What can a tengu do that a high elf can't?

[Velikolepni]

I really want to like the tengu, but everytime I try to make a character I stumble on the following problems:
1) their abilities don't synergize well. They have good combat abilities and auxiliary attacks but very poor health, so building close combat specialists is dangerous. They have good conjuration abilities, but these don't work well in conjuction with a weapon, because most of the time one only needs one way to kill monsters, not two. They have somewhat poor aptitudes in charms which makes learning support spells for melee specialists harder. Comparing with a high elf, who has good to ok aptitudes in Long Blades, Fighting, Charms, Air and Ice magic, they come lacking. Tengu are better at armour, but again their low hp make them ill suited for heavy armour melee fighters that forgo spells.
2) As mages they are again inferior to high elves due to their penalties in spellcasting and charms. Only as venom mages are they somewhat better, but I never manage to get those going past the mid-game and even if I could, late game they would still be inferior to an elf.
3) As archers/ long-range fighters they still get beaten by the high elves and this time it's not even close.
4) One might retort that elves require a lot of xp to level and since tengu are slightly better at fighting the hp difference is not that high, but in my experience this just doesn't seem to work, unless one puts a lot of xp into fighting to the detriment of many other skills.

Thus everytime I try to play as a tengu I quickly realize that a high elf would have been more suitable. Essentially, I am looking for some character build in which they are strictly, significantly better than the elves.

[rebthor]

They are better conjurers than HE but sturdier than DE. They also have flight and inherent swiftness + dodging boost when flying. They also level up much faster than HE do, so at an equivalent dungeon level you'll have similar HP until later in the game.

With all that said, I also want to like Tengu but find their fragility too much of a downside.

[Velikolepni]

They are better conjurers than HE but sturdier than DE.

They are not much better conjurers than HE because they are significantly worse at spellcasting (which needs to be at least somewhat high by the mid-game to alleviate food costs).

[rebthor]

In mid game, there are tons of edible corpses. Secondly, getting high level conjurations up early allows you to branch out earlier into other things that will keep you alive like fighting and dodging.

[nago]

15ish (or even less) in spellcasting during midgame is enough, and HE's +1 isn't so much better than Te's -1. Like rebthor said, their overall higher apts in some magic schools (fire and air magic, conjuration) is much more valuable.
And the different exp apt is really a big difference, being able to level up faster in early game is very good.

That said, I prefer too He over Te.

[DracheReborn]

1) their abilities don't synergize well.

As somewhat of a Tengu fan, I do agree with this sentiment. But the problem here I think is that Conjurations doesn't synergize well with any other school, unlike Charms for example. I also agree that Tengu's 2 aux attacks don't go well with low HP - I'd much rather have the 2 armor slots back myself.

Inherent swiftness is pretty good though. If you can remember to keep flying up anyway (which I don't always, hence many Te splats).

As regards the comparison to HE, Te are stronger in summons and necromancy aptitudes. So going this route for conjurations backup is quite feasible for Te.

If there's one thing I'd like to change about Te (other than low HP), it's to flip the Fire and Ice aptitudes. Or at least make them both 0. Ice school shores up Te's weaknesses much more than Fire, IMO, and there doesn't seem to be a thematic reason why Te should favor one over the other.

[Velikolepni]

As regards the comparison to HE, Te are stronger in summons and necromancy aptitudes. So going this route for conjurations backup is quite feasible for Te.

It's somewhat sad that Vehumet doesn't support summoning anymore. I think this change has nerfed Tengu somewhat and I am not sure if it was intentional.

[Volteccer_Jack]

What can a tengu do that a high elf can't?

Move at 0.9 speed.

4) One might retort that elves require a lot of xp to level and since tengu are slightly better at fighting the hp difference is not that high, but in my experience this just doesn't seem to work, unless one puts a lot of xp into fighting to the detriment of many other skills.

Assuming both races have 0 fighting skill and are playing an elementalist class. At XL1, the HE has 11 HP to the Te's 10 HP. At XL5, the HE has 31 HP to the Te's 28 HP. However, Tengu levels faster than HE. At XL4, the HE only has 27 HP. And at XL6, the Tengu will have 32 HP.

They have good combat abilities and auxiliary attacks but very poor health, so building close combat specialists is dangerous.

High Elves and Tengu have very similar HP throughout the early game. Tengu however, get two auxiliary attacks, and +20% EV starting at XL5 (and the ability to get out of melee if necessary), which makes them noticeably better at melee than High Elves.

They have good conjuration abilities, but these don't work well in conjuction with a weapon, because most of the time one only needs one way to kill monsters, not two.

Conjurations work fine in conjunction with a weapon, because most of the time your MP is less than infinity. Also Dazzling Spray, Sticky Flame, Conjure Flame, Mephitic Cloud, and a bunch of other Conjurations have direct synergy with melee combat.

Tengu are better at armour, but again their low hp make them ill suited for heavy armour melee fighters that forgo spells.

The whole point of armour is to protect your HP, so I'm really not sure where you're getting the idea that "low HP character shouldn't wear armour". Try a gargoyle, high AC and low HP is their main feature. The only thing about Tengu that discourages heavy armour is the +20% EV, but if you actually do "forgo spells" you should have plenty of XP lying around to dump into Dodging, so even that won't be a concern.

spellcasting (which needs to be at least somewhat high by the mid-game to alleviate food costs).

Conjurations should basically always be higher than Spellcasting, so the tengu aptitude distribution is better for a pure conjurer. Additionally if you branch into melee, food costs become significantly less important.

3) As archers/ long-range fighters they still get beaten by the high elves and this time it's not even close.

0.9 speed means TeHu can freely kite ogres, gnolls, orcs, giants, yaks, etc. Auxiliary attacks mean Te has better melee, so it can conserve ammo more easily at the very beginning of the game.

It's somewhat sad that Vehumet doesn't support summoning anymore. I think this change has nerfed Tengu somewhat and I am not sure if it was intentional.

It's a nerf to Vehumet, not Tengu. And anyway, the Tengu Summoning apt isn't particularly amazing. Have you ever tried playing a TeSu? They're surprisingly weak. It's an excellent aptitude for allowing my tengu to pick up summoning spells on the side, but as a character who primarily summons, you're better off with Spellcasting, since the ability to spam summons endlessly is more important than spell power.

[crate]

the actual reason HE is better at spells is HE has better int so they get more spellpower

tengu also have the advantage that you know they're awful before you try to play one, whereas with HE you play one and think they're good and then every single time your character is bad and you are confused