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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
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rabidweasel wrote:I noticed the low-level skill boosts weren't showing up in the skill window (latest tiles trunk)
rabidweasel wrote:The skill boosts on top of the detection abilities feel very strong but the curse requirement is quite a large drawback.
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smock wrote:Looking good!
In reskilling, after selecting the source skill, the latter skills in the list are relettered.
So if short blades are (a), long blades are (b) and throwing is (c), once I select to reskill from short blades, long blades becomes (a) and throwing becomes (b). The letters should probably stay the same.
(Should specifics like this go on Mantis?)
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If you don't wear any uncursed item, Ash will boost all your known skills up to piety_rank (number of stars).
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You also get a free butcher ability, to make it a bit easier to experiment with the staff skill boost. This is temporary. The plan is to allow Ashenzarites to butcher with their knife even if holding a cursed blunt weapon.
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galehar wrote:smock wrote:In reskilling, after selecting the source skill, the latter skills in the list are relettered.
It has always been this way, it's not related to the recent changes. I'm not sure it's worth fixing, because there are a few cases where a skill can be selected in one menu and not the other.
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joellercoaster wrote:If you don't wear any uncursed item, Ash will boost all your known skills up to piety_rank (number of stars).
I really liked this kind of mechanic for Cheibriados, and I like it for Ash too!
Blades Runner
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galehar wrote:Except this specific Ash power doesn't work like Chei. Instead of giving a boost if you wear cursed items, it does if you don't wear uncursed items. In fact I don't like this conduct. It's akward and unintuitive as shown by the fact that already 2 people misunderstood it. So I might remove it and instead give a greater skill boost for wearing cursed items, as I've suggested on the wiki.
Barkeep
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You also get a free butcher ability, to make it a bit easier to experiment with the staff skill boost. This is temporary. The plan is to allow Ashenzarites to butcher with their knife even if holding a cursed blunt weapon.
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minmay wrote:Combine the two. Cursed items increase the skill boost, uncursed items decrease it, unused slots do nothing. So a naked player wouldn't get anything, and a player with one cursed slot would get more than a player with one cursed slot and one uncursed slot.
smock wrote:In reskilling, after selecting the source skill, the latter skills in the list are relettered.
rabidweasel wrote:Quick suggestion for an issue that cropped up in a recent game: Ash should allow his worshippers to curse weapons of holy wrath. Unless it goes strongly against flavour, I suppose.
njvack wrote:If you're going unarmed and use an uncursed butchering tool instead of the ability, it ticks Ash off. Intended?
njvack wrote:And on the same line, the 'Butcher' ability doesn't count as an "I already have a butchering tool" trigger, so autopickup makes sure I have a least on butchering tool still.
Barkeep
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galehar wrote:The ability is temporary, I'll remove it as soon as I allowed Ashenzarites to butcher while wielding cursed blunt weapon. So I won't bother fixing small details like that.
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rabidweasel wrote:I noticed that 'fake' skill levels in fighting from the low level skill boost don't give HP. WAD? (I can see why you wouldn't want to give heavy casters any more boosts as Ash seems very strong for them currently)
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Why not, but there's a little problem. Now that weapons are melded on transform, what would happen if you wield a cursed weapon of holy wrath and cast necromutation? I suggest we put a warning, and if the player goes with it, he'll take holy damage every turn. Having a weapon of holy wrath melded into your lich body must be painful.
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vintermann wrote:... with the consequence that to get the skill boost, I need to swap off my great randart amulet (which has inaccuracy as its base, even! It was red, so I thought it was cursed already). It's a bit counterintuitive that it goes from no effect to full effect based on taking off one item.
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vintermann wrote:I'm not sure I like the plan for 0.9. Minimum competence in all skills you have is a lot more interesting than boosting the stuff you're already focusing on, IMO.
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galehar wrote:vintermann wrote:I'm not sure I like the plan for 0.9. Minimum competence in all skills you have is a lot more interesting than boosting the stuff you're already focusing on, IMO.
But it's also much weaker. Raising any skill to level 6 is quite cheap. 4 levels of a high skill is worth more than 5 skills raised from 0 to 6. We can keep a boost to low level skills, but we have to tie it to cursed slots and piety, not uncursed gear. And it would be useful only for magic skills I guess.
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TGW wrote:What if Ashenzari let you choose which appropriate skill to boost instead of the old two boosts? This would let people use it to increase their highest skill as well as for picking up new skills if they want. Let the player change the boosted skill for a piety cost.
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galehar wrote:For armour and jewellery, instead of just boosting the highest skill, Ash's boost all corresponding skills by piety_rank - skill_level/3. If fully bounded, the bonus is piety_rank + 2 - skill_level / 4. So big boost to low skills, and smaller one to high skills. Here is a chart to see how it looks.
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smock wrote:galehar wrote:For armour and jewellery, instead of just boosting the highest skill, Ash's boost all corresponding skills by piety_rank - skill_level/3. If fully bounded, the bonus is piety_rank + 2 - skill_level / 4. So big boost to low skills, and smaller one to high skills. Here is a chart to see how it looks.
I like that! Is 0.8 dropping too soon to test a scheme like this? I think would clarify what Ash is about and be pretty well balanced.
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The Mantis wrote:I wish there was some sort of story-like reward for visiting the Altars of Ashenzari throughout the dungeon and healing them.
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The Mantis wrote:What about a skill boost that has a gentle gradient that spikes dramatically towards the final ranks that is amplified by being full bound? I don't like the idea of having a numerical bonus to piety rank calculation, really. You should think about it as though you're playing as the character itself. What would be most interesting/logical for an Ashenzari player from a personal perspective?
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galehar wrote:I've updated my skill boost proposal. Here's the formula:
- Partial bound: piety_rank - skill/5
- Full bound: piety_rank +1 - skill/6
You can see the resulting skill levels for the 2 bonuses at max piety in the first 2 columns of this chart. The rest is the bonus at the various piety levels.
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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.8.0-a0-5941-g5831c72 character file.
1192822 Combatomancer the Conqueror (level 27, 274/274 (282) HPs)
Began as a Centaur Venom Mage on Mar 25, 2011.
Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes (of 3 types) on Apr 2, 2011!
The game lasted 10:57:02 (158081 turns).
Combatomancer the Conqueror (Centaur Venom Mage) Turns: 158081, Time: 10:57:02
HP 274/274 (282) AC 36 Str 11 (12) Exp: 27/1192743 (19582)
MP 38/38 EV 5 Int 26 (27) God: Ashenzari [******]
Gold 5102 SH 12 Dex 13 Spells: 16 memorised, 6 levels left
Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : + s - +6 demon blade of Tyev {flame, rElec}
Res.Cold : + + . Warding : . . v - +2 ice dragon armour (curse)
Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . i - -3 elf buckler {rF+} (curse)
Res.Acid. : . . . Res.Corr. : . P - +1 helmet of the Good {rF+ Int+4}
Res.Poison: + Clarity : + S - -1 dwarf cloak (curse)
Res.Elec. : + Spirit.Shd : . x - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Acc+3 Dam+3}
Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . e - +4 centaur barding (curse)
Res.Mut. : + Ctrl.Telep.: . w - cursed amulet of resist mutation
Res.Rott. : . Levitation : . E - cursed ring of protection from magic
Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . X - cursed ring "Thriepew" {rPois rF+}
@: very quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: hooves 3, deformed body 1, deterioration 2, speed 2, fast metabolism 2, -10% mp, spit poison
1, tough skin 3
a: Spit Poison, Butcher, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion
You escaped.
You worshipped Ashenzari.
Ashenzari was exalted by your worship.
You were hungry.
You visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and saw 76 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You visited 1 Labyrinth.
You visited 4 portal chambers: sewer, ossuary, spiders nest, wizlab.
You collected 8965 gold pieces.
You spent 3883 gold pieces at shops.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
s - the cursed +6,+6 demon blade of Tyev (weapon) {flame, rElec}
(You found it on level 2 of the Hive)
It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes and up to
double damage against particularly susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades
are also staple armaments of hydra-hunters.
It insulates you from electricity.
It has a curse placed upon it.
U - the +6,+6 Lehudib's crystal spear (quivered) {return, Int+3}
(You found it on level 2 of the Swamp)
A skilled user can throw it in such a way that it will return to its owner.
It affects your intelligence (+3).
Presumably this relic led to the invention of the famous spell, or maybe
the other way around.
Missiles
b - 2 curare-tipped +0 needles
m - 4 curare-tipped +4 needles
Armour
e - a cursed +4 centaur barding (worn)
i - a cursed -3 elven buckler of fire resistance (worn)
v - a cursed +2 ice dragon armour (worn)
x - the cursed +3 pair of gauntlets of War (worn) {Acc+3 Dam+3}
(You found it on level 22 of the Dungeon)
It affects your accuracy (+3).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+3).
It has a curse placed upon it.
P - the cursed +1 helmet of the Good (worn) {rF+ Int+4}
(You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)
It affects your intelligence (+4).
It protects you from fire.
It has a curse placed upon it.
S - a cursed -1 dwarven cloak (worn)
Magical devices
a - a wand of slowing (7)
c - a wand of draining (12)
d - a wand of invisibility (2)
g - a wand of teleportation (0)
h - a wand of digging (7)
j - a wand of hasting (0)
p - a wand of teleportation (4)
u - a wand of teleportation (5)
A - a wand of healing (0)
B - a wand of disintegration (3)
F - a wand of lightning (0)
J - a wand of hasting (1)
N - a wand of teleportation (9)
O - a wand of disintegration (7)
Comestibles
l - 3 royal jellies
Scrolls
I - a scroll of curse weapon
T - 2 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
f - an uncursed ring of teleport control
r - the ring "Furoa" {rPois Str+4 Int+4}
(You found it on level 4 of the Swamp)
[ring of poison resistance]
It affects your strength (+4).
It affects your intelligence (+4).
t - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
w - a cursed amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
C - the cursed necklace of Bloodlust {*Rage +Rage MR Str+2 Int-2 Dam+3 Stlth- Curse}
(You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Vaults)
[amulet of rage]
It affects your strength (+2).
It affects your intelligence (-2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+3).
It increases your resistance to enchantments.
It makes you angry.
It may recurse itself.
It makes you less stealthy.
It has a curse placed upon it.
E - a cursed ring of protection from magic (right hand)
L - the amulet of Ploem {Spirit Stlth++}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[amulet of guardian spirit]
It makes you much more stealthy.
M - the ring "Bahemy" {AC+3 Stlth++}
(You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)
[ring of protection]
It affects your AC (+3).
It makes you much more stealthy.
X - the cursed ring "Thriepew" (left hand) {rPois rF+}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[ring of poison resistance]
It protects you from fire.
It has a curse placed upon it.
Potions
q - 8 potions of healing
z - a potion of magic
G - a potion of brilliance
H - a potion of resistance
Books
K - a book of Annihilations
WARNING: If you fail in an attempt to memorise a spell from this book, the
book will lash out at you.
Spells Type Level
*Poison Arrow Conjuration/Poison 6
Orb of Destruction Conjuration 7
Chain Lightning Conjuration/Air 8
Lehudib's Crystal Spear Conjuration/Earth 8
Ice Storm Conjuration/Ice 9
Fire Storm Conjuration/Fire 9
Orbs of Power
k - the Orb of Zot
Miscellaneous
y - a serpentine rune of Zot
Q - a decaying rune of Zot
R - a silver rune of Zot
You had 19582 experience left.
Skills:
* Level 27 Fighting
- Level 2 Short Blades
+ Level 16 Long Blades
- Level 2 Throwing
+ Level 14 Armour
- Level 6 Dodging
- Level 3 Stealth
- Level 2 Stabbing
- Level 4 Shields
- Level 4 Traps & Doors
+ Level 14 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 16 Spellcasting
- Level 11 Conjurations
- Level 1 Charms
- Level 2 Summonings
+ Level 2 Necromancy
- Level 1 Translocations
- Level 3 Transmutations
- Level 4 Fire Magic
- Level 5 Air Magic
- Level 4 Earth Magic
- Level 6 Poison Magic
- Level 3 Evocations
You had 6 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Success Level Hunger
a - Ignite Poison Fire/Trmt #######... Very Good 5 None
b - Mephitic Cloud Pois/Air/Conj #######... Excellent 3 None
c - Stone Arrow Erth/Conj ####### Excellent 3 None
d - Poisonous Cloud Pois/Air/Conj #######... Excellent 5 None
e - Conjure Flame Fire/Conj #######.. Excellent 3 None
f - Bolt of Magma Fire/Erth/Conj #######... Excellent 5 None
g - Alistair's Intoxicat Pois/Trmt N/A Great 4 None
h - Stoneskin Erth/Trmt #######... Excellent 2 None
i - Poison Arrow Pois/Conj #######... Very Good 6 Honeycomb
j - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2 None
k - Summon Butterflies Summ #######.. Excellent 1 None
l - Apportation Tloc #######... Excellent 1 None
m - Olgreb's Toxic Radia Pois N/A Great 4 None
n - Abjuration Summ #######... Excellent 3 None
o - Repel Missiles Air/Chrm #######... Excellent 2 None
p - Regeneration Chrm/Necr #######... Excellent 3 None
Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations
Branches:
Dungeon (27/27) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (4/4) D:9
Elf (5/5) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:11 Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Snake (5/5) Lair:6 Hive (2/2) D:11
Vault (8/8) D:15 Blade (1/1) Vault:6 Crypt (5/5) Vault:4
Zot (5/5) D:27
Tomb: Crypt:2-3
Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
Jiyva
Shops:
D:10: / Orc:3: * Orc:4: %(( Elf:1: ((*= Elf:2: ( Elf:3: ( Elf:4: * Snake:5: *
Vault:2: * Vault:3: +([ Vault:4: = Vault:5: ? Vault:6: = Vault:7: = Vault:8: ?!!
Portals:
Hell: D:14 D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:27
Abyss: D:22 D:25
Pan: D:24
Trove: D:15 (give +2 gold dragon armour)
Annotations
D:14 exclusion: door
Elf:1 exclusion: 2 statues
Lair:8 exclusion: oklob plant
Crypt:2 exclusion: curse skull
Crypt:4 exclusion: 2 curse skulls
Crypt:5 exclusion: curse skull
Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations
You have hooves in place of feet.
Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.
You cover ground very quickly.
You have a very fast metabolism.
You have extremely tough skin (AC +3).
Your body is deteriorating.
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You can spit poison.
Message History
The magic dart hits you!
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You feel weakened.
Helpless, you fail to dodge Sigmund's attack.
Sigmund hits you but does no damage.
Are you sure you want to leave the Dungeon?
You have escaped!
.......................
.########...###########
.#{.#####...# ######.
.##.....##.######...##.
##............##..#..%.
#..#......~~~......####
..###...~~~~.~~......##
.##...~~~~~.~~~~~...#..
..##.~~~~~.@.~~~~~...##
###...~~~.<@<.~~~..##.#
# *...~~~~...~~~~~..##.
,, ...~~~~.~~~..~~..#.
~~....~.~~~~......##
, ~~~.....~~~..##....#
# ~...........#..###
###*,,..###.###.#.#..#
..####.#*..## #######..
#....##################
You could see Sigmund (invisible).
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