New species: Mullvad

[Velikolepni]

The Demonspawn species is one of my favorites and one of my favorite mutations is the nightstalker one. Unfortunately, if can require a lot of scumming to get a character with this mutation going and so I think that it would be appropriate to have a species that is designed around it.

Say hello to the mole people ( I would suggest "Mullvad", which apparently is the norwegian word for mole). As for flavor, I would suggest the something along the following lines:

"The mole people are primitive underground dwelling humanoids that use their claws and talons to dig tunnels for their colonies. The underground adaptation has left their eyesight poor, but given them the uncanny ability to blend into the darkness. In addition, they are very good at detecting their prey by sensing the vibrations through the ground".

1) It should get the nightstalker mutation at first level and have it improve in power as the character levels up.
2) It should get the antenae mutation and be unable to wear helmets. However I think that the flavour should be changed and the effect explained as some sort of tremorsense.
3) It should have claws and talons.
4) It should gain the ability at some level (say 7 or so) to use a modified version of the Dig spell in exchange of Breath. The modified version should dig just one square.
5) As far as aptitudes go, I would suggest that it be good with unarmed and dodging, bad with weapons and magic, except maybe earth magic.

This should be a fairly easy species to implement I hope, since all the effects are already there. Do you think that it is interesting enough?

[Krag]

I like it, it feels different enough to me that it could work as a new species. I have never gotten a DS with Nightstalker very far though so I don't know if the Mullvads would be pigeon holed too much into certain playstyles.

2) I'd make the tremor/mole sense similar to antennae except that you could wear helmets if you'd want at the expense of turning off the monster detection while wearing the helmet as it would interfere with sensing things.

[Igxfl]

These would really steamroll the dungeon with Earth Magic.

[some12fat2move]

These would really steamroll the dungeon with Earth Magic.

Not if they had bad MP and INT and the earth magic aptitude was just slightly good like +1. Balance can always be tinkered with.

[Velikolepni]

I have never gotten a DS with Nightstalker very far though so I don't know if the Mullvads would be pigeon holed too much into certain playstyles.

Whether or not they are pigeonholed would depend on their aptitudes. In principle the nightstalker mutation is good for everyone with the possible exception of ranged fighters and firestorm throwing wizards.

[Velikolepni]

These would really steamroll the dungeon with Earth Magic.

An sludge elf earth mage of Ashenzari would be probably better at that.

[Tiber]

Not a bad basic idea. However, I would change tremorsense to be more distinct from antannae in the following ways:
it only detects enemies that don't fly.
it only detects enemies when they move (so sleeping enemies and enemies like oklobs are invisible to it).
large enemies are detected farther away.

Also, for aptitudes, I understand being good with unarmed and earth magic, but I also personally advise that species should have aptitudes balanced enough that they don't become one-dimensional characters. For example, it's optimal for for any merfolk not using elemental staves to always choose polearms as their weapon type. Go too far down that road, and it limits the replay value of your idea.

[varsovie]

4) It should gain the ability at some level (say 7 or so) to use a modified version of the Dig spell in exchange of Breath. The modified version should dig just one square.

If it's proficient in earth magic, I don't see any reason this ability would be preferred to dig/shatter. Also dig wands are common enough.

As far as flavor goes, antenna could go with blurry vision too.

[Velikolepni]

If it's proficient in earth magic, I don't see any reason this ability would be preferred to dig/shatter. Also dig wands are common enough.

As far as flavor goes, antenna could go with blurry vision too.

Maybe they should get it at first level. It would get somewhat obsolete later on, but help at the beginning.

Blurry vision is a very bad mutation and there is already another proposal (the lava orcs) that have trouble with scrolls. It does fit thematically, but what could one give them to compensate?

[Sandman25]

Blurry vision is a very bad mutation and there is already another proposal (the lava orcs) that have trouble with scrolls. It does fit thematically, but what could one give them to compensate?

Increased regeneration/AC/EV while adjacent to rock wall? I always wanted to play as Rock Worm, they are invincible

[Marbit]

A species like this was suggested some years ago and I think even implemented and tested in a patch. Apparently, as a result of the limited vision it had some problems with monsters attacking in diagonal (?). Anyway, I guess you could try to contact that guy and ask him for his patch... tell me what happens.

https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... ecies#grue

[Velikolepni]

A species like this was suggested some years ago and I think even implemented and tested in a patch. Apparently, as a result of the limited vision it had some problems with monsters attacking in diagonal (?). Anyway, I guess you could try to contact that guy and ask him for his patch... tell me what happens.

https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... ecies#grue

I looked at that proposal and it is very similar to this one, but also much more drastic. There is a difference between having the nightstalker mutation and having just half the usual vision range. In addition, the shoutitis mutation that the Grues were supposed to have seems rather self-defeating to me.

Still, I don't understand why the species was not implemented, since none of the commenters in your link mention any real problem with it. I would try the patch, but don't know if it is compatible with 0.12 and with tiles.

[Bim]

Nightstalker was spoke about at length a few months ago (try and find the thread somewhere) and it was found that on the whole, a lot of people found it just a bit tedious to play with for DS and that it was an annoying mutation to get later on. This does sound like a good race, especially if blurry vision was in place to counteract the earth magic buffs.

My only thought is that it would get very pigeonholed into a unarmed EE (which is already a great combo) and be very good at it with talons and claws, as well as nightstalker to get the drop on enemies (ranged attacks are one of the biggest problems for unarmed EE's after all). This isn't necissarily a bad thing, especially as there isn't really an EE 'class' other than Grey Dracs.

[crate]

i would never play a race with intrinsic blurry vision

[pratamawirya]

It already has the nightstalker mutation; I don't think it needs blurry vision too.

Nice proposal, BTW.

The "dig a tunnel downwards" ability would fit this race. Since the ability can be quite strong, maybe make it reduce your max MP/HP permanently a la Deep Dwarves and Mummies?

[Velikolepni]

The blurry vision is really a nasty debuff, in particular since it also harms trap detection significantly. The nightstalker mutation is fun to play with, but blurry vision is too much.

The "dig a tunnel downwards" ability would fit this race. Since the ability can be quite strong, maybe make it reduce your max MP/HP permanently a la Deep Dwarves and Mummies?

This would be a very strong ability, essentially a poorer version of Borgnjor's revivification. If it should be given at all, then only at later levels and the aptitutes would need to be reduced a bit.

[Davion Fuxa]

Even though Blurry Vision is a significant Debuff, I don't see it as a bad addition to the template for a race; one benefit to it is that you are essentially making a reverse-mummy (Delayed Scroll Usage vs No Potion Usage). However, if you include that mutation you better include several buffs to make up for it as well as strategies to get around the debuff (High Evocations for Ring of Teleport or Artefacts with +Blink as an example, maybe high Translocations or Charms for running away when needed).

Write this out a little bit more perhaps more, maybe do a complete listing of the aptitudes and other thoughts you have.

[pratamawirya]

The "dig a tunnel downwards" ability would fit this race. Since the ability can be quite strong, maybe make it reduce your max MP/HP permanently a la Deep Dwarves and Mummies?

This would be a very strong ability, essentially a poorer version of Borgnjor's revivification. If it should be given at all, then only at later levels and the aptitutes would need to be reduced a bit.

Well, not really. The ability has it's own risk too, since it's essentially like a shaft trap: you don't know where you would land on the next level. (You could land in an open area surrounded by yaktaurs, etc....)

Besides, if it becomes usable only at later levels, there won't be many levels for the player to dig downwards into. (And of course if you're on D:27, you can't dig into Zot:1, for example.)

[khalil]

This would be a very strong ability, essentially a poorer version of Borgnjor's revivification. If it should be given at all, then only at later levels and the aptitutes would need to be reduced a bit.

I think it'd be like a teleport scroll that happens to teleport you to the next level. You don't know where you'll end up, and it might be worse than where you started off.

[Bim]

The 'shaft' ability has come up a few times and is mostly shut down because it doesn't add a great deal of tactical thinking and either ends up going really well or going really badly.
As in, you're only going to use it as an absolute last resort and it's either going to save you as you're completely clear of enemies or you'll have just delayed your death by just a few turns as when you meet monsters down a level you'll be no better prepared.

Plus, this couldn't really be an instant ability, so it'd make it hard to have much use somehow.

[khalil]

The 'shaft' ability has come up a few times and is mostly shut down because it doesn't add a great deal of tactical thinking and either ends up going really well or going really badly.
As in, you're only going to use it as an absolute last resort and it's either going to save you as you're completely clear of enemies or you'll have just delayed your death by just a few turns as when you meet monsters down a level you'll be no better prepared.

Isn't that basically what teleport does?

[mumra]

Remember you get a free turn the first time you arrive on a level. So this is maybe slightly better than a teleport in some cases.

[Bim]

It's similar to teleport but with teleport you could have pretty much cleared the level before using it (granted, you could do this with the floor below) and you can also use control teleport. I guess if there's blurry vision 2 or whatever then this would be an ok alternative as you can't read scrolls, but it seems as though this would be an absolute last resort when you completely run out of any means of escape options (which only really happens early game or after some very unlucky stick flame incidents) as it's extremely dangerous.

I can see the point in it, I just think that it's not a very good/interesting mechanic.

[XuaXua]

Rather than antennae, you can say their heads are simply too sensative to wear helmets.

[prozacelf]

Or just a "mis-shapened head" mutation