrath weapon yourself, but one and only one he blesses specifically for you at max piety. I still like this idea, but I think there'll be the problem you mentioned - while Elyvilon isn't too powerful deity nor she well suited for evil species, Shining One is a one of the best later-game options and will work wonders with Demonspawns, offsetting their main weakness - it'll be too desirable to miss and thus will lead to scumming.
Elyvilon, on the other hand - just for the flavour. Awesome flavour.

[dpeg]

epsilon: I think you're selling Elyvilon short. The god is really strong: there aren't many surefire means of not-dying, and Elyvilon provides one. (I was aware of the good god change issue when I replied.) Once upon a time, there was a gameplay reason to disable the good gods for certain species: that was when piety gain came partly just from waiting, and the two species who happened to allow unlimited waiting are undead. Now there's only the flavour reason left but it would feel very strange to me to allow good god worship to those they detest. dolorous once suggested an Undead Reformist God who would take those species, and at maximal piety enable allegiance to the good gods.

[MDvedh]

I really like the idea of quests associated with uniques. Because uniques like "icy elf" or "earthy dwarf" are boring. I have about 10 wins and still don't know difference between Rupert and Norris. Quests with these uniques could bring a lot more fun, so every descend into dungeon becomes something more than just a run for orb. It will increase replayability(?) of the game.

I also remember vault I encountered once. It was "prove your might" Okawaru altar vault. Liked it very much, we need more of these.

There is a problem with quests however. We need much of them. For instance, if every game should contain 1-2 quests on average, we need about 50-100 to implement the whole system.

[MDvedh]

Also, I just came up with a great vault idea!
Pikel slave shop, placed somewhere in Orcish Mines probably. It contains neutral Pikel and caged slaves. He offers you to buy slaves for, say, 1000 gold.
You can accept the offer and get friendly slaves who would die for you and Pikel just walks away happily, or you can kill him, free slaves (who just walk away happily) and maybe get some piety with good gods for doing a good thing.

[dpeg]

I really like the idea of quests associated with uniques. [...] will increase replayability(?) of the game. [...]
There is a problem with quests however. We need much of them. For instance, if every game should contain 1-2 quests on average, we need about 50-100 to implement the whole system.

Yes, more would be better. This is a bit like entry (D:1) vaults, where we needed a really large number to offer enough variation. However, there is a difference between entry vaults and quests: why should every game feature 1-2 quests? I would be completely happy with 0.1 quests per game! This way, there is absolutely no need to rush it: we can start with few quests, those which have best gain/effort ration, and proceed from there. Compare with portal vaults: these are not guaranteed either, and are still good enough to be part of the game.

[MDvedh]

why should every game feature 1-2 quests? I would be completely happy with 0.1 quests per game!

Yes, this probably should work.

I also thought about early (D:4-D:7, maybe) altar-quest vaults. For instance, Okawaru offers you to fight a deadly warrior (orc knight, maybe), and if you manage to defeat him you may worship Okawaru with one * from the very beginning.

Quests, if implemented, may increase flavourness of the game like twice!

[Lasty]

I'm liking the quest ideas and into and dpeg are throwing around. These seem like flavorful, interesting quests that aren't necessarily worth doing / easily accomplishable, but which have appropriate levels of reward. They also play on existing mechanisms in the game to a large extent.

I don't like the idea of guaranteed quests, particularly ones based on race/background. I think crawl is a better experience when it encourages adaptation rather than forcing people to play through the whole game leveling up their background's starting skills and equipment. I also don't like the idea of (effectively) guaranteed, foreseeable loot just for doing desirable things.

I'll pitch a quest also:
The treasure map

A orc knight and an orc sorcerer (or a hell knight and a necromancer, later in the dungeon) are spawned together. When the mage half of the duo comes into view of the player, a message "The <foo> shouts, 'You'll never get the treasure!'" If the other is in view, you get "The <bar> growls, 'come back, you coward! We'll slaughter this fool.'" The fighter, when seen, moves to fight. If the fighter is slain, it drops "half a treasure map".

The first time the mage is seen, it starts a teleport and gets fear status. If the mage teleports away, it is removed from the level and will be placed on a future level. On future levels it starts a teleport if it takes damage, but doesn't gain the fear status. It can teleport to a deeper level a few times, potentially, and after a few of these, it is replaced with a lich monster. If the mage is slain, it drops "half a treasure map" and a wand of digging.

If the player obtains both half-treasure maps, a wall segment will be highlighted on the floor the duo is first encountered on. If that wall tile is dug out by any means, it reveals a portal to a small treasure vault, like a lesser trove.

Using fire attacks might have a chance to burn the "half treasure map" objects, unless that seems to obnoxious.

[1010011010]

Shop owner is being attacked by thugs
exactly as the title, a friendly shop owner (friendly human) is being attacked by some thugs (a band of orcs or whatever), all within a room with an abandoned shop.
Killing the thugs allows the shop owner to return and open his shop.

Just a vault really, but its got a quest element to it.

[MDvedh]

Shop owner is being attacked by thugs

Maurice, maybe?

[and into]

Epsilon: I really like the idea of the "reformed demonspawn" too, but I think that if you do switch to Ely, it should suppress *certain* mutations you get. For instance, you can keep rF+, but can't shoot hellfire. Icy envelope and +30% HP would be fine, but demonic guardian not so much. If you roll the acolyte quest and then have the option of reforming, you get a warning that some of your mutations will be suppressed, and on the A-screen with all your mutations you get a special notation for "suppressed if you repent of your demonic ways" to specify which ones.

I feel like this makes it a more difficult (but perhaps interesting?) decision. If certain things were suppressed, it would be completely fine having the demonspawn switch to TSO, maybe even Zin (perhaps the latter only at the cost of suppressing *all* mutations). Yes, gameplay before flavor, but having a demonic-guarded devotee of Ely or TSO just runs so contrary to how those gods are designed and portrayed that it becomes a bit of a gameplay problem. I think "suppression of 'evil' mutations" makes it work without having to majorly alter the flavor of Ely or any of the other gods.

I think it would be fine if only the expressly evil mutations were blocked: Hellfire (you can still get the rF+, you just can't shoot hellfire), foul stench (no miasma, keep saprovore etc.), and demonic guardian should definitely be suppressed. Not quite sure about powered by death, ignite blood, and powered by pain, but all the others are almost certainly fine. TSO and Ely "purge" you of ostensibly dark and evil traits, but (naturally) they still want their avatar to be as strong as possible, otherwise.

If you reform, holy wrath weapons should *still* harm you more than usual. That might seem kind of counter-intuitive, but I think it makes sense. You are still a demon-born, just now a "eudemon" (so to speak) and thus various "holy" forces put themselves at your disposal—but none of the above changes the fact that demonic blood still runs in your veins.

I really like that a "conversion pathway" first open for weapons (through TSO) might now be available (rarely) to demonspawn through Ely.

Shop owner is being attacked by thugs
exactly as the title, a friendly shop owner (friendly human) is being attacked by some thugs (a band of orcs or whatever), all within a room with an abandoned shop.
Killing the thugs allows the shop owner to return and open his shop.

Just a vault really, but its got a quest element to it.

Nice—something using the current "abandoned shop" feature is good. Yes, when quests are very short and concentrated in one area, there is a bit of a fuzzy line between "vault" and "quest"—some current vaults and portals (wizlabs in particular) have a "quest-y" feel to them—but that's completely fine.

The treasure map

I like this one too. I'd say, make the treasure maps either "rune-like items" (viewed on the ] screen) that, once picked up, take 0 weight. Or make them "unrandart scrolls" that cannot be destroyed in your inventory, but do take up a (nominal) slot and have a small (normal scroll) weight to them. Either works.

Also—just a "mechanical" question—is it possible to have new dungeon features/rooms (like a new treasure vault) spawn on a floor that has already been generated? If so the mechanic you proposed works, if not then the treasure vault would have to be a guaranteed *future* "spawn"—once you've gotten both halves, you are guaranteed to get a marked treasure vault that you have to dig out. Otherwise it doesn't generate. This also has the advantage that confused players don't try to dig out the entire floor where the map dudes generated in order to find a vault that hasn't actually spawned yet because he hasn't procured the other half of the map.

[1010011010]

Maurice, maybe?

Maurice has self teleport, which doesn't help. Perhaps another unique; Margery, Saint Roka and Dowan and Duvessa all have "the gang up on the shop keeper" aspect or maybe a normally lone unique spawned with same race allies, E.g Urug with some orcs.

You did give me an idea with Maurice though:

Shop owner locked out his shop

Maurice has stolen a shopkeepers key making him unable to sell and soon will be out of business.
It looks like normal shop but acts like the trove, with a specific request and a timer.
Maurice will be found in a level soon after the shop holding the Key, which is actually a unrandart amulet.
You then have the choice to return the key in time to open the shop, or keep the key as an amulet.

[TeshiAlair]

Another idea- Uniques that spawn upon goal completion

For instance, if you kill X rats by Y floor, a rat king will spawn. There could be a warning about this at maybe the 75% mark as to make it not super spoilery.

Or, Saint Roka could have a guaranteed spawn if you kill a certain number of priests.

[johlstei]

To keep up with the shopkeeper ideas:

Far from home
An abandoned shop is found somewhere. Later on, if you end up in the abyss, you can come across a very lost shopkeeper who begs you to help him get back home. If you say no, you can kill him and take some guaranteed loot. If you say yes, he becomes an ally until you bring him back to his shop, where he opens for business.

[MoogleDan]

The Kidnapped Halflings
There's that one vault where a band of kobolds has a caged up bunch of young halflings. How about that only spawns on a given floor after you encounter the grieving parents? Make them friendly to prevent players from killing them on sight, and have the messages, "The grieving mother mourns the loss of her kidnapped children," and "The grieving father curses the kobold kidnappers under his breath." Then, when you find the standard kobold vault later on (maybe with more big kobolds and some guaranteed curare needles and branded weapons to make them less insignificant), you also find a key (or a one-shot wand of disintegration) to open the cage with. Get the screaming kids back to their parents in one piece for a sizable gold reward. This makes them worth something beyond snack time for troll players

[spudwalt]

I like these ideas! Having stuff like this in Dungeon Crawl would be fun (though the game's already plenty fun without them). I really like that idea with the shopkeeper's key being an unrandart amulet that you can just yoink for yourself, if you so desire; it fits in with other, similar events where what you do is up to the player. (Do you let Pikel's freed slaves go, or kill them for piety/tasty meats?)

Reformed demonspawn of TSO wouldn't hurt themselves with his invokable Cleansing Flame, would they?

[galehar]

The Kidnapped Halflings
There's that one vault where a band of kobolds has a caged up bunch of young halflings. How about that only spawns on a given floor after you encounter the grieving parents?

I don't like much the idea of the dungeon generation being affected by the player exploration (this is also for several other proposals). And if it doesn't, you might find the vault before the parents. That's why I think good quests which rely on the player finding some stuff before some other stuff are hard to come up. It's much easier when it's all set up at the same location. And then, it's mostly just an elaborate vault, or a portal vault.
Also, maybe try to find ideas which can work with the tools we already have.

[Siegurt]

Well, and for the kidnapped halflings, there's no reason the parents have to be found first (or even be on the same level as the kids)

Simple enough:

Parents are neutral Halfling creatures with a script wailing about their lost kids (Whether you find them first or not is irrelevant)
Kids are as-is in current vault, only with a script added about "take us back to our parents" and "Don't eat us" and the like.

If you free the halflings from the pen (either with destruction of the gate or by hacking down the plants) the kids become allies, when you get in LOS of parents the kids become neutral again, and the parents drop (gold?). (You don't technically need to even kill the kobolds, you could scare/teleport/kite them to get them out of the way for a little more flexibility)

If any of the kids die you get the (gold?) halved. If either of the parents are killed you get no reward, if all the kids die (obviously) you get no reward.

Doesn't require any incredibly weird dungeon generation rules (except "if this vault generates, these specific monsters also generate" outside the vault, perhaps on a different level, although that sounds icky)

As an added incentive, if you spot the kobold vault (i.e. it enters your LOS), but don't kill them or make off with the kids under their noses, the halflings will die one at a time after a pre-set interval and be replaced with halfling skeletons (Maybe you could take those to the parents for a sad reward and/or no reward but some flavor text about wishing you could have rescued them earlier)

[johlstei]

Is there dev opposition to vaults that grant allies? I guess it steps on the toes of Yred/Beogh a little, but I think rare but reasonably strong companions would be fun. (You'd have to provide a way to turn them down though, or get rid of Oka allies penance.)

[Hirsch I]

I really liked the Elvylion quest idea.
maybe it would be interesting to make quests linked to all the gods. that would make the relations between them much more important, and add some awesome flavour.
example:
Beogh:
When you reach max piety, Beogh sends you, as his champion, on a quest to kill Mennas. if you succeed, you will prove your divine right to lead the orcs, making them much more likely to follow you, and/or leveling them faster. Zin should be furious after that, causing penance-like effects.

TSO:
when you get the blessed weapon from him, he sends you on a quest to purify one of the hells, maybe supported by an Angelic follower. if you succeed, you will be named Commander of the Divine Army, reducing the cost of the angelic summon, or even blessing your own body, giving you wings, and some resistances. Makhleb should be pissed, summoning demons after you.

Lugonu:
with the altar corruption thing, she is probably the antagonist of the Crawl pantheon. she should give you a quest to corrupt a number of altars, reducing the power of the respective gods in the Dungeon. I'm unsure about the reward. the other gods should punish you for that.

those are just examples. if you guys like that, we can think about it a little more.

[ZionRavescene]

What if for each of Pikel's slaves freed, there is a small chance that one will open up a shop on Pikel's corpse...you can even make the shop bondage themed for extra flavor (whips, rod of striking, nets, amulet of stasis, wand of enslavement, distressingly furry gloves , etc.). I think this would be a lot more subtle, and a lot less stereotypical than a distraught NPC asking you to save their husband/ cousin/ bff/ whatever.

[amethystdeceivers]

Upon striking the last blow on a unique, there is a chance that this unique offers a choice: sparing his life (you still get the xp and the credits for defeating him), in exchange for information.

Where's the choice? I don't see any reason not to spare the unique if you get full credit anyway.

[MoogleDan]

The Kidnapped Halflings
There's that one vault where a band of kobolds has a caged up bunch of young halflings. How about that only spawns on a given floor after you encounter the grieving parents?

I don't like much the idea of the dungeon generation being affected by the player exploration (this is also for several other proposals). And if it doesn't, you might find the vault before the parents. That's why I think good quests which rely on the player finding some stuff before some other stuff are hard to come up. It's much easier when it's all set up at the same location. And then, it's mostly just an elaborate vault, or a portal vault.
Also, maybe try to find ideas which can work with the tools we already have.

We already have quite a few interesting full-floor vaults. Perhaps this could be one of those? Or part of a bigger one at least? All stairways generate at A, parents generate at B, kids are trapped at C. Barring teleport tomfoolery, you have to pass by B to reach C. Considering that the difficulty of this vault is going to be extremely limited anyway, having it all spawn on one floor early on helps limit the player's ability to bulldoze through the opposition (although, making the kidnappers depth-dependent, varying between kobolds, orcs, elves, or draconians could help limit that issue... On that note, what could we do with those massive one-kind-of-enemies moat-and-fortress vaults?).

[MoogleDan]

The Translocationist

Fragile, unique friendly spellcaster who spawns extremely rarely in the Abyss or Pandemonium. Shouts out, "I can return us to our world! Just keep them off me for a minute!" Doesn't move, doesn't fight, but very slowly and noisily creates a doorway back to the material realm. He's at 10% of max health, so you'll have to either keep him very safe or just worship Elyvilon and heal him to keep him standing for the duration. It shouldn't be TOO hard, as the only reward here is a fairly easy Abyssal or Pan exit. If you worship Lugonu or Makhleb, he is instead hostile, but poses no real threat.

OPTIONAL: Xom enjoys turning him into a giant newt or teleporting you away the moment he finishes, "NO CHEATING!!!"

[Tiktacy]

For the record, gods are already pretty much quests with different flavor.

[TeshiAlair]

@Tiktacy- If you want to think of it that way, think of a quest as a temporary god with a stricter conduct and a more well defined reward

[1010011010]

Cheap Knock-off
A small vault room featuring a "terrified shop keeper" and a OoD shop Mimic on top an abandon shop.
Once the shop keeper comes into he shouts something and the mimic is identified with exclusions put in place.
You can always kill the Mimic and let him open shop or kill the shop keeper for his Gold.

Again, Small and Vaulty, I'm just having fun with shops.