What stuff to use and how to proceed?

Monday, 9th September 2013, 18:14 by Link

So, I'm at Lair 1 and am a Gargoyle Beserker of Trog with *****. Piety. I'm currently on Lair:2 (Cleared) (So I can make stash), and wanted to know what equipment I should use right now, and how to proceed from this point on? This is one of my better runs, and I really want to know what to do so I don't do something or die cause of something stupid.

Here is the dump:

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c (webtiles) character file. Link the Bludgeoner (Gargoyle Berserker) Turns: 14278, Time: 01:21:53 HP 74/74 AC 32 Str 26 XL: 12 Next: 78% MP 11/11 EV 10 Int 8 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 494 SH 13 Dex 9 Spells: 0 memorised, 11 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + k - +5,+3 flail (protect) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . w - +2 elf ring mail Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : . e - +1 dwarf buckler Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . b - +2 orc helmet Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . g - +2 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . E - +1 pair of dwarf gloves Res.Mut. : + Stasis : . (no boots) Res.Rott. : + Flight : . i - amulet of resist mutation Saprovore : . . . u - ring of protection from magic f - ring of see invisible @: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: claws 1, fangs 1, talons 2, life protection 1, electricity resistance, slow metabolism 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +8 a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Trog. Trog is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 16 of its levels. You have collected 909 gold pieces. You have spent 435 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +3,+1 mace k - a +5,+3 flail of protection (weapon) m - a +1,+0 elven dagger (quivered) r - a +0,+1 elven short sword of venom s - a +1,+3 great mace of draining v - a +0,+7 anti-magic great mace D - a +2,+1 flail of crushing I - a +0,+6 anti-magic great mace J - a +4,+0 eveningstar of protection N - a quarterstaff of freezing S - an uncursed bow of flame T - an uncursed great sword of slicing {god gift} Armour b - a +2 orcish helmet (worn) e - a +1 dwarven buckler (worn) g - a +2 cloak (worn) t - a +1 scale mail of positive energy w - a +2 elven ring mail (worn) E - a +1 pair of dwarven gloves (worn) O - an elven robe of cold resistance Magical devices l - a wand of slowing (14) p - a glowing silver wand y - a wand of flame {zapped: 1} C - a copper wand F - a brass wand Q - a wand of polymorph (16) Comestibles c - 6 bread rations Scrolls d - 4 scrolls of remove curse q - 6 scrolls of teleportation A - 2 scrolls of blinking G - a scroll of identify L - 2 scrolls of fog P - a scroll of enchant weapon II R - a scroll of fear Jewellery f - a ring of see invisible (left hand) h - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion i - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck) n - an uncursed ring of fire u - a ring of protection from magic (right hand) z - a ring of magical power B - an uncursed ring of sustenance M - a ring of ice Potions j - 6 potions of curing o - 3 gluggy pink potions x - 2 potions of might H - a potion of heal wounds K - a potion of agility U - a potion of restore abilities Skills: * Level 9.4 Fighting - Level 15.8 Maces & Flails + Level 10.0 Armour - Level 1.6 Dodging - Level 9.0 Shields You have 11 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/27) Temple (1/1) D:7 Orc (0/4) D:11 Lair (2/8) D:13 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4 ! D:8 = D:9 * D:11 ( Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are resistant to torment. You are immune to poison. Your stone body is very resilient (AC +8). You have very sharp teeth. You have razor-sharp toenails. You resist negative energy. You are resistant to electric shocks. You have a slow metabolism. You can survive without breathing. You are immune to petrification. You have sharp fingernails. Message History A giant centipede is nearby! You sock the giant centipede! You kill the giant centipede! Trog accepts your kill. You see here a giant centipede corpse. You see here a giant centipede corpse. You now have 462 gold pieces (gained 15). There is a stone staircase leading up here. There is a stone staircase leading up here. There is a stone staircase leading up here. You now have 472 gold pieces (gained 10). Key pressed, stopping explore. You now have 494 gold pieces (gained 22). Done exploring. You can't go up here! There is a stone staircase leading down here. Save game and exit? Welcome back, Link the Gargoyle Berserker. Trog says: Kill them all! Press ? for a list of commands and other information. #### ### ##### ###..## ###.# #.#.###### # ##.#..#####...####.......f####### .#.###..##.....#.#PP....P...##f.. ....#.#.#P....#>###.............. ...%............@>............... ................>................ ..................%.............. ................................. ................................. ................................. ...........................(..... ................................. ................................. There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Fannar (D:11) Harold (D:12) Erica (D:10) 3 hydras Erolcha (D:8) The ghost of SomeoneAwful the Jinx, an experienced SpEn of Ashenzari (D:7) 2 hill giants Pikel (D:7) An orc knight (D:12) Joseph (D:8) A cyclops (D:12) 5 spiny frogs A fire drake (D:13) 2 komodo dragons Sonja (D:12) 6 yaks (D:12) A basilisk (Lair:1) A dragon skeleton (D:12) A trapdoor spider (D:11) A hungry ghost (D:11) Eustachio (D:7) Grum (D:9) 2 hippogriffs 3 wolves (D:9) A necrophage (D:12) Edmund (D:7) A manticore (D:9) The ghost of neil the Digger, an average GrEE (D:3) 3 porcupines (Lair:1) 3 slaves (D:7) 2 yellow wasps (D:12) 9 ogres 3 sky beasts 10 centaurs 3 orc warriors A giant goldfish (Lair:2) 4 phantoms 3 crocodiles Sigmund (D:7) Duvessa (D:5) 6 water moccasins 7 giant frogs A warg (D:12) An agate snail (Lair:1) A cyclops zombie (D:11) A wyvern zombie (D:12) An eye of draining (D:12) A wyvern skeleton (D:11) A cyclops skeleton (D:11) 5 killer bees (D:9) A hippogriff zombie (D:12) A troll zombie (D:10) Dowan (D:5) A goliath beetle (D:8) A quasit (D:13) A centaur zombie (D:12) 4 crimson imps 5 iguanas 8 orc priests 3 jellies 6 hounds 2 gnoll shamans 7 orc wizards 5 worker ants 2 scorpions (D:12) A big kobold zombie (D:13) A sky beast zombie (D:12) 2 mummies 19 green rats A lemure (D:7) 13 adders 4 giant centipedes 12 gnolls 3 giant mites 3 worms A scorpion zombie (D:5) An adder skeleton (D:10) A grey rat (D:7) 3 giant geckos 3 oozes 33 orcs 2 ball pythons (D:5) 2 giant cockroaches (D:1) 15 goblins 10 hobgoblins 20 jackals 9 quokkas 18 bats A giant gecko skeleton (D:5) 7 giant newts 3 hobgoblin skeletons 12 kobolds A kobold zombie (D:6) 14 rats 2 rat zombies 8 ballistomycetes 385 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A cyclops (D:13) 2 yaks (D:13) 3 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A hungry ghost (D:7) Blork the orc (D:7) A hound (D:7) An adder (D:7) A ball python (D:7) A bat (D:7) 3 giant spores A goblin (D:7) A ballistomycete (D:6) 11 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 399 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Link, the Gargoyle Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0 274 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1 559 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails 793 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/2 1053 | D:2 | Acquired Trog's second power 1523 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 28/28 MP: 3/3 1719 | D:3 | Noticed neil's ghost (average GrEE) 1727 | D:3 | Killed neil's ghost 1727 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails 1727 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/33 MP: 4/4 1955 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails 2125 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/38 MP: 5/5 2296 | D:4 | Found Weshrast's Distillery. 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2861 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 2889 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails 3143 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 43/43 MP: 6/6 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Duvessa 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Dowan 3346 | D:5 | Killed Duvessa 3348 | D:5 | Killed Dowan 3418 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails 3449 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 3511 | D:5 | Acquired Trog's third power 4139 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/48 MP: 7/7 4219 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails 4729 | D:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails 4934 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4966 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5145 | D:7 | Noticed Eustachio 5152 | D:7 | Noticed SomeoneAwful's ghost (experienced SpEn) 5160 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 52/52 MP: 8/8 5192 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 5241 | D:7 | Killed SomeoneAwful's ghost 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 5545 | D:7 | Noticed Pikel 5570 | D:7 | Killed Pikel 5740 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 5787 | D:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails 6020 | D:7 | Noticed Edmund 6042 | D:7 | Killed Edmund 6153 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 57/57 MP: 9/9 6317 | D:7 | Received a gift from Trog 6510 | D:7 | Noticed Sigmund 6517 | D:7 | Killed Sigmund 7242 | D:8 | Noticed Erolcha 7257 | D:8 | Killed Erolcha 7329 | D:8 | Found Plopacih's Jewellery Shop. 7338 | D:8 | Noticed Joseph 7345 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 7358 | D:8 | Killed Joseph 7358 | D:8 | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails 7666 | D:8 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 5 turns 7673 | D:8 | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 210 gold pieces 7900 | D:9 | Found Teulaw's Assorted Antiques. 7970 | D:9 | Bought a potion of curing for 56 gold pieces 7978 | D:9 | Noticed Grum 7994 | D:9 | Killed Grum 8265 | D:9 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 8787 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 8864 | D:10 | Noticed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Killed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Reached skill level 14 in Maces & Flails 8878 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 51/61 MP: 10/10 9278 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 9296 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 9433 | D:11 | Received a gift from Trog 9495 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 9576 | D:11 | Found Klecuoce's Antique Weapon Shoppe. 9810 | D:11 | Noticed Fannar 9823 | D:11 | Killed Fannar 10085 | D:12 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 10091 | D:12 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 10175 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails 10504 | D:12 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 10513 | D:12 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 10735 | D:12 | Noticed an orc knight 10764 | D:12 | Killed an orc knight 10953 | D:12 | Noticed Harold 10971 | D:12 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 65/67 MP: 1/11 10989 | D:12 | Killed Harold 11089 | D:12 | Received a gift from Trog 11246 | D:12 | Noticed Sonja 11280 | D:12 | Killed Sonja 11623 | D:12 | Upgraded the game from 0.13-a0-2995-g9a84c3d to 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c 11662 | D:13 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 11729 | D:13 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 11743 | D:13 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 11915 | D:13 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 12045 | D:13 | Got a steaming ring mail 12058 | D:13 | Identified the cursed -2 ring mail "Dynaogg" {Dex-5 Int-5} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 12097 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 12862 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [potion of beneficial mutation] 13340 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Trog 13630 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Mace | 88 | 125 | 348 | || 561 Flail | | | 6 | 853 || 859 Invok: Berserk | 1 | 3 | 11 | 17 || 32 Burn Spellbooks | | | | 4 || 4 Brothers in Arms | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | | 1 || 1 Use: Scroll | 11 | 8 | 9 | 15 || 43 Potion | | 4 | 9 | 6 || 19

Monday, 9th September 2013, 18:20 by Amnesiac

I think you'd do better with some dodging(instead of shields) and a great mace

Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:09 by Link

Oh, OKay then, I just got god gifted a +5,+6 dire flail of Holy Wrath, should I use that w/o a shield then?

Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:31 by Lasty

If you have access to plate armour, you should probably wear it. If you don't, you might consider dipping your toes into Orc to acquire some.

Monday, 9th September 2013, 19:45 by Amnesiac

dire flail of holy wrath is an ok weapon, it doesn't need a lot of skill and it's a bit faster. I think it should work ok if you use that great mace of draining for living things, a dire flail of HW for undead/demon stuff and an anti-magic great mace for casters. also, why are you carrying that +0,+6 anti-magic great mace if you have a +0,+7 one? Also a mace, a dagger, a short sword... And everything else that is not a mace. A flail of crushing seems useless, too.

Monday, 9th September 2013, 21:53 by Abominae

If you want to use a shield, I would get M&F to 16 and use that Eveningstar of Protection. This should last you until Trog hooks it up with a better one-handed mace; you can also use the new Vorpalize scroll to try for a better brand on the Eveningstar. Get Shields skill to 15 when you find a regular sized one.

If you don't care about using a shield, immediately equip that +0, +7 anti-magic Great Mace and train nothing but M&F til 20. Drop all your other weapons because they're not nearly as good. Dump your EW scrolls into it because it is your final weapon.

After you have your weapon trained... Well, you're a Be. Train fighting/armour to like 15-20 or whatever. It doesn't matter because you have at most like 5 skills to train. If you want EV eventually, start picking Dexterity on your stat picks and grab up some dodging. If you want a ranged option (you don't need one, but you may want one), pick something that lets you do that (Evo/Xbow/Bow).

Like stated earlier by Lasty, find yourself some plate mail. You can go rummage through Orc now, or you can do it after you clear Lair. If you don't find a branded plate armour, you should still check the normal ones. I know they can be enchanted to +3; I don't know if you can find one higher than that.

Monday, 9th September 2013, 22:12 by Siegurt

It's possible for a "non-glowy" armour to be up to +4:

Code:: x_chance_in_y(item.plus - 2, 3)

However it's unlikely

Monday, 9th September 2013, 23:22 by and into

Anti-magic great mace is indeed an end-game worthy weapon, but you are fairly likely to get either a great mace of freezing or flaming at some point, and the Anti-magic mace already has a good enchantment level for damage, so I wouldn't burn *all* your scrolls on that. (If the Anti-M great mace wasn't already well-enchanted I would agree, dump some scrolls on it, but it is not actually needed in this case. A few scrolls of enchant weapon 1 on the Anti-M great mace wouldn't hurt, but nothing more is necessary.)

A great mace of freezing/flaming with an anti-magic back up for when you square off against magicky types will be a great combo.

Not your priority, but eventually, with a berserker, you might as well get a longbow or crossbow online too. Whichever you choose, get appropriate skill to level 14, which is not too bad even without good aptitudes, triply so for a berserker who has tons of experience to spare even in a 3-rune game where you skip floors when you feel like it. Don't let the bad aptitude scare you. Turning your enemies into pincushions is awesome.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 00:53 by Link

Thanks for the advice guys Abominae and and into! I have a question, I'm going for the Great anti-magic mace and have cleared up to Lair:7, I also uncovered the spiders nest, and had found the ocrish mines before, so What so should I do now, Spiders Nest, Lair 8 or The Ocrish Mines? Also anyone have tips on when to use zerker abilities and when not to?

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 02:05 by and into

Probably lair 8, then orcish mines, but be careful on lair 8 and on mines 4. Usually not too bad, but they can vary, especially mines 4. If something really gnarly is down there do not hesitate to leave entirely and come back later when you are higher level. After either completing the mines or running away if you have a tough pack of enemies blocking the way, you should continue onward with dungeon wherever you left off. Once you find the entrance to Vaults, you get another branch point. Usually doing vaults 1 to 4 when you find entrance to vaults is fine. For your character you should be fine, though you'll encounter some enemies you haven't seen before who have some tricks up their sleeves.

Berserker tips:

Remember that berserk requires (counter-intuitively) a certain degree of finesse and discretion. Get used to doing tactical retreats into familiar terrain before going berserk on melee foes. You can't always do that for ranged threats, but do your best to minimize the danger of your period of vulnerability after berserk nevertheless.

Trog's Hand tends to be underestimated among newer players, it is VERY good. Piety cost is quite low, it gives a significant boost to HP regeneration, and it increases your MR. If a nasty spellcaster has a direct line of sight to you (you can check by hitting "f" once and seeing if you can line up your sight), then consider popping Trog's Hand. It doesn't guarantee protection, but it helps against all things that check MR, including effects like confuse, paralysis, and banishment. (Note that giant eyes have a paralysis stare attack that does not check MR, but they are a special case.)

Brother in arms is very powerful, but remember that its success rate depends on your piety, and it costs piety to use it. This does NOT mean be stingy with it, on the contrary you use BiA when you need to. It is your strongest ability. But, it does mean that, if you have used BiA recently and find yourself in need of it again, it is a good idea to check the failure rate first on your abilities screen. If the failure rate is very high you may need to reassess your situation.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 13:03 by Mankeli

and into wrote:Brother in arms is very powerful, but remember that its success rate depends on your piety, and it costs piety to use it.

Your piety also affects the quality of brothers summoned and the difference between an ogre and a stone giant is huge.

http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php? ... rs+in+arms

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 18:27 by Link

Okay, Wow, so I just cleared out the Mines and Lair, Not that bad at all. What should I do now? And can I drop any of the stuff I got in the stash or what should I keep and so on? here is the latest dump.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-3016-gcb2faac (webtiles) character file. Link the Bludgeoner (Gargoyle Berserker) Turns: 31325, Time: 03:00:26 HP 97/97 AC 32 Str 27 XL: 15 Next: 53% MP 4/4 EV 9 Int 8 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 1019 SH 0 Dex 9 Spells: 0 memorised, 14 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + v - +3,+7 great mace (antimagic) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . Z - +3 dwarf scale mail {MR+} Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . G - +2 orc helmet Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . g - +2 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . E - +1 pair of dwarf gloves Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . (no boots) Res.Rott. : + Flight : . B - amulet of faith Saprovore : . . . u - ring of protection from magic f - ring of see invisible @: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: large and strong wings, claws 1, fangs 1, talons 2, life protection 1, electricity resistance, slow metabolism 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +11 a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion You are on level 4 of the Orcish Mines. You worship Trog. Trog is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels. You have collected 2730 gold pieces. You have spent 1731 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +5,+7 dire flail of holy wrath e - the +11,+7 mace of the Hills {crush, rN+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It protects you from negative energy. j - an uncursed dagger of chaos (quivered) {Psyche} k - a +2,+4 great mace of draining v - a +3,+7 anti-magic great mace (weapon) N - a +0,+4 anti-magic dire flail O - the lajatang of Tortfeasance {god gift, slice, MR++ Int+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It affects your intelligence (+1). It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. T - a +2,+3 orcish mace V - an uncursed glowing war axe Armour g - a +2 cloak (worn) r - a +1 cloak of poison resistance w - a +3 elven ring mail E - a +1 pair of dwarven gloves (worn) G - a +2 orcish helmet (worn) X - a +0 shield of reflection Y - the -3 helmet of Klura {Str+4 Stlth+} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) It affects your strength (+4). It makes you much more stealthy. Z - a +3 dwarven scale mail of magic resistance (worn) Magical devices l - a wand of slowing (14) p - a wand of fireball (5) s - a wand of teleportation (8) t - a wand of digging (10) y - a wand of flame (11) C - a wand of paralysis (13) D - a wand of lightning (2) F - a wand of disintegration (12) H - a wand of confusion (14) I - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 2} Comestibles c - 3 bread rations Scrolls d - 3 scrolls of remove curse q - 4 scrolls of teleportation A - 2 scrolls of blinking L - 2 scrolls of fog Jewellery f - a ring of see invisible (left hand) n - an uncursed ring of fire u - a ring of protection from magic (right hand) B - an amulet of faith (around neck) M - an uncursed ring of ice Potions b - 2 potions of resistance o - 3 gluggy pink potions x - 2 potions of might z - 2 potions of flight K - a potion of agility U - 2 potions of restore abilities Skills: + Level 14.5 Fighting - Level 0.3 Axes - Level 20.0 Maces & Flails + Level 10.4 Armour + Level 4.4 Dodging Level 9.0 Shields You have 14 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/27) Temple (1/1) D:7 Orc (4/4) D:11 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:13 Swamp (0/5) Lair:3 Spider (0/5) Lair:3 Slime (0/6) Lair:8 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:4 ! D:8 = D:9 * D:11 ( Orc:2 + Orc:4 [(}?}(/ Annotations: Lair:2 Stash Floor, Near Down Stairs Lair:7 exclusion: oklob plant Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are resistant to torment. You are immune to poison. You can fly continuously. Your stone body is very resilient (AC +11). Your wings are large and strong. You have very sharp teeth. You have razor-sharp toenails. You resist negative energy. You are resistant to electric shocks. You have a slow metabolism. You can survive without breathing. You are immune to petrification. You have sharp fingernails. Message History The orc hits you with an orcish flail. You sock the orc! You kill the orc! Trog accepts your kill. Things that are here: an orcish flail; an orcish chain mail; an orc corpse You offer a prayer to Trog. The orc corpse is consumed in a column of flame. Trog is exalted by your worship. Things that are here: an orcish leather armour; an orcish mace HP restored. There is an entrance to Crai's Antique Armour Shoppe here. There is an entrance to Crai's Antique Armour Shoppe here. Key pressed, stopping explore. You now have 1019 gold pieces (gained 24). Done exploring. Done exploring. Done exploring. Char dumped successfully. ##.....#.........∩..# ##....... #...................## ######## ##...................# ##.............(...## ##.......)))....### ##......).......# ##..............## ##................# #.......#.....@#.## ##..#.........#### ###.#.......## #...........### ##.........##.## #......<.......# ##..........#.## ####...#....## ##..#....# There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Donald (Orc:3) An orc warlord (Orc:2) Fannar (D:11) Harold (D:12) Josephine (Orc:2) Erica (D:10) An ogre mage (Orc:4) 7 hydras An orc high priest (Orc:2) Urug (Orc:2) 3 catoblepae (Lair:8) 13 death yaks An iron troll (Orc:2) Erolcha (D:8) A lindwurm (Lair:8) The ghost of SomeoneAwful the Jinx, an experienced SpEn of Ashenzari (D:7) 2 hill giants Pikel (D:7) 3 orc sorcerers 3 orc knights Joseph (D:8) A cyclops (D:12) A sixfirhy (Orc:2) 2 griffons Maurice (Orc:2) A deep elf summoner (Orc:4) 8 black mambas A queen ant (Lair:3) Psyche (Orc:3) 8 spiny frogs An elephant (Lair:7) An orb spider (Lair:3) A fire drake (D:13) A wandering mushroom (Lair:4) A troll (Orc:1) A hellwing (Orc:3) 8 komodo dragons Sonja (D:12) 3 two-headed ogres (Orc:4) A polar bear (Lair:4) 23 blink frogs 41 yaks 2 basilisks A wyvern (Lair:8) A dragon skeleton (D:12) A trapdoor spider (D:11) A hungry ghost (D:11) Eustachio (D:7) Grum (D:9) 6 hippogriffs A boulder beetle (Lair:6) 6 wolves A necrophage (D:12) Edmund (D:7) A manticore (D:9) 11 soldier ants (Lair:3) 5 elephant slugs The ghost of neil the Digger, an average GrEE (D:3) 12 porcupines A swamp drake (Lair:3) 3 slaves (D:7) 2 yellow wasps (D:12) 20 ogres 3 sky beasts 10 centaurs A black bear (Lair:3) 14 orc warriors 2 giant goldfish 2 boring beetles 4 phantoms 14 crocodiles Sigmund (D:7) Duvessa (D:5) 13 water moccasins 15 giant frogs 9 giant slugs 2 wargs A brain worm (Lair:5) 15 agate snails A cyclops zombie (D:11) A wyvern zombie (D:12) An eye of draining (D:12) A wyvern skeleton (D:11) A cyclops skeleton (D:11) 5 killer bees (D:9) A hippogriff zombie (D:12) A troll zombie (D:10) 4 jellyfish (Lair:4) Dowan (D:5) 3 vampire bats (Orc:3) A goliath beetle (D:8) A quasit (D:13) A centaur zombie (D:12) 4 crimson imps 7 iguanas 25 orc priests 3 jellies 9 hounds 2 gnoll shamans 22 orc wizards 42 worker ants 3 scorpions A big kobold zombie (D:13) A sky beast zombie (D:12) 9 sheep 2 mummies 40 green rats A lemure (D:7) 24 adders 5 giant centipedes 12 gnolls 5 giant mites 3 worms A scorpion zombie (D:5) An adder skeleton (D:10) A grey rat (D:7) 5 giant geckos 3 oozes 145 orcs 2 ball pythons (D:5) A bat zombie (Orc:3) 2 giant cockroaches (D:1) 23 goblins 11 hobgoblins 38 jackals 12 quokkas 4 training dummies (Orc:1) 26 bats A giant gecko skeleton (D:5) 7 giant newts A goblin simulacrum (Orc:2) A goblin zombie (Orc:2) 3 hobgoblin skeletons 12 kobolds A kobold zombie (D:6) 4 orc zombies 18 rats 2 rat zombies 10 ballistomycetes 4 bushes (Lair:8) 11 fungi 11 plants 943 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) 3 ogre magi (Orc:4) 9 death yaks An orc knight (Orc:2) A cyclops (D:13) 2 elephants (Lair:7) A fire drake (Lair:7) A komodo dragon (Lair:8) 8 two-headed ogres (Orc:4) 9 yaks 7 orc warriors (Orc:2) 14 ogres (Orc:4) A giant frog (Lair:7) 2 adders (Lair:8) 5 orcs (Orc:2) A plant (Lair:8) 65 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A deep troll (Orc:4) A two-headed ogre (Lair:8) A hungry ghost (D:7) 2 ogres Blork the orc (D:7) A hound (D:7) An adder (D:7) An orc (Orc:2) A ball python (D:7) A bat (D:7) A giant newt (Lair:3) 3 giant spores A goblin (D:7) A ballistomycete (D:6) 8 fungi 4 plants 29 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 1037 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Link, the Gargoyle Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0 274 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1 559 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails 793 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/2 1053 | D:2 | Acquired Trog's second power 1523 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 28/28 MP: 3/3 1719 | D:3 | Noticed neil's ghost (average GrEE) 1727 | D:3 | Killed neil's ghost 1727 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails 1727 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/33 MP: 4/4 1955 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails 2125 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/38 MP: 5/5 2296 | D:4 | Found Weshrast's Distillery. 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2861 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 2889 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails 3143 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 43/43 MP: 6/6 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Duvessa 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Dowan 3346 | D:5 | Killed Duvessa 3348 | D:5 | Killed Dowan 3418 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails 3449 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 3511 | D:5 | Acquired Trog's third power 4139 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/48 MP: 7/7 4219 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails 4729 | D:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails 4934 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4966 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5145 | D:7 | Noticed Eustachio 5152 | D:7 | Noticed SomeoneAwful's ghost (experienced SpEn) 5160 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 52/52 MP: 8/8 5192 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 5241 | D:7 | Killed SomeoneAwful's ghost 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 5545 | D:7 | Noticed Pikel 5570 | D:7 | Killed Pikel 5740 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 5787 | D:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails 6020 | D:7 | Noticed Edmund 6042 | D:7 | Killed Edmund 6153 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 57/57 MP: 9/9 6317 | D:7 | Received a gift from Trog 6510 | D:7 | Noticed Sigmund 6517 | D:7 | Killed Sigmund 7242 | D:8 | Noticed Erolcha 7257 | D:8 | Killed Erolcha 7329 | D:8 | Found Plopacih's Jewellery Shop. 7338 | D:8 | Noticed Joseph 7345 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 7358 | D:8 | Killed Joseph 7358 | D:8 | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails 7666 | D:8 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 5 turns 7673 | D:8 | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 210 gold pieces 7900 | D:9 | Found Teulaw's Assorted Antiques. 7970 | D:9 | Bought a potion of curing for 56 gold pieces 7978 | D:9 | Noticed Grum 7994 | D:9 | Killed Grum 8265 | D:9 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 8787 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 8864 | D:10 | Noticed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Killed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Reached skill level 14 in Maces & Flails 8878 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 51/61 MP: 10/10 9278 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 9296 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 9433 | D:11 | Received a gift from Trog 9495 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 9576 | D:11 | Found Klecuoce's Antique Weapon Shoppe. 9810 | D:11 | Noticed Fannar 9823 | D:11 | Killed Fannar 10085 | D:12 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 10091 | D:12 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 10175 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails 10504 | D:12 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 10513 | D:12 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 10735 | D:12 | Noticed an orc knight 10764 | D:12 | Killed an orc knight 10953 | D:12 | Noticed Harold 10971 | D:12 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 65/67 MP: 1/11 10989 | D:12 | Killed Harold 11089 | D:12 | Received a gift from Trog 11246 | D:12 | Noticed Sonja 11280 | D:12 | Killed Sonja 11623 | D:12 | Upgraded the game from 0.13-a0-2995-g9a84c3d to 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c 11662 | D:13 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 11729 | D:13 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 11743 | D:13 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 11915 | D:13 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 12045 | D:13 | Got a steaming ring mail 12058 | D:13 | Identified the cursed -2 ring mail "Dynaogg" {Dex-5 Int-5} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 12097 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 12862 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [potion of beneficial mutation] 13340 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Trog 13630 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour 14473 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 14590 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 80/80 MP: 12/12 14626 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Trog 14947 | Lair:3 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 15211 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Trog 15354 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 17620 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 16 in Maces & Flails 17719 | Lair:5 | Received a gift from Trog 19976 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 17 in Maces & Flails 20542 | Lair:7 | Gained mutation: Your wings are large and strong. [gargoyle growth] 20542 | Lair:7 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 90/90 MP: 13/13 21191 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Trog 21407 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 18 in Maces & Flails 21936 | Lair:7 | Upgraded the game from 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c to 0.13-a0-3016-gcb2faac 21943 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 22249 | Lair:8 | Received a gift from Trog 22253 | Lair:8 | Got a bloodstained lajatang {god gift} 22255 | Lair:8 | Identified the lajatang of Tortfeasance {god gift, slice, MR++ Int+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) 22616 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 19 in Maces & Flails 23812 | Lair:8 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 23812 | Lair:8 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 24168 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 77/95 MP: 4/14 24960 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 24973 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 20 in Maces & Flails 25112 | Orc:1 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 25284 | Orc:1 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 26068 | Orc:2 | Received a gift from Trog 26080 | Orc:2 | Found Wuddamm's Book Boutique. 26170 | Orc:2 | Noticed Josephine 26183 | Orc:2 | Killed Josephine 26557 | Orc:2 | Noticed Maurice 26565 | Orc:2 | Killed Maurice 26722 | Orc:2 | Noticed Urug 26732 | Orc:2 | Killed Urug 27069 | Orc:2 | Received a gift from Trog 27158 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 29313 | Orc:3 | Noticed Psyche 29321 | Orc:3 | Killed Psyche 29530 | Orc:3 | Noticed Donald 29539 | Orc:3 | Killed Donald 30019 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 30019 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 30085 | Orc:4 | Found Crai's Antique Armour Shoppe. 30091 | Orc:4 | Bought a faintly humming helmet for 262 gold pieces 30091 | Orc:4 | Bought a shiny dwarven scale mail for 346 gold pieces 30095 | Orc:4 | Identified the cursed -3 helmet of Klura {Str+4 Stlth+} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) 30232 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog 30325 | Orc:4 | Found Osudghuz's Weapon Shop. 30367 | Orc:4 | Found Khuhiri's Gadget Shoppe. 30521 | Orc:4 | Found Pnoepn's Magic Scroll Boutique. 30521 | Orc:4 | Found Kuakam's Gadget Emporium. 30546 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog 30551 | Orc:4 | Got a shimmering mace {god gift} 30964 | Orc:4 | Identified the mace of the Hills {god gift, crush, rN+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) 31042 | Orc:4 | Found Kumufimn's Weapon Emporium. 31042 | Orc:4 | Found Wownotiluu's Magical Wand Shop. 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon I for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon II for 88 gold pieces 31157 | Orc:4 | Bought a wand of digging (10) for 336 gold pieces Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Mace | 88 | 125 | 348 | | 7 || 568 Flail | | | 6 | 1014 | 23 || 1043 Dire flail | | | | | 301 || 301 Great mace | | | | | 973 || 973 War axe | | | | | 8 || 8 Invok: Berserk | 1 | 3 | 11 | 18 | 21 || 54 Burn Spellbooks | | | | 4 | 2 || 6 Trog's Hand | | | | 1 | 10 || 11 Brothers in Arms | | | | 1 | 13 || 14 Abil: Fly | | | | | 1 || 1 Stop Flying | | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | | 5 | 10 || 15 Use: Scroll | 11 | 8 | 9 | 15 | 32 || 75 Potion | | 4 | 9 | 6 | 16 || 35 Stab: Confused | | | | | 1 || 1 Petrified | | | | | 2 || 2 Distracted | | | | | 1 || 1

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 18:33 by Link

Actually nevermind, coming out of the mines I got surronded by slime things and yaks, couldn't handle it. best game so far though. Thanks for all the advice.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-3016-gcb2faac (webtiles) character file. 78050 Link the Bludgeoner (level 15, -4/97 HPs) Began as a Gargoyle Berserker on Sept 9, 2013. Was a High Priest of Trog. Slain by a hill giant ... wielding a +0,+0 giant club (15 damage) ... on Level 13 of the Dungeon on Sept 10, 2013. The game lasted 03:03:12 (31548 turns). Link the Bludgeoner (Gargoyle Berserker) Turns: 31548, Time: 03:03:12 HP -4/97 AC 32 Str 27 XL: 15 Next: 55% MP 4/4 EV 9 Int 8 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 1019 SH 0 Dex 9 Spells: 0 memorised, 14 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + v - +3,+7 great mace (antimagic) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . Z - +3 dwarf scale mail {MR+} Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . G - +2 orc helmet Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . g - +2 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . E - +1 pair of dwarf gloves Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . (no boots) Res.Rott. : + Flight : . B - amulet of faith Saprovore : . . . u - ring of protection from magic f - ring of see invisible @: exhausted, very slightly contaminated, slowed, very slow, very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: large and strong wings, claws 1, fangs 1, talons 2, life protection 1, electricity resistance, slow metabolism 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +11 a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion You were on level 13 of the Dungeon. You worshipped Trog. Trog was exalted by your worship. You were not hungry. You visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and saw 26 of its levels. You collected 2730 gold pieces. You spent 1731 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +5,+7 dire flail of holy wrath e - the +11,+7 mace of the Hills {crush, rN+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It protects you from negative energy. j - a +0,+4 dagger of chaos (quivered) k - a +2,+4 great mace of draining v - a +3,+7 anti-magic great mace (weapon) N - a +0,+4 anti-magic dire flail O - the +7,+6 lajatang of Tortfeasance {slice, MR++ Int+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies. It affects your intelligence (+1). It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. T - a +2,+3 orcish mace V - a +2,+5 war axe Armour g - a +2 cloak (worn) r - a +1 cloak of poison resistance w - a +3 elven ring mail E - a +1 pair of dwarven gloves (worn) G - a +2 orcish helmet (worn) X - a +0 shield of reflection Y - the -3 helmet of Klura {Str+4 Stlth+} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) It affects your strength (+4). It makes you much more stealthy. Z - a +3 dwarven scale mail of magic resistance (worn) Magical devices l - a wand of slowing (14) p - a wand of fireball (5) s - a wand of teleportation (8) t - a wand of digging (10) y - a wand of flame (11) C - a wand of paralysis (13) D - a wand of lightning (2) F - a wand of disintegration (12) H - a wand of confusion (14) I - a wand of magic darts (11) Comestibles c - 3 bread rations Scrolls d - 3 scrolls of remove curse q - 4 scrolls of teleportation A - a scroll of blinking L - 2 scrolls of fog Jewellery f - a ring of see invisible (left hand) n - an uncursed ring of fire u - a ring of protection from magic (right hand) B - an amulet of faith (around neck) M - an uncursed ring of ice Potions b - 2 potions of resistance o - 3 potions of mutation {unknown} x - 2 potions of might z - 2 potions of flight K - a potion of agility U - 2 potions of restore abilities Skills: + Level 14.5 Fighting - Level 0.3 Axes - Level 20.0 Maces & Flails + Level 10.4 Armour + Level 4.5 Dodging Level 9.0 Shields You had 14 spell levels left. You didn't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/27) Temple (1/1) D:7 Orc (4/4) D:11 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:13 Swamp (0/5) Lair:3 Spider (0/5) Lair:3 Slime (0/6) Lair:8 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:4 ! D:8 = D:9 * D:11 ( Orc:2 + Orc:4 [(}?}(/ Annotations: Lair:2 Stash Floor, Near Down Stairs Lair:7 exclusion: oklob plant Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are resistant to torment. You are immune to poison. You can fly continuously. Your stone body is very resilient (AC +11). Your wings are large and strong. You have very sharp teeth. You have razor-sharp toenails. You resist negative energy. You are resistant to electric shocks. You have a slow metabolism. You can survive without breathing. You are immune to petrification. You have sharp fingernails. Message History You feel yourself moving faster! You feel mighty! You feel somewhat more hungry. You feel a strong urge to attack something. You feel your anger subside. You are no longer berserk. You are exhausted. You feel yourself slow down. A slime creature comes into view. Two slime creatures merge to form a very large slime creature. The hill giant hits you but does no damage. The yak barely misses you. A slime creature comes into view. The yak barely misses you. The hill giant hits you with a giant club! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The yak completely misses you. The yak closely misses you. The yak gores you but does no damage. The hill giant hits you but does no damage. The hill giant hits you with a giant club! You die... . #.. ###.... #...... ###....# #.....# ##.....# ## #..@Y### #... #..YC..# #..). ###.Y..####..... #Y.....#....# ######J..<....# ###...#........## ###.........#...## ##.......J..###### ##......#...## You could see a slime creature, a hill giant and 4 yaks. Vanquished Creatures Donald (Orc:3) An orc warlord (Orc:2) Fannar (D:11) Harold (D:12) Josephine (Orc:2) Erica (D:10) An ogre mage (Orc:4) 7 hydras An orc high priest (Orc:2) Urug (Orc:2) 3 catoblepae (Lair:8) 13 death yaks An iron troll (Orc:2) Erolcha (D:8) A lindwurm (Lair:8) The ghost of SomeoneAwful the Jinx, an experienced SpEn of Ashenzari (D:7) 2 hill giants Pikel (D:7) 3 orc sorcerers 3 orc knights Joseph (D:8) A cyclops (D:12) A slime creature (D:13) A sixfirhy (Orc:2) 2 griffons Maurice (Orc:2) A deep elf summoner (Orc:4) 8 black mambas A queen ant (Lair:3) Psyche (Orc:3) 8 spiny frogs An elephant (Lair:7) An orb spider (Lair:3) A fire drake (D:13) A wandering mushroom (Lair:4) A troll (Orc:1) A hellwing (Orc:3) 8 komodo dragons Sonja (D:12) 3 two-headed ogres (Orc:4) A polar bear (Lair:4) 23 blink frogs 42 yaks 2 basilisks A wyvern (Lair:8) A dragon skeleton (D:12) A trapdoor spider (D:11) A hungry ghost (D:11) Eustachio (D:7) Grum (D:9) 6 hippogriffs A boulder beetle (Lair:6) 6 wolves A necrophage (D:12) Edmund (D:7) A manticore (D:9) 11 soldier ants (Lair:3) 5 elephant slugs The ghost of neil the Digger, an average GrEE (D:3) 12 porcupines A swamp drake (Lair:3) 3 slaves (D:7) 2 yellow wasps (D:12) 20 ogres 3 sky beasts 10 centaurs A black bear (Lair:3) 14 orc warriors 2 giant goldfish 2 boring beetles 4 phantoms 14 crocodiles Sigmund (D:7) Duvessa (D:5) 13 water moccasins 15 giant frogs 9 giant slugs 3 wargs A brain worm (Lair:5) 15 agate snails A cyclops zombie (D:11) A wyvern zombie (D:12) An eye of draining (D:12) A wyvern skeleton (D:11) A cyclops skeleton (D:11) 5 killer bees (D:9) A hippogriff zombie (D:12) A troll zombie (D:10) 4 jellyfish (Lair:4) Dowan (D:5) 3 vampire bats (Orc:3) A goliath beetle (D:8) A quasit (D:13) A centaur zombie (D:12) 4 crimson imps 7 iguanas 25 orc priests 4 jellies 9 hounds 2 gnoll shamans 22 orc wizards 42 worker ants 3 scorpions A big kobold zombie (D:13) A sky beast zombie (D:12) 9 sheep 2 mummies 40 green rats A lemure (D:7) 24 adders 5 giant centipedes 12 gnolls 5 giant mites 3 worms A scorpion zombie (D:5) An adder skeleton (D:10) A grey rat (D:7) 5 giant geckos 3 oozes 145 orcs 2 ball pythons (D:5) A bat zombie (Orc:3) 2 giant cockroaches (D:1) 23 goblins 11 hobgoblins 38 jackals 12 quokkas 4 training dummies (Orc:1) 26 bats A giant gecko skeleton (D:5) 7 giant newts A goblin simulacrum (Orc:2) A goblin zombie (Orc:2) 3 hobgoblin skeletons 12 kobolds A kobold zombie (D:6) 4 orc zombies 18 rats 2 rat zombies 10 ballistomycetes 4 bushes (Lair:8) 11 fungi 11 plants 947 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) 3 ogre magi (Orc:4) 9 death yaks An orc knight (Orc:2) A cyclops (D:13) 2 elephants (Lair:7) A fire drake (Lair:7) A komodo dragon (Lair:8) 8 two-headed ogres (Orc:4) 9 yaks 7 orc warriors (Orc:2) 14 ogres (Orc:4) A giant frog (Lair:7) 2 adders (Lair:8) 5 orcs (Orc:2) A plant (Lair:8) 65 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A deep troll (Orc:4) A two-headed ogre (Lair:8) A hungry ghost (D:7) 2 ogres Blork the orc (D:7) A hound (D:7) An adder (D:7) An orc (Orc:2) A ball python (D:7) A bat (D:7) A giant newt (Lair:3) 3 giant spores A goblin (D:7) A ballistomycete (D:6) 8 fungi 4 plants 29 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 1041 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Link, the Gargoyle Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0 274 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1 559 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails 793 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/2 1053 | D:2 | Acquired Trog's second power 1523 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 28/28 MP: 3/3 1719 | D:3 | Noticed neil's ghost (average GrEE) 1727 | D:3 | Killed neil's ghost 1727 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails 1727 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/33 MP: 4/4 1955 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails 2125 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/38 MP: 5/5 2296 | D:4 | Found Weshrast's Distillery. 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 2301 | D:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces 2861 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 2889 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails 3143 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 43/43 MP: 6/6 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Duvessa 3337 | D:5 | Noticed Dowan 3346 | D:5 | Killed Duvessa 3348 | D:5 | Killed Dowan 3418 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails 3449 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 3511 | D:5 | Acquired Trog's third power 4139 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/48 MP: 7/7 4219 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails 4729 | D:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails 4934 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4966 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5145 | D:7 | Noticed Eustachio 5152 | D:7 | Noticed SomeoneAwful's ghost (experienced SpEn) 5160 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 52/52 MP: 8/8 5192 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 5241 | D:7 | Killed SomeoneAwful's ghost 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails 5241 | D:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 5545 | D:7 | Noticed Pikel 5570 | D:7 | Killed Pikel 5740 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 5787 | D:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails 6020 | D:7 | Noticed Edmund 6042 | D:7 | Killed Edmund 6153 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 57/57 MP: 9/9 6317 | D:7 | Received a gift from Trog 6510 | D:7 | Noticed Sigmund 6517 | D:7 | Killed Sigmund 7242 | D:8 | Noticed Erolcha 7257 | D:8 | Killed Erolcha 7329 | D:8 | Found Plopacih's Jewellery Shop. 7338 | D:8 | Noticed Joseph 7345 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 7358 | D:8 | Killed Joseph 7358 | D:8 | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails 7666 | D:8 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 5 turns 7673 | D:8 | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 210 gold pieces 7900 | D:9 | Found Teulaw's Assorted Antiques. 7970 | D:9 | Bought a potion of curing for 56 gold pieces 7978 | D:9 | Noticed Grum 7994 | D:9 | Killed Grum 8265 | D:9 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 8787 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 8864 | D:10 | Noticed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Killed Erica 8878 | D:10 | Reached skill level 14 in Maces & Flails 8878 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 51/61 MP: 10/10 9278 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 9296 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 9433 | D:11 | Received a gift from Trog 9495 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 9576 | D:11 | Found Klecuoce's Antique Weapon Shoppe. 9810 | D:11 | Noticed Fannar 9823 | D:11 | Killed Fannar 10085 | D:12 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 10091 | D:12 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 10175 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails 10504 | D:12 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 10513 | D:12 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 10735 | D:12 | Noticed an orc knight 10764 | D:12 | Killed an orc knight 10953 | D:12 | Noticed Harold 10971 | D:12 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 65/67 MP: 1/11 10989 | D:12 | Killed Harold 11089 | D:12 | Received a gift from Trog 11246 | D:12 | Noticed Sonja 11280 | D:12 | Killed Sonja 11623 | D:12 | Upgraded the game from 0.13-a0-2995-g9a84c3d to 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c 11662 | D:13 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 11729 | D:13 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 11743 | D:13 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 11915 | D:13 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 12045 | D:13 | Got a steaming ring mail 12058 | D:13 | Identified the cursed -2 ring mail "Dynaogg" {Dex-5 Int-5} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 12097 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 12862 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [potion of beneficial mutation] 13340 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Trog 13630 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour 14473 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 14590 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 80/80 MP: 12/12 14626 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Trog 14947 | Lair:3 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 15211 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Trog 15354 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 17620 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 16 in Maces & Flails 17719 | Lair:5 | Received a gift from Trog 19976 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 17 in Maces & Flails 20542 | Lair:7 | Gained mutation: Your wings are large and strong. [gargoyle growth] 20542 | Lair:7 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 90/90 MP: 13/13 21191 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Trog 21407 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 18 in Maces & Flails 21936 | Lair:7 | Upgraded the game from 0.13-a0-3008-g2a6619c to 0.13-a0-3016-gcb2faac 21943 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 22249 | Lair:8 | Received a gift from Trog 22253 | Lair:8 | Got a bloodstained lajatang {god gift} 22255 | Lair:8 | Identified the lajatang of Tortfeasance {god gift, slice, MR++ Int+1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) 22616 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 19 in Maces & Flails 23812 | Lair:8 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 23812 | Lair:8 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 24168 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 77/95 MP: 4/14 24960 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 24973 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 20 in Maces & Flails 25112 | Orc:1 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 25284 | Orc:1 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 26068 | Orc:2 | Received a gift from Trog 26080 | Orc:2 | Found Wuddamm's Book Boutique. 26170 | Orc:2 | Noticed Josephine 26183 | Orc:2 | Killed Josephine 26557 | Orc:2 | Noticed Maurice 26565 | Orc:2 | Killed Maurice 26722 | Orc:2 | Noticed Urug 26732 | Orc:2 | Killed Urug 27069 | Orc:2 | Received a gift from Trog 27158 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 29313 | Orc:3 | Noticed Psyche 29321 | Orc:3 | Killed Psyche 29530 | Orc:3 | Noticed Donald 29539 | Orc:3 | Killed Donald 30019 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 30019 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 30085 | Orc:4 | Found Crai's Antique Armour Shoppe. 30091 | Orc:4 | Bought a faintly humming helmet for 262 gold pieces 30091 | Orc:4 | Bought a shiny dwarven scale mail for 346 gold pieces 30095 | Orc:4 | Identified the cursed -3 helmet of Klura {Str+4 Stlth+} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) 30232 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog 30325 | Orc:4 | Found Osudghuz's Weapon Shop. 30367 | Orc:4 | Found Khuhiri's Gadget Shoppe. 30521 | Orc:4 | Found Pnoepn's Magic Scroll Boutique. 30521 | Orc:4 | Found Kuakam's Gadget Emporium. 30546 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog 30551 | Orc:4 | Got a shimmering mace {god gift} 30964 | Orc:4 | Identified the mace of the Hills {god gift, crush, rN+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) 31042 | Orc:4 | Found Kumufimn's Weapon Emporium. 31042 | Orc:4 | Found Wownotiluu's Magical Wand Shop. 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon I for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 88 gold pieces 31154 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon II for 88 gold pieces 31157 | Orc:4 | Bought a wand of digging (10) for 336 gold pieces 31504 | D:13 | HP: 3/97 [large slime creature (28)] 31548 | D:13 | Slain by a hill giant Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Mace | 88 | 125 | 348 | | 7 || 568 Flail | | | 6 | 1014 | 23 || 1043 Dire flail | | | | | 301 || 301 Great mace | | | | | 988 || 988 War axe | | | | | 8 || 8 Invok: Berserk | 1 | 3 | 11 | 18 | 22 || 55 Burn Spellbooks | | | | 4 | 2 || 6 Trog's Hand | | | | 1 | 11 || 12 Brothers in Arms | | | | 1 | 13 || 14 Abil: Fly | | | | | 1 || 1 Stop Flying | | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | | 5 | 10 || 15 Use: Scroll | 11 | 8 | 9 | 15 | 33 || 76 Potion | | 4 | 9 | 6 | 16 || 35 Stab: Confused | | | | | 1 || 1 Petrified | | | | | 2 || 2 Distracted | | | | | 1 || 1

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 18:51 by le_nerd

Wait, you had slime creatures, yaks and a hill giant all in view when you came up? Thats enough reasons to pop a scroll of teleport right there! And you even had a scroll of blinking... Pity.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:02 by Mankeli

What was going on with your armour? I mean 3 scale mail is pretty crap -especially so for a 27 strenght 9 dex minotaur melee basher without spells who seems to be going for the heavy armoured tank route! Next time it's (crystal) plate armour time (or dragon armour if you find one early enough) if you want to play a high strenght melee minotaur.

Better luck next time!

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:12 by Link

le_nerd wrote:Wait, you had slime creatures, yaks and a hill giant all in view when you came up? Thats enough reasons to pop a scroll of teleport right there! And you even had a scroll of blinking... Pity.

I did, but figured it out too late, guess its just another stupid death.

Mankeli wrote:What was going on with your armour? I mean 3 scale mail is pretty crap -especially so for a 27 strenght 9 dex minotaur melee basher without spells who seems to be going for the heavy armoured tank route! Next time it's (crystal) plate armour time (or dragon armour if you find one early enough) if you want to play a high strenght melee minotaur.

Better luck next time!

Thanks! Although I am a gargoyle, I found a few orcish plate armours, but just never picked them up in time, I think I've learned from my mistakes and will try the same character again, just to get the hang of it.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:21 by Sandman25

Also don't buy such items: Y - the -3 helmet of Klura {Str+4 Stlth+}, they are completely useless for the character.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:38 by Link

Oh, okay, I just bought a shimming helmet, hoping it would be better. How would I get the plate (crystal) or dragon armour? and should I wear any plate armour over +N chain mail or something else?

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:51 by rebthor

Link wrote:should I wear any plate armour over +N chain mail or something else?

Yes. There are edge cases of course (like +14 chain vs. vanilla plate), but ask for them.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:51 by Abominae

Link wrote:Oh, okay, I just bought a shimming helmet, hoping it would be better. How would I get the plate (crystal) or dragon armour? and should I wear any plate armour over +N chain mail or something else?

Plate is more than fine for the entire game. I would wear plate over pretty much any chain mail or scale male unless it is some randart with very high enchantment. Plate has very good base AC which is important for both maximum enchantment level and how your AC is multiplied by armour skill. Whether or not to use a dragon armour or plate mail is really up to what has dropped and when. I wouldn't worry about a CPA; if you get one at an okay time, you should use it though. It is never an armour to plan on getting 100% of the time like a decent plate mail is.
I like MR or rF+ on my plate mail, but pretty much any brand (well, rN+ and pondering suck) makes for a great, common armour.

Also, you shouldn't have been training Dodging that early. Gargoyles have a bad aptitude for it and poor dexterity; training more armour would be much more beneficial (especially in Plate). Dodging takes a large investment to see notable returns in the heavier armours, and on this specific Be you should put off training Dodging until much later in the game.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:52 by Amnesiac

I actually think that a light armour for more EV might be better for a Gr because it has a high AC as it is. It's not that important though.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:53 by Sandman25

Link wrote:Oh, okay, I just bought a shimming helmet, hoping it would be better. How would I get the plate (crystal) or dragon armour? and should I wear any plate armour over +N chain mail or something else?

I see, buying shimming helmets is a good thing to do. It is easy to find a plate armour in Orcish Mines, crystal plate armour is extremely rare item. Dragon armour can be obtained via butchering dragon corpse (does not work with Shadow Dragon) or found lying on the ground as any other item (if you are lucky). Try wearing different armour to see which is better (sometimes it is tricky to guess without trying).

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:56 by Lasty

You can never have too much AC.

Rule of thumb for comparing two armours: wear one and add up your EV + AC. Wear the other and add up your EV + AC. You should probably wear the one with the highest combined number. If you're training Armour skill, bias in favor of the one with the higher base AC.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:56 by Siegurt

rN+ is a nearly useless intrinsic to have on armour, in the long long long term it might help just a tiny bit, in the short term you can just pretend it's not there.

Generally, if you are a "whack it with a heavy thing" sort of player (melee user) you should select the equipment that gives you the best AC (that helmet for example *lowers* your AC, which is why it's unhelpful)

Buying unidentified stuff from the store isn't a bad idea if you can afford it, but if it turns out to be junk, just pitch it, don't keep wearing it.

Even non-glowy equipment can have some bonuses so they're worthy picking up and trying on. Plate armour is generally better than chain, although for instance a +4 chain mail would give you more AC than a +0 plate armour at least until your armour skill was very very high.

The heaver the armour is the more it will lower your EV, which is Ok, although not optimal, I usually figure about 2 points of AC is worth the loss of 3-4 points of EV. Higher strength will reduce the amount which heavier armour impedes your EV.

Heavier armour also makes spellcasting harder, which is part of why there are such a variety in the first place.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 19:59 by Amnesiac

40 AC and 20 EV is better than 50 AC and 10 EV, imo

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 20:28 by and into

Amnesiac wrote:40 AC and 20 EV is better than 50 AC and 10 EV, imo

I agree with this, but it is getting into less well-defined areas. In general the AC + EV is a good indicator when *comparing armors of a similar type*. It is an alright general indicator, but due to the different ways that EV and AC work, it is very valuable to get a bit more AC on someone who already has a large amount of EV but only mediocre AC. On the other hand, it is important to have at least one (AC or EV) quite high, as one progresses in the mid game.

So, while I would prefer 40 AC and 20 EV over 50 AC and 10 EV, I would on the other hand prefer 32 AC and 10 EV (or vice versa) over 21 AC and 21 EV, for instance.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 20:35 by Sandman25

and into wrote:So, while I would prefer 40 AC and 20 EV over 50 AC and 10 EV, I would on the other hand prefer 32 AC and 10 EV (or vice versa) over 21 AC and 21 EV, for instance.

I think EV 10 does not evade much so we have 32 AC vs 21 AC and 21 EV. I would take the latter.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 20:46 by Mankeli

Amnesiac wrote:I actually think that a light armour for more EV might be better for a Gr because it has a high AC as it is. It's not that important though.

Light armour is just fine but +3 scale mail is probably not fine for anyone

.

@Link, oops I somehow decided your character was a minotaur, doesn't change anything else in my post though

.

And and into is right, the comparisons between AC and EV are not straightforward but you can give some general rules of thumb. One point of AC is usually a bit better than one point of EV (and much better than one point of shields).

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 20:56 by Amnesiac

I agree with last two posts, but some MR is very good for this character(and any other character who has a low MR and is not crippled by the armour that gives it) imo.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:00 by Sandman25

Amnesiac wrote:I agree with last two posts, but some MR is very good for this character(and any other character who has a low MR and is not crippled by the armour that gives it) imo.

Trog's hand grants a MR bonus which is equivalent to ring of magic resistance AND armour of magic resistance. Basically I don't care about MR with Trog.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:02 by Link

Sandman25 wrote:
Amnesiac wrote:I agree with last two posts, but some MR is very good for this character(and any other character who has a low MR and is not crippled by the armour that gives it) imo.

Trog's hand grants a MR bonus which is equivalent to ring of magic resistance AND armour of magic resistance. Basically I don't care about MR with Trog.

I did not know that, Thanks for the advice mate.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:02 by and into

Sandman25 wrote:
and into wrote:So, while I would prefer 40 AC and 20 EV over 50 AC and 10 EV, I would on the other hand prefer 32 AC and 10 EV (or vice versa) over 21 AC and 21 EV, for instance.

I think EV 10 does not evade much so we have 32 AC vs 21 AC and 21 EV. I would take the latter.

Yes, perhaps a bad example, but I was trying to get across the general point (which I think is true) that getting either AC or EV above certain points can be more important than the combined total. So to be more specific: Would you rather be doing melee in Lair with 20 AC and 5 EV, or 12 AC and 15 EV? Either is viable of course (and yeah I know plenty of really good players could probably do lair naked with no dodging trained). But I'd prefer the former, even though the latter is technically higher EV + AC by two. 5 EV is terrible, you'll pretty much always be hit, but anything below hydra and death yak (including the actually dangerous lair bastards like spiny frogs and mambas) will have a hard time hurting you very badly through 20 AC. Even hydras won't be so bad per hit (though they'd still be a danger to consider). Whereas 12 AC doesn't provide enough damage mitigation and 15 EV is not reliable enough, meleeing even a regular yak pack with those numbers would be a little dicey.

(EDIT: Admittedly, all of this is getting into much more detail about AC and EV than you need to worry about right now, though, Link!)

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:03 by Amnesiac

Sandman25 wrote:Trog's hand grants a MR bonus which is equivalent to ring of magic resistance AND armour of magic resistance. Basically I don't care about MR with Trog.

That may be, but if you can avoid spending piety it's not that bad, right? Very resistant is still a bit low, though.

and into wrote:20 AC and 5 EV, or 12 AC and 15 EV

hm, this is too close in terms of protection, to even compare, but I think the latter will actually give you more protection if you even fsim it vs some average monster.

Anyway, were are talking about a Gr here, so it won't even have less than 20 AC at some point and from that point I think it would make sense to worry about EV more than about AC

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:20 by Siegurt

Amnesiac wrote:40 AC and 20 EV is better than 50 AC and 10 EV, imo

This is true, but not because EV is better than AC, it's because going from 10->20 is a much larger difference than going from 40->50 (this is true for EV and AC, and even SH)

To put the reverse perspective on it, it'd still be true if you said 20AC/40EV is better than 10AC/50EV.

So the question is: would you rather have 30AC/20 EV or 20AC/30EV, to me the former than the latter.

If you want to get extra complicated about it, I think AC is about 30% better than EV. Going from 40->50 AC is a 25% improvement, going from 10->20 EV is a 100% improvement, when comparing the two I multiply the ac *percentage* improvement by 130% to get 32.5% which is still worse than the EV improvement. If instead I was comparing 50AC/30EV to 40AC/40EV the AC is still a 25% improvement, and the EV is a 33% improvement so those are about the same to me. When comparing 20AC/15EV to 25AC/10EV it's the same EV wins, When comparing 16AC/15EV to 21AC/10EV, scales tip back to the AC side.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 21:23 by Amnesiac

That is one accurate reply. Yes I agree to this, but it's pretty obvious for an experienced player if you don't even think too deeply about it, I think. For a new player it's a good advice, though.

Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 23:48 by Link

Ah thanks, so I have a new character, and have a ring of regeneration, is it worth it to put it on this early? at like D:4? The hunger cost is what seems to concern me a bit right now.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 00:00 by BlackSheep

You can eat almost everything that leaves a corpse. Don't worry about food.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 00:07 by Link

Okay, thats good to know, also I have a flail (orcish) +4,+3 and a +2,+1 whip of flaming, with 12 maces and flails, is it a better choice to use the whip as I have on now?
Scratch that, just hit D:9 and found this: the +8,+10 demon whip "Naivi" (weapon) {drain, +Inv rPois MR++} I'm guessing its a really good weapon??? Also found Crystal Plate Armour on D:10, So put that on, this is a really good run guys. Online webtiles likes your advice... :p

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 02:04 by and into

Link wrote:Okay, thats good to know, also I have a flail (orcish) +4,+3 and a +2,+1 whip of flaming, with 12 maces and flails, is it a better choice to use the whip as I have on now?
Scratch that, just hit D:9 and found this: the +8,+10 demon whip "Naivi" (weapon) {drain, +Inv rPois MR++} I'm guessing its a really good weapon??? Also found Crystal Plate Armour on D:10, So put that on, this is a really good run guys. Online webtiles likes your advice... :p

Good god, yes and yes.

This seems to happen a lot, I sometimes think dungeon crawling advice brings luck. Just be extra careful—you may feel invincible in all the great gear, but the danger curve will catch up with you later. Don't let it catch you unawares.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 02:07 by Link

Thanks I'll keep that in mind, I've cleared Lair and the Mines. I found a few other branches and have no idea where to go now or what do, any advice on what to do next, where to go maybe?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-3016-gcb2faac (webtiles) character file. Link the Warrior (Gargoyle Berserker) Turns: 23207, Time: 01:54:12 HP 97/97 AC 44 Str 26 XL: 14 Next: 47% MP 13/13 EV 5 Int 8 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 1719 SH 11 Dex 9 Spells: 0 memorised, 13 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : . a - +8,+10 demon whip "Naivi" {drain, +Inv rPo Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . L - +3 crystal plate armour Life Prot.: + + . Conserve : . E - +0 buckler Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . (helmet restricted) Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . F - +0 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . W - +2 pair of bracers {archer} Res.Mut. : + Stasis : . g - +1 pair of boots "Croan" {rN+} Res.Rott. : + Flight : . y - amulet of resist mutation Saprovore : . . . X - ring of regeneration N - +0,+4 ring of slaying @: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: large and strong wings, fangs 1, horns 1, talons 2, life protection 1, electricity resistance, slow metabolism 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +11, SH +2 a: Fly, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility You are on level 10 of the Dungeon. You worship Trog. Trog is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 25 of its levels. You have collected 2306 gold pieces. You have spent 607 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - the +8,+10 demon whip "Naivi" (weapon) {drain, +Inv rPois MR++} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes. It protects you from poison. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. It lets you turn invisible. r - a +1,+3 orcish dagger of venom (quivered) Armour g - the +1 pair of boots "Croan" (worn) {rN+} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon) It protects you from negative energy. E - a +0 buckler (worn) F - a +0 cloak (worn) L - a +3 crystal plate armour (worn) W - a +2 pair of bracers of archery (worn) Magical devices A - a wand of digging (14) B - a wand of fireball (9) J - a wand of confusion (9) P - a wand of digging Q - a wand of paralysis (12) Comestibles c - 11 bread rations k - 5 chokos m - an apple C - 5 pears I - 7 sultanas Scrolls b - a scroll of fog n - 3 scrolls of identify p - 4 scrolls of blinking u - 7 scrolls of remove curse w - 8 scrolls of teleportation Jewellery y - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck) N - a +0,+4 ring of slaying (left hand) X - a ring of regeneration (right hand) Potions d - 2 potions of agility e - 2 potions of magic h - a potion of speed i - 11 potions of heal wounds j - 2 potions of restore abilities l - 18 potions of curing s - a potion of invisibility x - a potion of resistance D - 2 potions of might O - a gluggy brown potion Skills: * Level 18.5 Fighting - Level 12.6 Maces & Flails + Level 13.1 Armour - Level 1.5 Dodging - Level 5.0 Shields You have 13 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (12/27) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (4/4) D:10 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:12 Shoals (0/5) Lair:6 Spider (0/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:4 } D:5 = D:10 ? Orc:3 } Orc:4 ?!+(*! Portals: Sewer: D:4 Annotations: Orc:3 Sonja Lair:2 My Stash, Near Down Stairs Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are resistant to torment. You are immune to poison. You can fly continuously. Your stone body is very resilient (AC +9). Your wings are large and strong. You have very sharp teeth. You have razor-sharp toenails. You resist negative energy. You are resistant to electric shocks. You have a slow metabolism. You can survive without breathing. You are immune to petrification. You have a pair of small horns on your head. You are partially covered in large bone plates (AC +2, SH +2). Message History The orc warrior is moderately wounded. You hit the orc warrior but do no damage. You bite the orc warrior. The orc warrior is heavily wounded. The orc warrior hits you with an orcish hand axe. You whack the orc warrior! You kill the orc warrior! Trog accepts your kill. The orc wizard mumbles some strange words. The orc wizard blinks! Things that are here: an orcish hand axe; an orcish chain mail The orc wizard casts a spell at you. The magic dart hits you! The orc wizard barely misses you. You block the orc wizard's attack. The orc wizard barely misses you. The orc wizard mumbles some strange words. The orc wizard blinks! There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here. You climb upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon! There is a staircase to the Orcish Mines here. ..#.##..#.##..###.###.# #...### #.#.###.........##..#[# #...... ##...#.###.#.##...###.#####...### ..#.##....##.[#.##[[..##......... ..##.##.#.#..)[#[)#[..##......... ..#.######..##........##.....(... ##.## #.#...###...#######...### #.#### ##.###.##..#.# #.(.... ..#..# #........@...### #.(.### #.#.####..#.#....####.# ##.(.# #.#.###.#.##.##[.###..## #??(.# #.)..#..##.#.#..##.##..# #.∩.#### ###..#..#.....#.).....## #?.?.... #.###..##.##......### ####.... #..##.#.#.#####..##### #.... #####.#.).#....#...#.######.### #.#....##...#.#............ There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Maud (Lair:3) 3 dire elephants (Lair:8) A hydra (Lair:8) Fannar (D:12) Josephine (D:12) Harold (D:12) An anaconda (Lair:8) Urug (D:11) 3 death yaks (Lair:8) Pikel (D:6) An orc sorcerer (Orc:4) Erolcha (Orc:3) A cyclops (Orc:2) 2 spiny worms 5 hill giants (D:10) Maurice (D:9) Psyche (D:11) 7 black mambas 2 griffons 12 elephants 2 fire drakes A mermaid (Lair:6) A troll (D:10) A hydra skeleton (D:12) 5 komodo dragons A two-headed ogre (D:11) 6 spiny frogs 2 basilisks 13 blink frogs A polar bear (Lair:8) 3 vampire mosquitoes (D:11) 5 hippogriffs A grizzly bear (Lair:4) A hill giant zombie (D:12) A boulder beetle (Lair:8) 42 yaks An elephant slug (Lair:8) A trapdoor spider (D:10) 2 hungry ghosts 2 manticores 4 ice beasts A shark (Lair:4) 9 ogres 6 wolves (Lair:5) 3 giant goldfish 5 phantoms 3 sky beasts 6 porcupines 3 black bears A boring beetle (Lair:7) 4 centaurs A steam dragon (D:11) Sigmund (D:6) Duvessa (Orc:1) A warg (D:10) A gnoll sergeant (D:6) 9 crocodiles 2 big kobolds 14 giant frogs A wyvern zombie (D:12) 11 water moccasins 3 agate snails 13 orc warriors A cyclops skeleton (D:10) 8 giant slugs 2 hippogriff zombies A yak zombie (D:7) A jelly (D:5) 2 goliath beetles A yak skeleton (D:9) 7 crimson imps Dowan (Orc:1) A big fish (Lair:4) A centaur skeleton (D:10) A soldier ant zombie (D:12) 8 spiders (Lair:6) A two-headed ogre zombie (D:7) 8 hounds 2 quasits 10 orc priests 7 scorpions 8 iguanas 26 orc wizards A two-headed ogre skeleton (D:12) A troll simulacrum (D:12) A statue (D:6) 17 worker ants An ogre skeleton (D:5) A mottled dragon skeleton (D:12) A worker ant zombie (D:5) 21 adders 73 green rats 2 giant centipedes 5 gnolls (D:6) A worm zombie (D:5) 6 giant mites 5 worms 2 iguana skeletons 13 giant geckos 2 oozes 117 orcs A ball python (D:3) 30 bats A bat zombie (D:5) 3 giant cockroaches 12 goblins 17 hobgoblins 32 jackals 27 kobolds 16 quokkas 2 giant newts 2 kobold skeletons 2 quokka skeletons 23 rats A spectral orc (D:4) A bush (Lair:4) 2 fungi 9 plants 790 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) 4 ogre magi (Orc:4) 13 two-headed ogres (Orc:4) 24 ogres (Orc:4) An orc wizard (D:8) 2 worker ants (D:8) 3 orcs A jackal (D:8) 2 kobolds (D:8) 50 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) An iron troll (Orc:4) 2 hill giants (Orc:4) A troll (Orc:4) A two-headed ogre (Orc:4) 3 fungi A plant (Lair:7) 9 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 849 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Link, the Gargoyle Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0 2 | D:1 | Noticed a felid 2 | D:1 | Noticed a minotaur 4 | D:1 | Noticed a naga 4 | D:1 | Noticed a dwarf 6 | D:1 | Noticed an elf 6 | D:1 | Noticed a merfolk 8 | D:1 | Noticed a demigod 8 | D:1 | Noticed a demonspawn 10 | D:1 | Noticed a vampire 10 | D:1 | Noticed a centaur 12 | D:1 | Noticed a tengu 14 | D:1 | Noticed a draconian 14 | D:1 | Noticed a human 16 | D:1 | Noticed a troll 18 | D:1 | Noticed an ogre 20 | D:1 | Noticed a ghoul 20 | D:1 | Noticed a spriggan 22 | D:1 | Noticed an octopode 491 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1 610 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails 1097 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/2 1224 | D:2 | Acquired Trog's second power 1269 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails 1395 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 23/28 MP: 3/3 2527 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails 2527 | D:4 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/33 MP: 4/4 2535 | D:4 | Found Kesutah's Gadget Shop. 2818 | D:4 | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails 2950 | D:4 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 2984 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 2989 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 38/38 MP: 5/5 2994 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 3143 | D:4 | Found a glowing drain. 3408 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3418 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails 3607 | D:5 | Found Koimeol's Jewellery Shoppe. 3886 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 42/42 MP: 6/6 4099 | D:5 | Acquired Trog's third power 4241 | D:5 | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails 4313 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4685 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5010 | Temple | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation] 5011 | Temple | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in large bone plates (AC +2, SH +2). [potion of beneficial mutation] 5015 | Temple | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 5 turns 5074 | D:6 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 5106 | D:6 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 5125 | D:6 | Got a warped dagger 5125 | D:6 | Got a shimmering animal skin 5135 | D:6 | Identified the +0 animal skin of Devotion {Dex+1 Dam+6} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon) 5143 | D:6 | Identified the dagger of Sikerph {freeze, Str-6} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon) 5148 | D:6 | Noticed Sigmund 5160 | D:6 | Killed Sigmund 5160 | D:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails 5160 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 36/48 MP: 7/7 5818 | D:6 | Noticed Pikel 5828 | D:6 | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails 5832 | D:6 | Killed Pikel 5832 | D:6 | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails 5832 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 52/52 MP: 8/8 7147 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 7147 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 7723 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 7868 | D:8 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 7869 | D:8 | Noticed an Executioner 7869 | D:8 | Noticed an angel 8868 | D:9 | Received a gift from Trog 8889 | D:9 | Got a faintly glowing demon whip 8907 | D:9 | Identified the cursed demon whip "Naivi" {drain, +Inv rPois MR++} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) 8960 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 60/60 MP: 9/9 9018 | D:9 | Noticed Maurice 9019 | D:9 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 9069 | D:9 | Killed Maurice 9301 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 9310 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 9313 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 9320 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 9326 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 9674 | D:10 | Found Ifu Pam's Magic Scroll Boutique. 9734 | D:10 | Got a pair of fine boots 9738 | D:10 | Identified the +1 pair of boots "Croan" {rN+} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon) 9756 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 9757 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 9762 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 9769 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 10127 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 10127 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 68/68 MP: 10/10 10252 | D:10 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 10326 | D:10 | Received a gift from Trog 10807 | D:11 | Noticed Urug 10827 | D:11 | Killed Urug 11169 | D:11 | Noticed Psyche 11175 | D:11 | Killed Psyche 12030 | D:12 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour 12115 | D:12 | Noticed Josephine 12132 | D:12 | Killed Josephine 12394 | D:12 | Noticed Fannar 12414 | D:12 | Killed Fannar 12414 | D:12 | Received a gift from Trog 12509 | D:12 | Noticed Harold 12519 | D:12 | Killed Harold 12519 | D:12 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 78/78 MP: 11/11 12656 | D:12 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 12666 | D:12 | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting 12798 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 13472 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Trog 13599 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting 14260 | Lair:3 | Noticed Maud 14285 | Lair:3 | Killed Maud 14450 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Trog 14924 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting 16004 | Lair:4 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 80/87 MP: 12/12 16504 | Lair:5 | Received a gift from Trog 16643 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 16 in Fighting 16871 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 17630 | Lair:6 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 17792 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 17997 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 18049 | Lair:6 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 18051 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 18475 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Trog 19257 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 19782 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting 19801 | Lair:8 | Received a gift from Trog 19939 | Lair:8 | Found a frozen archway. 20151 | Lair:8 | Gained mutation: Your wings are large and strong. [gargoyle growth] 20151 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 87/96 MP: 13/13 20728 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 18 in Fighting 20998 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 21002 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 21066 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 21304 | Orc:1 | Noticed Dowan 21306 | Orc:1 | Noticed Duvessa 21312 | Orc:1 | Killed Duvessa 21317 | Orc:1 | Killed Dowan 21825 | Orc:3 | Noticed Erolcha 21833 | Orc:3 | Killed Erolcha 21974 | Orc:3 | Noticed Sonja 21980 | Orc:3 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 21980 | Orc:3 | Found Shuosebi's Gadget Shoppe. 22154 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 22162 | Orc:4 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 22231 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 22282 | Orc:4 | Found Wifies' Magic Scroll Boutique. 22289 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog 22329 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces 22329 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of brand weapon for 300 gold pieces 22329 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces 22329 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces 22329 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 82 gold pieces 22353 | Orc:4 | Found Cesoufet's Distillery. 22354 | Orc:4 | Found Sudamamm's Book Shop. 22362 | Orc:4 | Found Utaupear's Antique Weapon Shop. 22362 | Orc:4 | Found Gownewk's General Store. 22497 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces 22497 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces 22497 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces 22535 | Orc:4 | Found Toixuen's Distillery. 22544 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Trog Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Mace | 78 | 153 | | | || 231 Flail | | 7 | 99 | | || 106 Unarmed | | | 4 | | || 4 Whip | | | 255 | | || 255 Demon whip | | | 4 | 792 | 806 || 1602 Invok: Burn Spellbooks | 1 | | 2 | | 2 || 5 Berserk | | 4 | 9 | 3 | 3 || 19 Trog's Hand | | | 2 | 1 | 1 || 4 Brothers in Arms | | | 1 | | 7 || 8 Use: Scroll | | | 29 | 13 | 10 || 52 Potion | | | 15 | | 2 || 17 Stab: Sleeping | | | 1 | | || 1

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 08:03 by Mankeli

Siegurt wrote: Going from 40->50 AC is a 25% improvement, going from 10->20 EV is a 100% improvement

Quite the contrary, you can make it even more complicated by taking the monster's to-hit into account

(and GDR (only monster melee) and monster max dam for AC but taking them into account would be really complicated

). When you do, your percentage based comparisons are not strictly true either. Of course this is only splitting hairs.

For example in the uppermost left picture, if you were to fight a HD 1 monster, then going from 10 to 15 points of EV (1,5 times the former EV and only five more points in absolute terms) seems to better than going from 20 to 50 EV (2,5 times the former EV and a hefty 30 points increase in absolute terms). On the other hand in the uppermost right picture, when fighting a HD 30 monster, then going from 10 to 20 EV (double the former EV) is worse than going from 20 to 40 EV (also double).

http://i.imgur.com/0RSGG.png

http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=hd

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 13:36 by Sandman25

Amnesiac wrote:
Sandman25 wrote:Trog's hand grants a MR bonus which is equivalent to ring of magic resistance AND armour of magic resistance. Basically I don't care about MR with Trog.

That may be, but if you can avoid spending piety it's not that bad, right? Very resistant is still a bit low, though.

Yes, very resistant is a bit low, but you would need luck to get more than 2 MR items with other gods to have higher MR. Trog allows you to wear other useful items like elemental resists instead of rarely useful MR. Still MR is one of the most important properties of course.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 13:41 by Sandman25

I think you can do Spiders Nest 1-4 (not 5) since Gr are immune to poison. Shoals is much harder so I would continue with Dungeon all the way till D27 (Vaults in 0.13 is very hard for me), then Spider 5, Shoals 1-5 and finally Vaults.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 15:19 by and into

Mankeli wrote:
Siegurt wrote: Going from 40->50 AC is a 25% improvement, going from 10->20 EV is a 100% improvement

Quite the contrary, you can make it even more complicated by taking the monster's to-hit into account (and GDR (only monster melee) and monster max dam for AC but taking them into account would be really complicated ). When you do, your percentage based comparisons are not strictly true either. Of course this is only splitting hairs.

For example in the uppermost left picture, if you were to fight a HD 1 monster, then going from 10 to 15 points of EV (1,5 times the former EV and only five more points in absolute terms) seems to better than going from 20 to 50 EV (2,5 times the former EV and a hefty 30 points increase in absolute terms). On the other hand in the uppermost right picture, when fighting a HD 30 monster, then going from 10 to 20 EV (double the former EV) is worse than going from 20 to 40 EV (also double).

http://i.imgur.com/0RSGG.png

http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=hd

Indeed, and for instance going from 5 to 10 EV is a 100% increase and an overall total increase of 5, but will make hardly any difference if you are facing any mid-game creature, because 10 EV is still very low and damn near everything is still going to hit you. (A spellcasting analogy: going from 90% failure to 45% failure casting a spell is a large step both in % increase and in total amount, but it doesn't matter because 45% is still way too unreliable to be depended upon.) So this is why these things get complicated quickly, both absolute number, percentages, and where you are in the game (what types of monsters are you facing, how many ranged attacks etc.) are all meaningful factors. This is why there's no golden number or formula that is going to work in all cases, and yet despite this, there are good general minimum goals to reach by certain points in the game, and it isn't too hard for an experienced player to look at a CIP and say, "Your EV is a bit low" or whatever.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 16:58 by Siegurt

Indeed and I am well aware that 'percentage increase' is really only a useful abstract as long as you have "somewhat appropriate" EV and AC numbers, the more your EV and AC are distant from what they probably "should" be to be effective the less accurate that model is, however if you're AC and EV are "in the middle somewhere" it makes a close enough approximation to compare the two when deciding what to wear. Attempting to guess what HD monsters I'm going to be facing in any/all upcoming battles and figure out how much EV is "Optimal" for that range and then trying to balance my AC vs EV for that value sounds like an exercise in tedium more grandiose than trying to complete all the ultimate weapons in FF7.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 18:01 by Sandman25

and into wrote:This is why there's no golden number or formula that is going to work in all cases, and yet despite this, there are good general minimum goals to reach by certain points in the game, and it isn't too hard for an experienced player to look at a CIP and say, "Your EV is a bit low" or whatever.

I think there are no good general minimum goals to reach by certain points in the game because they greatly depend on species, background and body armour. Experienced players analyze combo, skills and equipment or alternatively just recall their own stats for a similar character. For example, if HOFi in plate armour has 12 Armour and 10 Dodging, then "Your AC is a bit low". If SpEn has 15 Hexes and 5 Dodging, then "Your EV is a bit low".

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 18:53 by and into

Siegurt wrote:Attempting to guess what HD monsters I'm going to be facing in any/all upcoming battles and figure out how much EV is "Optimal" for that range and then trying to balance my AC vs EV for that value sounds like an exercise in tedium more grandiose than trying to complete all the ultimate weapons in FF7.

Yes, of course, this is all much more meta-game discussion and does not really offer any practical advice, but it is interesting nevertheless.

Theoretically a bit more AC or EV (or Stealth) could have made the difference some cases for this or that character, but really you die in Crawl because you make a bad decision or a mistake in the heat of the moment. Neglecting defensive skills definitely puts you in more tough spots, making your character more precarious, but it is all sliding probabilities one way or another on a scale. (I've seen some victory posts of characters with crazy low EV and AC, for instance—and not only from experts running challenge builds.)

EDIT: Sandman25, yeah, that's what I was driving at. There isn't any generalizable optimum, but there are general "rule of thumb" minimum values that one can practically offer for specific builds to reach by certain points in the game.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 19:17 by Link

Hmm, okay then, So I've cleared up to D:21, and I honestly feel not that comfortable going forward, I was thinking of going back and doing the Shoals and Spiders Nest, Is that a good idea? Also can you attack monsters while flying and such?

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 19:21 by Sandman25

Spider 5 and Shoals 5 can be more dangerous than D22. Flight does not prevent you from attacking, its only downside is susceptibility to Airstrike spell.

Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 19:40 by Link

Oh really? Thats good to know, so I can do each from 1-4 then, and then prehaps move into D22 afterwards.