Success With Warpers?

[Jarlyk]

Warpers have always appealed to me, as I'm a big fan of mobility and flexibility. The only problem is that so far all I've accomplished with them is creating hordes of blinking ghosts. I realize you can get Translocations later on and work with a different background to start, but I'd really like to find a way to make this background successful. Has anybody had good success with Warpers and can offer some suggestions?

Here's the approach I'm currently taking:

* I've mainly been trying Demonspawn and High Elves as species.
* For gods, I tend to pick based on what items I've found so far and whether I find early altars. Mostly I've gone with Ash (if I get a lot of curse scrolls early), Nemelex or Fedhas (when I find an altar on D:2 for instance.) I've also considered Okawaru, but haven't tried that yet.
* I focus my initial skill training on my weapon (usually long swords.) If I'm playing Demonspawn, I also allocate some xp to bring up my various 0.8 skills to 1.0, since it doesn't take much.
* I like to get a few levels in Stealth early too, since I'm kinda fragile, but don't have any direct damage spells, so I'll divert 33% xp to this once I get my weapon skill around 5 or so.
* I tend to pick up the first ring mail I find, so that I have a bit more AC to survive in melee.
* For spells, I use Shroud of Golubria when I'm going to fight something tough and Blink when I want to reposition or get away. I still haven't used Portal Projectile yet, though it seems like a good way in principal to kill priests.
* I pick up ammo in hopes of eventually getting a decent ranged weapon. Javelins and blowguns are both great when I can find them. Otherwise I use darts before engaging in melee.
* I tend to spend a lot of time running away and playing stair hopping games, coming back to kill uniques later.
* Once I get my weapon skill at 7, I switch to Fighting, Dodging, Armor and Translocations (if I'm in ring mail and my Shroud is unreliable). I've tried out various priorities here, usually Dodging highest if I'm still wearing leather or Armor if I'm in ring mail to try and reduce penalties. I might get some points in Bows if I found a good branded bow.

I tend to die before I even get to Lair, usually to ranged attackers, like priests, centaurs or, in one case, a cyclops on D:6. Uniques get me sometimes too, though usually I can escape to stairs and get away.

[rebthor]

Troll Warper is good because trolls are good and the spells in the warper book don't really care about spell power. It's probably a little less good that it used to be only because throwing large rocks is better since they penetrate things but smite targeted large rocks are unbelievably strong.

[Jarlyk]

Started up a Troll to give it a try; never played a Troll before, so it's interesting. Early game is certainly a lot easier than the other species I've tried. I'm pretty much devouring (literally) the first few levels.

[DracheReborn]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I've played similar builds (HuWr and HEWr, mostly).

Basically I train weapon skill until I get Shroud, then I train some Charms until Shroud has a good failure rate (I target ~10%). Then train more weapon skill, then dodging and fighting. I don't train TLoc beyond the initial skill until much later - as rebthor says, spellpower isn't needed and I usually find the initial amount to be adequate.

Portal Projectile is very nice with a blowgun. In general, I wouldn't get into a smite combat with orc priests though - the priests can smite back! As usual, it's best to take them in melee.

Darts and tomahawks are quite common and almost mandatory to soften up enemies before melee. Don't be shy with your darts of dispersal - they don't work if they don't do damage, so they lose effectiveness pretty quickly.

Don't spread out your training too early. Focus on important things like weapon/dodging/fighting. For example you can use bows and slings at 0 skill.

If you're dying to ranged attackers too often, well remember that you're primarily a melee dude. Use corners, etc to draw them close. Try to peel off pack enemies one by one. Avoid OOD monsters.

[Lasty]

The warper I won with (https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9682&p=132805) was a human, and focused on M&F at the start, before transitioning into a longbow. I spent no XP on any magic skills until I had ~13 M&F and ~10 Dodging.

It might be easier to go with a halfling, use short blades, and then pick up the first sling you can find. Usually there's one in the first few levels of the dungeon, and with a +4 apt you can easily make them deadly even with the late start.

[Jarlyk]

It might be easier to go with a halfling, use short blades, and then pick up the first sling you can find. Usually there's one in the first few levels of the dungeon, and with a +4 apt you can easily make them deadly even with the late start.

I tried out your suggestion, since I'd never tried Halflings before. What I noticed is that the only spell I used much was Blink (fighting ogres and uniques); I didn't use Shroud nearly as much, since I wasn't in melee as often (found a nice early sling.) Worked reasonably well until a centaur found me and I tried to sling stones at it instead of closing the door and running away. Was interesting, though.

Was reading a bit and I just found out that Portal Projectile includes an accuracy bonus! If I'd known that, would've actually used it; I thought it was only for smiting dangerous things behind other monsters. I think I'll try this combo again and see how it goes.

[dirtywick]

I have won with a HaWr of Oka > TSO. You'll end up with plenty of bullets and some sling options. I trained slings and short blades and opted into long blades later with cross training, but by end game I was using mostly haste and a blessed blade and stacks of silver bullets. Early ranged monsters are the only threats so don't be shy about burning through wands to take them out, everything else can be solved by blink and a sling in open, explored areas.

I would think that Wz would be a more versatile background for a similar experience though.

[Tiber]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Naga Warper. Teleportation helps make up for their biggest weakness, and their high HP and decent aptitudes help them kill stuff without the benefit of starting with offensive spells.

[dirtywick]

Also the poison spit ability is very good in early D. Blink and poison spit would probably carry you though a lot of early D.

[sanka]

Worked reasonably well until a centaur found me and I tried to sling stones at it instead of closing the door and running away.

One small thing you may not know about ranged combat:
Centaurs do not use their bow in melee range, instead they hit you unarmed or with a weapon. This is usually much safer: in my experience both their accuracy and damage is much weaker.
Since you can use your sling fine in melee range, it may be useful to fight them in melee range if you can. You may have a chance next time if you close the door, wait for the centaur to open it, then step next to it, and shoot it from there.