A few questions on whats better and identing jewellery

[delarado]

Hi guys,

My again, the man with a million questions...

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-921-g3f17ee7 (console) character file.

ffs the Grappler (Troll Berserker)                  Turns: 5066, Time: 00:40:11

HP  76/76        AC  7     Str 26      XL: 8   Next: 57%
MP   2/2         EV 12     Int  3      God: Trog [****..]
Gold 128         SH  0     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .     - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   q - +1 animal skin
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (shield restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   z - +0 cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   (gloves unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   (no amulet)
Gourmand  : +                        B - +2 ring of evasion
                                     f - ring of sustenance

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fire resistance 1, fast metabolism 3, gourmand,
regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +1
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You are on level 6 of the Dungeon.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 7 of its levels.

You have collected 108 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Missiles
 c - 45 stones (quivered)
Armour
 q - a +1 animal skin (worn)
 z - a +0 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a wand of flame {recharged}
Comestibles
 a - 3 meat rations
 d - an apricot
 h - a pear
 o - 4 bread rations
 r - a banana
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of fog
 g - 2 scrolls of blinking
 k - 2 scrolls of fear
 l - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
 t - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 v - a scroll of teleportation
 F - a scroll of magic mapping
Jewellery
 e - a +2 ring of intelligence
 f - a ring of sustenance (left claw)
 i - a +5 ring of protection
 m - a +1 ring of protection
 n - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 x - an uncursed ring of fire
 y - a +4 ring of strength
 A - an uncursed tubular onyx ring {tried}
 B - a +2 ring of evasion (right claw)
Potions
 p - 3 potions of curing
 s - a potion of invisibility
 u - 2 orange potions
 w - a viscous blue potion
 C - a brown potion


   Skills:
 - Level 2.4 Fighting
 - Level 2.6 Dodging
 + Level 10.6 Unarmed Combat


You have 7 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (7/27)             Temple (0/1) D:4         
   Orc: D:6-11     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Nemelex Xobeh
Yredelemnul

Shops:
D:5: %


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).
Your flesh is heat resistant.


Message History

Eat one of 2 chunks of gnoll flesh? (ye/n/q/i?)
This raw flesh tastes great.
You continue eating.
Eat a chunk of gnoll flesh? (ye/n/q/i?)
This raw flesh tastes great.
You continue eating.
Put on which piece of jewellery? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Wearing a tubular onyx ring.
You're wearing two rings. Remove which one? (f/i/</>/Esc)
 < or f - a ring of sustenance;  > or i - a +5 ring of protection
You remove your +5 ring of protection.
A - a tubular onyx ring (right claw) {tried}
Put on which piece of jewellery? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Wearing an encrusted opal ring.
You're wearing two rings. Remove which one? (f/A/</>/Esc)
 < or f - a ring of sustenance;  > or A - a tubular onyx ring {tried}
You remove your tubular onyx ring {tried}.
B - a +2 ring of evasion (right claw)
Char dumped to '/Users/carlnewton/Library/Application Support/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup/morgue/ffs.txt'.
Saving game... please wait.

#####                  .
....#
....#                .
....#                ....
....#                .....
....#                .....#
....#                .....#
....#                .....#
....#################.....##
.............................
................@.%..........
.............................
....).......................
.%.%[.......................
...)#################.....##
....#                .....#
....#                .....
....#                ....
....#                ...
....#               #.....#
....#               #.....#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Grinder (D:3)
  2 orc warriors (D:6)
  The ghost of ffs the Ruffian, an average TrBe of Trog (D:3)
  Purgy (D:3)
  A giant goldfish zombie (D:4)
  Blork the orc (D:4)
  4 crimson imps (D:6)
  An ogre skeleton (D:4)
  A hound (D:6)
  2 hound zombies
  An iguana (D:4)
  2 orc wizards (D:5)
  2 worker ants (D:4)
  A big fish zombie (D:4)
  Jessica (D:3)
  2 adders
  8 gnolls
  2 adder skeletons
  An adder zombie (D:7)
  2 giant mites
  3 worms
  A bat skeleton (D:5)
  2 oozes
  14 orcs
  A ball python (D:3)
  10 bats
  9 hobgoblins
  7 kobolds
  5 quokkas
  2 giant cockroaches (D:2)
  4 giant geckos
  2 giant newts
  10 goblins
  2 hobgoblin skeletons (D:4)
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:5)
  9 jackals
  9 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:6)
129 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A giant spore (D:6)
1 creature vanquished.

Grand Total: 130 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | ffs, the Troll Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 23/23 MP: 0/0
   201 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 31/31 MP: 0/0
   393 | D:1      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
   512 | D:2      | Acquired Trog's second power
   512 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  1217 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 37/37 MP: 1/1
  1549 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  1642 | D:3      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  1775 | D:3      | Noticed Jessica
  1786 | D:3      | Killed Jessica
  1786 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1786 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 46/46 MP: 1/1
  1798 | D:3      | Noticed Purgy
  1822 | D:3      | Killed Purgy
  1822 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  1822 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/53 MP: 1/1
  1888 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  1893 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 5 turns
  1915 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 5 turns
  1923 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  1923 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  1923 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 35/61 MP: 2/2
  2528 | D:3      | Noticed ffs' ghost (average TrBe)
  2545 | D:3      | Killed ffs' ghost
  2545 | D:3      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2545 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 68/68 MP: 2/2
  2644 | D:3      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is heat resistant. [potion of beneficial mutation]
  3034 | D:4      | Noticed a giant goldfish zombie
  3044 | D:4      | Killed a giant goldfish zombie
  3050 | D:4      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  3070 | D:4      | Noticed Blork the orc
  3086 | D:4      | Killed Blork the orc
  3273 | D:4      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  3362 | D:4      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  3544 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3936 | D:5      | Found Moasaal's Food Shoppe.
  4290 | D:5      | Acquired Trog's third power
  4376 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 49/76 MP: 2/2
  4619 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    90 |    71 |   195 ||   356
Throw: Stone             |       |     2 |       ||     2
Invok: Berserk           |       |     1 |     2 ||     3
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |     5 |       ||     5
  Use: Potion            |     2 |       |     5 ||     7
       Scroll            |    11 |       |    10 ||    21



What is better, a +5 ring of protection (which I think gives me +5 AC) or a ring of +2 evasion??

I'm guessing +5 AC, as that would give me a chance to reduce between 0 and 5 damage on every attack. A +2 ring of evasion just gives me a slightly higher chance to evade the attack completely, which probably isn't that high because as a troll I'm presumably huge and not very good at evading stuff. What is a good evasion rating though? Currently I can have +7 AC and +12 EV or +12 AC and +10EV. Im guessing the latter is better?

Also, are using scrolls of ident the only way to ident a piece of jewellery that doesn't auto-ident when you put it on? Is there a skill that increases the chances of identing jewellery?

Lastly, those potions, should I just quaff them to ident them?

I haven't identified potions of degeneration yet, but thats the only one I can think of that could really cause me problems (That I've seen so far anyway, thats if it degenerates my int) I do have a ring of int to combat this though. I have identified curing and heal wounds, might, speed, and brilliance though, so I know its not them.

[crate]

1 ac and 1 ev are roughly equally good, and this is pretty much independent of your current defenses. Generally 1 ac is slightly better than 1 ev.

Scrolls are the reasonable way to identify jewellery that doesn't autoid. You could check for a ring of protection from fire/ice/lifeprotection by hitting yourself with an attack it resists if you wanted. Sustenance and hunger autoid (assuming you are a race that eats) but it takes a bit of time to do so.

Usually it is best to use ?id on potions also, since if you do this you get one more !speed, one more !agility, one more !might, etc; and each of these is considerably more valuable than a single ?id (enough that it generally makes up for the ?id wasted on bad potions). If you feel like you really need to know what your potions are but you do not have ?id to use on them, then you can quaff-id stacks of more-than-one (ideally you do this on a > so that if it's something good you can go down and explore with your potion buffs up, and if it's bad you're safe).

Quaff-id on stacks of 1 is not very useful unless you need a potion immediately and it is unidentified.

[delarado]

Interesting, I didnt know jewellery auto id'd after a time, I always took them straight off if they didn't auto ID in case it was something bad.

So ID scrolls on potions. Read scrolls to ID them. Wield weapons to ID, Wear armor to ID (As long as you have remove curse) Evoke wands to ID.

I've been starting most games by quaff-id'ing potions for the first 3 levels, but I'm finding this tends to leave me with no heal wounds which is annoying. Are they rare or am I just unlucky?

Does AC / EV have different rules on different classes? E.g is 10EV better on a spriggan than on a minotaur? Is 10AC better on a centaur than a deep elf? (Forgetting the spellcasting penalties)

[Amnesiac]

I think the most dangerous potion is mutation, so I think it's safe to drink them after you have identified a potion of cure mutation with a scroll. Having a potion of restore abilities is good, too. Though it's not good to waste potions, because they can save your life or let you fight a stronger enemy. You can step into a cloud of fire of fire to ID a ring of fire if you don't want or don't have a wand, but before that I'd suggest you remove all the scrolls(or potions if you want to zap yourself with a wand of cold)

[savageorange]

In my estimation you are correct, a more challenging question might be say, +5 AC vs +7 EV. (1 point of AC seems generally better than 1 point of EV, but larger quantities of EV become more and more useful.)

Also, are using scrolls of ident the only way to ident a piece of jewellery that doesn't auto-ident when you put it on?

No, things identify when you have an opportunity to recognize their effect (in some cases never). For example rings of hunger ID the next time your hunger status visibly worsens.
(this should also answer the question following that one.)

[prozacelf]

For rings, teleport and hunger are the only two "bad" non-artifact ones, and they're both always cursed. Note that not all cursed rings are one of those 2 however. For amulets you can be worse off because the amulet of inaccuracy is rarely cursed and won't auto-id. Generally speaking it's wise to use a scroll on amulets since inaccuracy sucks, stasis can get you killed sometimes, and removing faith can be annoying.

[joellercoaster]

I think the most dangerous potion is mutation, so I think it's safe to drink them after you have identified a potion of cure mutation with a scroll.

For beginners this is not bad advice. But for players whose games last longer and for whom late-game mutation can sometimes be a serious hassle, this is definitely a waste of a potion of (very rare) cure mutation.

[delarado]

I think the most dangerous potion is mutation, so I think it's safe to drink them after you have identified a potion of cure mutation with a scroll.

For beginners this is not bad advice. But for players whose games last longer and for whom late-game mutation can sometimes be a serious hassle, this is definitely a waste of a potion of (very rare) cure mutation.

Yeah I think I've only ever seen one, and a I quaff ID'd it when I had no mutations

I have found a potion of beneficial mutation in this game though so I'm now resistant to fire, which is nice

[Amnesiac]

For beginners this is not bad advice. But for players whose games last longer and for whom late-game mutation can sometimes be a serious hassle, this is definitely a waste of a potion of (very rare) cure mutation.

Well... First you need to reach this later game. A potion of mutation can give you something good, too. And you might find more later or a reliable way to avoid mutations. What you say is an optimal(I think this forum likes this word) way, but it's boring.

Yeah I think I've only ever seen one, and a I quaff ID'd it when I had no mutations

I have found a potion of beneficial mutation in this game though so I'm now resistant to fire, which is nice

That's your fault, because you must drink potions after you have ID'd a potion of cure mutation. I do this sometimes, too, though, for the thrill.

[le_nerd]

Control teleport/stasis will ID when you teleport; ring of slaying effect is subtle, but can be spotted. Interestingly enough slaying can be negative- if you suddenly have a much harder time, it could be -5 -6 ring of slaying.

[delarado]

Thanks for all the help guys, and sorry to keep bumping this thread...

Found a ring, wore it for ages, no identification. Turned out to be A - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities... I take it these will never auto ident?

Also have a H - a runed beryl amulet (around neck) {tried}

Hasn't identified in an entire dungeon floor so far. Should I scroll ID it?

[Amnesiac]

It should, when your stats are being drained.(I'm not sure, though, it's just using the logic of all other auto-ID)

[mopl]

It should, when your stats are being drained.(I'm not sure, though, it's just using the logic of all other auto-ID)

Indeed it is auto-ID when your stat are drained (because of sickness, potion of decay, death curse...)
But if you are wearing 2 {tried} rings, auto-ID won't work (tha'ts true for every type of rings that don't wear-ID : sustenance, SInv, rF,...)

[BlackSheep]

Rings of sustain abilities never auto-id. (Nor do rings of slaying or protection from magic)

Correction: sustAb will auto-id if it prevents all of a given stat loss (i.e. potions of degeneration are a bad test)

[Amnesiac]

Oh yeah, you should use only 1 un-ID'd item if you want it to auto-ID (right? or is it just rings).

Rings of sustain abilities never auto-id. (Nor do rings of slaying or protection from magic)

why is that? If you use logic other auto-IDs use, then it should, or it would be... illogical.