DracheReborn wrote:mumra wrote:"ok ... with this much MP, I can afford 3 foo, 2 bar, and 1 baz ... or can I?" etc. (I'm going to call this type of math "supermarket bargain shopping", I think this is actually quite an accurate description)
I was thinking that watching the MP gauge go down gives you a much better feel for how many more critters you can (normally) summon.
Perhaps this could work. But it still wouldn't fix one thing that I'd like to see changed, that with this system you'll still mostly want to spam your best summons, rather than thinking about mixtures. That's the neat thing about the per-spell cap.
I also think this has a mechanical flaw. Casting a spell doesn't always produce the same number of summons, and different spells produce different quantities of summons. This change would require a spells to start producing predictable numbers of summons, and the MP cost would be per-
summon rather than per-cast. So it'd require a big rethinking of how spell costs worked for summoning, and would also be quite different perma-buff costs.
DracheReborn wrote:With a magic number soft cap, well I guess it depends on the actual implementation, but it seems to me that after x number of summons, you'll start getting messages like "You summoned a hydra! You feel the hydra is here for only a short time", etc. Is that more transparent? I'm not sure. Certainly it seems clunky.
You don't usually summon only 1 monster at a time. You'll quickly and naturally figure out e.g. if two casts is filling out your limit on a certain. I perceive the caps increasing with Summoning skill or spell power as well. And in fact I think we can balance the numbers so that you can apply fairly consistent thinking across most spells - i.e. "I can each spell once for maximum benefit, or cast this spell twice if I want slightly more of a particular type but it'll be less MP efficent, and the global cap means right now I can manage 5 or 6 different types at once".
DracheReborn wrote:Re: interface for dismissing summons, wouldn't the soft cap idea have the same problem? You may want to dismiss the earlier critters so that your new summon is of normal duration. I don't think it would have to be too fiddly. How about "Dismiss own summon" from the abilities menu, which you then use to target the critter you want to dismiss?
I described this wrongly. Actually new summons should replace your oldest ones, so it can still be worth casting when you're at the limit, to renew old creatures.
DracheReborn wrote:For all these ideas, there's still the problem of summon spells that summon multiple critters (butterflies, spammals, scorpions, etc). Should there be a per critter cost/count or per cast? For example, if it's per critter and you summon a room full of butterflies, do they use up your cap? And if it is per cast, when do you get the HP/MP or cap number back, when they all die? Etc
There are two different ways to go about this:
1) If per-summon-type caps are worked out correctly, maybe a global cap isn't needed
2) Alternately, each summon has a different 'cost' in how it contributes to the global cap. So 10 butterflies might count as only 1 dragon. Of course all these conversion rates would have to undergo a lot of tweaking and balancing to find a system that worked well, feels fair, and plays naturally.
Overall I'm still confident this system is much better than perma-costs. An important factor is that they will work out the same for everyone whereas an MP/HP cost would make some races particularly overpowered or underpowered as summoners for no obvious reason. Whereas with the caps, races with better summoning apts will be a bit more powerful but in a controlled way, and the reason is obvious.