Lava Orcs and Dragon Form

[DracheReborn]

So if I'm reading the code right, Dragon Form adds one level of rC-, and fired up LO adds another level. So a LO in Dragon Form would actually need 2 ranks of rC in order to be sure of canceling cold vulnerability, right? All while only being able to wear jewelry? Oh oh.

I'm being to wonder why LOTm is a recommended combo. Ice Form and Statue Form are already severely limited, now it turns out Dragon Form has a huge gotcha. Thankfully Blade Hands still works.

[Amnesiac]

IDA is probably the best choice for that combo, then

[rebthor]

I think you just answered your own question. For almost every Tm once you get past lair, you can pretend that the only forms that exist are spider form and blade hands.

[rebthor]

IDA is probably the best choice for that combo, then

IDA doesn't help in dragon form.

[Amnesiac]

oh, right... I haven't played transmuters much, so I forgot that armour melds

[nago]

Ice Form and Statue Form are already severely limited

Have you tried ice form enough? Seriously overpowered is more accurate description of the spell. By the time you should be able to cast it, it will be extremely good against 99% of the possible threats, as there aren't many dangerous enemies who use fire attack. Later in Lair it will pulverize anything (except fire drake, lindwurm and occasionally fire dragon, but well..). Even after Lair I seldom find still useful against some enemies, so I wouldn't complain so much about a lv.4 spell in a starting book

[DracheReborn]

Ice Form and Statue Form both go away when your LO internal temperature goes up.

But yes, I like Ice Form. I like all the forms (well, Dragon Form least probably), which is why I'm kinda pissed that for Lava orcs anyway, Blade Hands and occasionally Dragon Form are the only options.

[dck]

I think you just answered your own question. For almost every Tm once you get past lair, you can pretend that the only forms that exist are spider form and blade hands.

What.
Ice form is extremely strong and new DF is good for plenty of characters since it doesn't demand ridiculous amounts of investment anymore and doesn't screw with ozo's armour.

[DracheReborn]

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Ozo's and stoneskin don't work either at high temp. So lava orcs are very strong in some ways (maybe too strong), but LOTm have some serious problems.

[MoogleDan]

They have that really nice Transmutations skill aptitude, but I really don't see why. Tm aptitude implies control over their physiology, which they have less of than any other species.

[BlackSheep]

I think it's the fact that their form is already somewhat amorphous that makes it easier for them to change it.

[rebthor]

I think you just answered your own question. For almost every Tm once you get past lair, you can pretend that the only forms that exist are spider form and blade hands.

What.
Ice form is extremely strong and new DF is good for plenty of characters since it doesn't demand ridiculous amounts of investment anymore and doesn't screw with ozo's armour.

I can think of a handful of things I'd rather fight after lair with ice form instead of blade hands. Ice dragons, maybe hydra and ... that's pretty much it. And blade hands also doesn't screw with ozo's armour last I checked. And you get to keep all your armour.

[nago]

Try to pummel spiny frogs or black mambas (who are among the most dangerous foes in Lair) with ice form instead of blade hands next time, you should see why the former is *far* better than the latter.
And generally speaking, in Lair a character has usually better defences in ice form than with blade hands, so the former is better against everything 99% of time.

[DracheReborn]

What's more, Ice Form with Ozo's Armour gets bonus AC, so if you have Ozo's and no dragon armour, Ice Form + Ozo's will be better defensively than Blade Hands + Ozo's well past Lair, I think.

[rebthor]

Try to pummel spiny frogs or black mambas (who are among the most dangerous foes in Lair) with ice form instead of blade hands next time, you should see why the former is *far* better than the latter.
And generally speaking, in Lair a character has usually better defences in ice form than with blade hands, so the former is better against everything 99% of time.

Did anyone read my posts at all?

For almost every Tm once you get past lair, you can pretend that the only forms that exist are spider form and blade hands.

I can think of a handful of things I'd rather fight after lair with ice form instead of blade hands.

[rebthor]

What's more, Ice Form with Ozo's Armour gets bonus AC, so if you have Ozo's and no dragon armour, Ice Form + Ozo's will be better defensively than Blade Hands + Ozo's well past Lair, I think.

Because the Tm book has Ozo's in it and there's so little decent armour anywhere in the dungeon.

[DracheReborn]

Because the Tm book has Ozo's in it and there's so little decent armour anywhere in the dungeon.

Ozo's Armour is at least as common as "decent" armour, depending on your definition of decent. If you're lucky with aux armour, then yes common medium armour (leather or ring mail with low enchantment) might be better than Ice Form base AC. But otherwise you'd mean dragon armour, which isn't that common.