Hybridize, howto ?

[mopl]

I've already played and won some backgrounds, but never hybrids (played and smashed them early !)

In previous games, if I played :

Melee fighters : train weapon, armour, fighting and smash everything
Spellcasters : I've mainly played Wz, acting as Cj/FE who burned everything with Firestorm or Shattered the whole dungeon
Stabbers : no comment

When trying hybrids I have always the same problems :
They're not strong enough to melee
Their spells do not enough damage to deal alone with enemies

Against a melee fighter, it's OK : I boost myself, cast some spells, and finish him with weapon.
But it's awful against range opponent...

What BG would you advice to learn how to play an hybrid ?
NB : I wouldn't like to play a summon-based combo (Yred included !) Thx

[Sar]

Well if by hybrid you mean a dude who is good in melee and can also sling conjurations around, I find it's easier to start some elementalist, get your book spells and some defenses, and then get some melee skill (you'll probably have some weapons to choose from).
You can still hit weaker dudes with 0 weapon skill and with a good weapon it's good.

[sanka]

Almost every character in crawl wants to learn some melee, sooner or later. I guess you want to try one which starts as some kind of caster but branches early.

I do not know if you have tried transmuters (which are very strong, and uses magic and melee combat from the begining), or skalds (which are not so strong but also use spells with melee). Since you did not mention them, I guess you have a character in your mind which can cast damaging spells and also kill enemies with weapons.

If you have one way to kill enemies, usually you do not want to "waste" xp early on to gain an other way. Instead, you train some defense, and melee them without any weapon skill using a fast branded (venom, elec) weapon. (Actually you can use a big slow one if you are good at estimating the potential damage of the enemies during two turns.)

So one possible skill order: 1. Train magic skills till you can cast the spells from your starting book that you want. 2. Train dodging, till you has ~20 EV. 3. Choose a good weapon, and train it.

Two easy ways to try it:
1. Necromancer. Train necromancy to about 8. Then turn on dodging for a long time. Pick up a weapon which has a good brand (pain, elec, venom) or use lethal infusion.
2. Ice elementalist. Use ozo's armour, maybe condensation shield for defense. After you have your spells online, you still want to have some dodging.

The other "Mage" backgrounds also work well.

An other nice and fun way to "hibridize" early is to start with a melee background and go Kiku or Vehumet. It's much much weaker then the former, but it can be fun. A HEGl of Vehumet or DEGl of Kiku can be very enjoying to play for me.

[Tiktacy]

Good hybrid species:

Tengus, merfolk, nagas, draconians, Deep dwarf

Good hybrid gods:

Ashenzari, cheibriados, nemelex

Note: all 3 of these gods can be tough to get used to, especially cheibriados. I personally recommend ashenzari, he us the easiest to understand.

Personal favorite hybrid combos:

MfGl of oku--> Chei
NaFi of Chei
DrFE of ashenzari
OgHu of ashenzari
DDNe of ashenzari/Kiku/nemelex
DDEE of Makhleb
TeFE of ashenzari/nemelex
MfTm of Chei
MfIE of ashenzari/Chei/vehumet
TeAE of ashenzari



Generic advice:

Starting out playing a solid melee character and switching to support magic later on is often the easiest choice.

Necromancy(especially the spells in the necronomicon) are often the key to success with hybrids.

Your first objective is surviving lair and orcish mines. Your second objective is finding haste(if you are a Chei follower, controlled blink)

Weapon training:

Generally speaking, the best weapons to use are either polarms or maces. Polarms are good because they have reaching and tend to scale well with the games difficulty, and they combo well with Chei followers and Mf's. Maces are good because whips of elec are incredibly powerful during early-midgame, can be used to give you extra AC(protection brand) if needed, provide versatility in choices later on(shields vs 2hander) and are easily the most common kinds of weapons in the game. Also, they both cross train with staves, which you should start probably start training the moment you find a lajatang of speed, or even elec(even if you plan on using a shield, staff skill for magic staves can be good for late game). As far as training goes, you will probably want to dump in a bunch at first and then start trickling until you hit in-delay.


Note: I'm not exactly a very good player, I tend to go for whatever is fun rather than whatever is optimal. The advice here is likely not going to lead you to your next amazing victory, but i hope it will lead you in the right direction.

[DracheReborn]

Well technically, just about every character except Trog berserkers or maybe someone doing spell-less conduct is a hybrid

When trying hybrids I have always the same problems :
They're not strong enough to melee
Their spells do not enough damage to deal alone with enemies

Do you mean starting with a hybrid background like Sk/Wr/Tm? It's true that having your skills spread out isn't great in the part of the game when you most want to specialize. So I agree to some extent that these are tougher starts in general (compared with say, an elementalist).

But as has been suggested, you don't have to hybridize right away! Start as melee and pick up spells later, or start with a mage background and pick up weapons and armour later. God choice can help. Veh's wizardry bonus is great for example for heavy armour conjurators. Ash is great for lots of builds, but especially helpful for hybrids who have skills spread out. Oka seems typecast as a melee god, but he's actually a good hybrid god.

Some mage backgrounds also tend towards hybridization, such as Ne, VM, maybe even Wz. I know you said you don't want ally play, but Necromancy is strong just with the pain weapon+Agony+Dispel Undead combo.

[Sar]

NaFi of Chei

how is this a hybrid

The advice here is likely not going to lead you to your next amazing victory

why even bother posting it then

[Tiktacy]

NaFi of Chei

how is this a hybrid

The advice here is likely not going to lead you to your next amazing victory

why even bother posting it then

Like I said, starting with a melee fighter and start pushing for magic later on can be a viable strategy.

It won't lead him to his next amazing victory because it's not very detailed, it just gives some advice on where to start. If I gave any detail at all, you probably would have told me I'm wrong since anything not optimal is immediate wrong on DCA.

[Tiber]

I tend to play hybrids almost exclusively. My skills are often spread all over the place, but I've won a few times.

I would recommend starting with a caster background for the book. It's easier to pick up a passable weapon than it is to find the right book.

Know what spells work with your build. Charms are great for hybrids and spell power isn't as important. I also swear by conjure flame, as it does the same damage regardless of power, and remains useful for most of the game.

Use the advantages you have. Enemies tend to be good at range or good in melee, but not both. If your conjurations skill isn't the greatest, don't start a ranged slug-fest. Retreat around a corner and let it come to you, or stairdance. If that orc warrior is giving you problems, either find a way to take it down from a distance, or avoid it until you're stronger.

Consider your armor. I tend to use ring mail, until I can get dragon armor. Elven armor is your friend. A shield might also be worthwhile.

Don't underestimate evocations. It's not hard to put a few points into it, and wands are plentiful. With the right items, it's a nice jack-of-all-trades skill, and rarely do you need to raise it higher than 10 anyway.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Rule #2 of Crawl: Every character is a hybrid. Even Trog characters would be foolish not to train a bit of Evocations for elemental evokers and rods and such. The only questions are when and how much you hybridize.

When trying hybrids I have always the same problems :
They're not strong enough to melee
Their spells do not enough damage to deal alone with enemies

That sounds to me like you are trying to hybridize too much too early. Step one is to get your primary offense online. This either means getting skilled enough in your starting weapon to deal with the typical main threats, or getting your main workhorse spell online. A nice simple example is Fire Elementalists with Sticky Flame. At the start, train nothing but magic skills until you have Sticky Flame castable with a single-digit failure rate. That can kill basically anything for a long, long time. Sticky Flame requires to be adjacent to the monster, making this a perfect opportunity to train your Dodging skill, and once you are happy with your durability at close range, a weapon skill as well. You can feel free to train your skills up for Fireball at any point before, during, or after training dodging/melee.

Against a melee fighter, it's OK : I boost myself, cast some spells, and finish him with weapon.
But it's awful against range opponent...

If an opponent is better at ranged combat than you, the solution is always the same: get close to him safely. Lead him around corners, close doors to force him to come and open them, stand behind other monsters (note that certains monsters like orc priests can target you even with other creatures in the way), read scrolls of fog, or anything else which allows you to get close to them without them using their ranged attack.

What BG would you advice to learn how to play an hybrid ?

Personally I recommend Wizard and Venom Mage for early hybridization. Sting is effective even with low spellpower, such that some races can start a Venom Mage and survive without putting any more points into magic at all. This combined with the fact that it primarily does damage over time makes it ideal for training melee skills. Then a bit later you get Mephitic Cloud, which confuses enemies, effectively crippling them. Also Venom Mage has a strong incentive to train weapon skills, as you will want a source of non-poison damage once the more deadly poison resistant monsters start showing up in Lair. Wizards get Mephitic Cloud as well, and they get Conjure Flame, which is great for blocking a hallway while you escape, as well as delivering powerful damage-over-time to any creature foolish enough to stand on it. They also get Repel Missiles, which will help with those ranged monsters.

[Tiktacy]

^ this is probably the best advice I've seen so far.

[Sandman25]

I found MfIE of Ash is a natural hybrid, it is easier to get Bardiche to min delay than Ice Storm, and then Bardiche + Bolt of Cold + Freezing Cloud is more powerful than Bolt of Cold + Freezing Cloud + Ice Storm because you don't rely on MP as heavily.

Please see below my stats at XL 12 (Lair 3) from that game.

  Code:

- Level 12.5(17.3) Polearms
 - Level 8.0(10.6) Dodging
 - Level 2.1(4.2) Stealth
 - Level 9.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 6.0(8.7) Conjurations
 - Level 1.3(3.0) Charms
 + Level 12.1(14.5) Ice Magic
 + Level 2.7(5.0) Air Magic
 - Level 3.3(5.7) Poison Magic

a - Freeze                Ice            ####         1%          1    None
b - Throw Frost           Conj/Ice       ######       1%          2    None
c - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######....   1%          3    None
d - Throw Icicle          Conj/Ice       ######..     1%          4    ###....
e - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
f - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   ######....   24%         6    ######.
g - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       ######....   3%          4    ###....

[crate]

so a note: it is generally much much easier (it is guaranteed, in fact) to find a good weapon and armour than it is to find a useful spellbook. Particularly if you want your "hybrid" to do more than just cast charms the best way to approach making a "hybrid" is to start with a book and then pick up melee later, both from the book-rarity standpoint, and also from the "well i have 20 axe skill so there's no point to learning any damage spells ever since it's just a waste of xp" standpoint.

[asdu]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned air elementalists yet. IMO the best start for a melee-focused hybrid character, purely because you have guaranteed access to swiftness and repel missiles, the two best low-level buffs in the game. They help you early, and they stay relevant all the way to your 15th rune.
Kiting stuff with switfness and shock (aiming for multizaps whenever possible), even with just a minimal investment in conjuration/air, can carry you for a surprisingly long time while you build enough weapon skill to be comfortable meleeing enemies. From there you can go for a big-ass weapon and medium/heavy armour and pretty much leave your magic skills alone, or (especially if playing a race that lends itself to it, like high elves) keep working on your spellcasting and aim for a less xp-intensive melee option like a demon blade/whip/trident.

[Sandman25]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned air elementalists yet. IMO the best start for a melee-focused hybrid character, purely because you have guaranteed access to swiftness and repel missiles, the two best low-level buffs in the game. They help you early, and they stay relevant all the way to your 15th rune.
Kiting stuff with switfness and shock (aiming for multizaps whenever possible), even with just a minimal investment in conjuration/air, can carry you for a surprisingly long time while you build enough weapon skill to be comfortable meleeing enemies. From there you can go for a big-ass weapon and medium/heavy armour and pretty much leave your magic skills alone, or (especially if playing a race that lends itself to it, like high elves) keep working on your spellcasting and aim for a less xp-intensive melee option like a demon blade/whip/trident.

Probably that's because the character with Swiftness/Repel Missiles is not really a hybrid. I had a HEAE who cast Tornado while wielding Triple Sword and Longbow but it felt as ranged/melee character mostly.

Here are stats at XL 13, it is hardly a hybrid because kiting with longbow made conjurations excessive.

  Code:

  Skills:
 - Level 4,5 Fighting
 - Level 2,9 Long Blades
 * Level 21,3 Bows
 - Level 5,7 Dodging
 - Level 2,1 Stealth
 - Level 9,0 Traps
 - Level 7,0 Spellcasting
 - Level 4,0 Conjurations
 - Level 1,6 Charms
 - Level 7,6 Air Magic
 - Level 10,1 Invocations


You have 10 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shock                 Conj/Air       #####        1%          1    None
b - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #####.....   1%          2    None
c - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #####.....   1%          2    None
d - Static Discharge      Conj/Air       ######...    1%          3    None
e - Flight                Chrm/Air       #####.....   3%          3    None
f - Phase Shift           Tloc           ##........   99%         5    ####...


[MrPlanck]

Spectral weapon is pretty good if you want to lean melee from the start (which in my experience is easier than spells from the start). Try skald.

[duvessa]

MfGl of oku--> Chei
NaFi of Chei
DDNe of ashenzari/Kiku/nemelex
MfTm of Chei
MfIE of Chei

These are spectacularly stupid god choices for these combos. NaFi is also a really terrible combo in the first place. Any DD in the game other than DDBe, DDHe, or DDAK should use Makhleb.

Probably that's because the character with Swiftness/Repel Missiles is not really a hybrid.

I'm still trying to figure out what this is supposed to mean.

Anyway the easiest backgrounds to use for this are probably the same ones you used for "spellcasters" (which you appear to be using to mean "character that doesn't use melee," along with using "melee fighter" to mean "character that doesn't cast spells" - correct me if I'm wrong). Since at least one person is telling you to play horrible crap like nagas of chei, I should probably mention races as well. Draconian is the basically the strongest species that doesn't teach you completely terrible habits, so consider playing that if you want easier characters.

[Sandman25]

Probably that's because the character with Swiftness/Repel Missiles is not really a hybrid.

I'm still trying to figure out what this is supposed to mean.

I meant that having Charms spells doesn't convert your fighter into a hybrid. Another such school is Hexes. Hybrid has another way to kill monsters in addition to melee/ranged. By this definition IE with nothing but Ozocubu's Armour and Condensation Shield is not a hybrid either, you need to have some Summoning, Conjuration or Conjuration-like spells (Freeze, Sandblast, Pain, Agony...)

[One-Eyed Jack]

Why the fuck would an IE not use freeze

Also here's my skillset for a winning HeAe

  Code:

 + Level 22.9 Fighting
 - Level 12.1 Staves
 - Level 12.0 Armour
 - Level 20.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 5.1 Shields
 - Level 9.1 Traps
 - Level 25.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 9.3 Conjurations
 - Level 18.0 Charms
 - Level 12.4 Necromancy
 - Level 13.0 Translocations
 - Level 7.0 Ice Magic
 O Level 27 Air Magic
 - Level 8.0 Invocations
 - Level 3.6 Evocations

I don't know if this is a "hybrid" or a "pure caster" but I killed a lot of stuff in melee and I cast a lot of spells

[Sandman25]

That's a pure caster IMHO.

[Sar]

looks more like a berserker to me, all that Fighting

[Sandman25]

looks more like a berserker to me, all that Fighting

Why berserker? It's typical for light armour characters who don't benefit much from Armour.

[Sandman25]

Why the fuck would an IE not use freeze

Also here's my skillset for a winning HeAe

  Code:

 + Level 22.9 Fighting
 - Level 12.1 Staves
 - Level 12.0 Armour
 - Level 20.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 5.1 Shields
 - Level 9.1 Traps
 - Level 25.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 9.3 Conjurations
 - Level 18.0 Charms
 - Level 12.4 Necromancy
 - Level 13.0 Translocations
 - Level 7.0 Ice Magic
 O Level 27 Air Magic
 - Level 8.0 Invocations
 - Level 3.6 Evocations

I don't know if this is a "hybrid" or a "pure caster" but I killed a lot of stuff in melee and I cast a lot of spells

Do you have snapshot on XL 12 or something?

[Volteccer_Jack]

That's a pure caster IMHO.

70-ish levels in non-magic skills. If that fits your definition of a "pure" caster, then your definition is useless.

[Sandman25]

That's a pure caster IMHO.

70-ish levels in non-magic skills. If that fits your definition of a "pure" caster, then your definition is useless.

I don't understand why you think pure caster must have 0 Fighting, 0 Dodging, 0 Armour, 0 Staves and 0 Shield

[Sandman25]

That's another example of pure caster (DEFE with Fire Storm)

  Code:

- Level 26.4 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Polearms
 + Level 20.0 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 5.0 Shields
 - Level 25.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 25.0 Conjurations
 - Level 16.0 Charms
 - Level 25.0 Necromancy
 - Level 13.5 Translocations
 - Level 16.4 Transmutations
 - Level 25.1 Fire Magic
 - Level 2.8 Air Magic
 - Level 18.2 Earth Magic
   Level 5.0 Poison Magic
 - Level 25.6 Evocations

Edit. This is how it looked at XL 19:

  Code:

- Level 10.2 Fighting
 + Level 8.7 Polearms
 - Level 4.8 Armour
 - Level 12.4 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 20.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 17.2 Conjurations
 - Level 11.0 Charms
 - Level 14.3 Fire Magic
 - Level 2.8 Air Magic
 - Level 1.5 Earth Magic
 - Level 5.0 Poison Magic
 - Level 10.7 Evocations


[Sar]

  Code:

Melee: Unarmed           |     7 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     7
       Dagger            |       |       |     4 |     3 |     3 |       |       |       |       ||    10
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     2 |       |       ||     5
       Lance             |       |       |       |       |       |    29 |    99 |   243 |   848 ||  1219

Not so pure, is it now?

[Sandman25]

  Code:

Melee: Unarmed           |     7 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     7
       Dagger            |       |       |     4 |     3 |     3 |       |       |       |       ||    10
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     2 |       |       ||     5
       Lance             |       |       |       |       |       |    29 |    99 |   243 |   848 ||  1219

Not so pure, is it now?

Yes, I had +18,+18 lance "Wyrmbane" and used it as backup weapon (or when trying to preserve MP, and also just for fun vs Dragons - first time when I used the weapon). Having such weapon does not make it hybrid. Conjurations was much more effective than the weapon any way.

[crate]

"hybrid" "pure caster" "pure melee" "melee character" "caster"
these terms are all 100% useless since there is no standardized meaning.

So there's no use using them.

[Sar]

Your caster purity has been violated ever since you made the first of those 7 skill 0 UC strikes, no use protecting it now.

[Sandman25]

Your caster purity has been violated ever since you made the first of those 7 skill 0 UC strikes, no use protecting it now.

  Code:

3 toadstools (D:1)


Sorry, I didn't know I must use magic only to kill them

[Hurkyl]

When trying hybrids I have always the same problems :
They're not strong enough to melee
Their spells do not enough damage to deal alone with enemies

In the abstract, you run into problems when you try to do the same thing in two different ways. If you try to build a character who wants to kill most things by hitting them with a stick and wants to kill most things by zapping spells at them, you into the problem that, for most things, you have to pick one or the other, and neither is as good as if you had just stuck with one.

What you want to do is to either develop in a way that your skills support each other, or so that they complement each other.

For example, take your melee character that trains weapon, armor, and fighting, and smashes everything. You might pick up a longbow and train bows. Not enough so that you fail at your competency of absorbing damage and smashing everything, but enough that you can do a fair amount of damage at range, making it that much easier to smash everything.

You could use blaster spells in the same way.

If you're more clever, you might instead pick spells that more directly synergize with your competence at melee. You might learn conjure flame, and toss a cloud of flame beside you so that monsters take massive fire damage while you smash them. You might learn mephitic cloud, to make enemies scatter around confused while you smash them with impunity.

And, of course, you can take spells that directly boost your melee performance, like haste, stoneskin, or phase shift.

What background to use? You might simply try something simple like fighter or monk or gladiator, and whenever you come across a spell book, you ask yourself if/how its spells can be used to augment your character. And even then you don't have to rush to learn the spells: learn them when it makes sense to do so.

[and into]

mopl: Volteccer_jack gave really good and thorough advice here. crate's clarifications are also handy. So, just remember what they said, whatever else comes of this thread. I'd only add that, really, any of the elementalists and also necromancer begin with books that lend themselves nicely to melee, early on (if not right off the bat). Of course anyone can pick up a weapon and swing it—and everyone should. So this is all speaking in relative terms.

Enchanters and transmuters are probably as close as Crawl gets to "hybrids," but only in the sense that they have a game play style that is spell-reliant but distinctly different from just normal melee or melee + buffs (from whatever source). Nonetheless, the term hybrid is really a misnomer, as several others have pointed out. As V_jack said, the question is when and what new stuff should you branch out into. The exact answer varies, but in general, you get skill in your initial "staple" spell / ability / weapon until it is at a solid point, buff up your initial defensive measures, and then consider your options based on what RNG has generated. When you choose one option, generally you should stick with that until it is useful, before you move on to something else. However, be careful not to neglect whatever 'core' set of skills you have developed.

I think "how to hybridize" questions sometimes come from the fact that it isn't always clear what a good goal is for certain backgrounds that start with a spell book. This simplifies a lot and runs roughshod over the fact that there are many ways to successfully play any background, but, assuming you want to go in more of a melee direction relatively early on, here is what I'd recommend:
Fire elementalist, wizard, venom mage: already covered.
Necromancer: animate skeleton, then vampiric draining; regeneration also good but it can wait a bit. Once v. draining is reliable you can start focusing more on defenses, and then melee. Use animate skeleton for minions.
Ice elementalist: start with freeze (very good spell, you keep it for a long time considering it is level 1), get ozo's armor with a bit of charms but mostly ice, then get summon ice beast to something like ~12% or so. An ice beast or two, plus ozo's, gives you a very significant edge in melee. As mentioned before, don't forget you have freeze, also.

EDIT: Sar is right—I didn't mention pain cause you start with it, but on Necromancers, use that to kill from distance, and later on to soften up tough enemies as they approach. Pain also tends to stay useful for a pretty long time considering it is a level 1 spell.

[Sar]

About Necromancers: I would add that Pain is really good - it ignores AC and never misses (well it requires MR check but it's very hard to fail it vs. typical Pain targets).

[Lasty]

"hybrid" "pure caster" "pure melee" "melee character" "caster"
these terms are all 100% useless since there is no standardized meaning.

So there's no use using them.

Expanding a little on what crate said, if you start categorizing your characters this way, you will often find that you're cutting off good options for your characters. When you're playing well, all your characters will be considering when to "hybridize" by picking up new skills and equipment that don't directly augment the thing their starting package does.

All these terms achieve (besides making communication harder) is to narrow your conception of how to build a character.

[some12fat2move]

Well my brain sees it like this:

"melee character"

A character worshiping trog

"caster"

A character who hasn't trained any weapon skill

"hybrid"

A character who has trained weapon skill but isn't worshiping trog

[mikee]

I am not even being deliberately obtuse when I say I have no idea what people mean when they use those terms. Like I can sort of guess that they are these certain archetypes from other games, in that your party might have a tank that does 0 damage and then a wizard behind him who does nothing but frost bolt. These are really not consistent at all with how I think about crawl though.

My brain sees:

"melee character"

a character

"caster"

no idea; a fisherman

"hybrid"

a character

[mopl]

Thanks for all answers, one day AFK and so many advice !

Seems I'll have another try at HESk, OpTm, and have a look at necromancers...

To clarify my first post, I don't consider as hybrids neither fighters who haste/repel-deflect missiles/swift, nor spellcasters who smash popcorn with elemental staff

[Hurkyl]

To clarify my first post, I don't consider as hybrids neither fighters who haste/repel-deflect missiles/swift,

This one is a matter of degree I think. Is your character doing massive damage and brushing off hits naturally through great weapons/armor and excellent physical skills, and using haste as an extra bonus to deal with boss fights or swarms of tough enemies? Or is buffing with haste/stoneskin/repel missies/whatever actually a necessary component for the character to stand toe-to-toe with tougher monsters you commonly see throughout the dungeon?

One of the archetypical hybrids is exactly that: the D&D fighter-mage who buffs with (the D&D analogs of) haste / invisibility / repel missiles / phase shift, possibly debuffs his enemies with slow or cause fear, and then tears everything apart with a good sword or bow. But without the advantage their magic provides, they tend to be rather mediocre.