Rescue this DECj on the orb run


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 27

Joined: Friday, 5th July 2013, 12:45

Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 20:45

Rescue this DECj on the orb run

So for the first time I got an all-rune run, and I suppose all the new sights of pan made me dizzy, since I made some bad decisions when two OoFs showed up to say farewell on my orbrun. Here's the relevant overview:
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  Code:
HP  47/186 (197) AC 22     Str 10      XL: 27
MP   2/50        EV 31     Int 41      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 3310        SH 11     Dex 15      Spells: 16 memorised,  0 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : .   b - staff of energy
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   E - +2 orc robe {rC+ rF+}
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : .   j - +2 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   G - +2 wizard hat {Int+3}
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : +   h - +1 cloak {MR+}
Sust.Abil.: + .     Spirit.Shd : .   c - +1 pair of gloves "Gruvaula" {+Fly rF+}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   z - +2 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Res.Rott. : +       Flight     : .   g - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR++}
Saprovore : . . .                    e - ring of sustain abilities
                                     x - ring of Frihohi {rPois Str+2 Int+4}

@: lich-form (expiring), very slightly contaminated, hasted, very quick,
uncannily resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: End Transformation, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian,
icy, bone, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - the +9,+9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You found it on level 7 of Gehenna)
Armour
 c - the +1 pair of gloves "Gruvaula" (worn) {+Fly rF+}
   (You acquired it on level 8 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It lets you fly.
 h - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 j - a +2 buckler of protection (worn)
 z - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 E - a +2 orcish robe of resistance (worn)
 G - a +2 wizard hat of intelligence (worn)
Magical devices
 p - a wand of digging
 r - a wand of lightning (4)
 t - a wand of hasting (4)
 I - a wand of teleportation (6)
 K - a wand of digging (5)
 O - a wand of hasting (7)
Comestibles
 s - 4 bread rations
Scrolls
 l - a scroll of summoning
 v - a scroll of identify
 y - 2 scrolls of blinking
 J - a scroll of fog
 L - a scroll of teleportation
Jewellery
 a - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 d - the amulet "Cympoom" {Cons rF+ Acc+6}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Iron City of Dis)   
   
   [amulet of conservation]
   It affects your accuracy (+6).
   It protects you from fire.
 e - a ring of sustain abilities (right hand)
 g - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 n - the ring "Nitur" {Hunger- rF+ Int+3}
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   [ring of sustenance]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
 x - the ring of Frihohi (left hand) {rPois Str+2 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
 D - the ring of Vaqostas {+/*Tele rElec Acc+3 SInv}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   It affects your accuracy (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 H - the ring "Croufiam" {EV+4 Dex+4 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 5 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
 U - the ring of Wumin {rC+ MR++ Acc+4 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 13 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   It affects your accuracy (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 Z - a cursed amulet of stasis
Potions
 f - 5 potions of curing
 m - 3 potions of resistance
 o - a potion of restore abilities
 q - 4 potions of speed
 F - a potion of heal wounds
 P - a potion of magic
 R - 3 potions of cure mutation
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of energy (weapon)
Orbs of Power
 i - the Orb of Zot
Miscellaneous
 u - a fan of gales
 A - a phial of floods
 S - a phial of floods
Rods
 M - a +7 rod of demonology (9/9)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)
 V - a +6 rod of destruction (10/10)
   (You found it on level 15 of a ziggurat)


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 2.4 Shields
 - Level 6.6 Traps
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 O Level 27 Conjurations
   Level 3.1 Hexes
 - Level 7.5 Charms
 - Level 1.5 Summonings
 - Level 23.7 Necromancy
 - Level 12.0 Translocations
 - Level 10.0 Transmutations
 + Level 21.6 Fire Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
   Level 5.3 Poison Magic
 - Level 21.0 Evocations


You cannot memorise any spells.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         0%          1    N/A
b - Force Lance           Conj           ######       0%          2    N/A
c - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      ########..   1%          9    N/A
d - Haunt                 Necr/Summ      ########..   1%          7    N/A
e - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   0%          1    N/A
f - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ########..   0%          6    N/A
g - Necromutation         Trmt/Necr      ########..   1%          8    N/A
h - Passage of Golubria   Tloc           N/A          1%          4    N/A
i - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          3    N/A
j - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    N/A
k - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   0%          7    N/A
l - Phase Shift           Tloc           ########..   1%          5    N/A
m - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ######..     1%          1    N/A
n - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          8    N/A
o - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     1%          6    N/A
p - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          1%          7    N/A

 ***,,,,,......%............,, ,, **
 **,,,,,,,..................  ,,,,**
**,,,,,,,,...................,, ,,,**
* ,,,,,,,,...[.....<.......[.,,,,,,,**
,,,,,,,,,,§....[..[..........,,,,,,,,**
8,,,,,,,,...[...............,,,,,,,,,,**
,,,,******######.....#######*****,,,,,,*******
,,,***         #.....#         ***,,,,,, ,,, ,
,,, ,*******   #.....#   *******,,,,,,,,,, ,,,
,, ,,,,,,,.##**##...##*###.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
8,, ,,,,,......##...##......,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,...!....§.[........,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
*********##########.########******************
,,....#*   #........*......#   **,, ,, ,,,,,,,
.......##  ##..........L..##   *,,,,,,,,,, , ,
........##  #.............#  **,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.........#  ##...*.......##  *,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.........#   #...........#   *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.........#  ##......R....#*  *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.........#  #.............#  *,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,
.........# ##.............** *,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,
...^.....###...............***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.......%###...###########,,,***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.......##....##         **, ,,**,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
..*.^......###           ***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
############               *** ********** ,,,,
...^...####                 ****,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
..........###             ***,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,


You can see 2 orbs of fire and a rakshasa.


Is there any chance I'm not completely dead? It would be a shame to loose my first all-runer just like that.
I'm thinking to use scroll of fog, then pop tele, then retreat couple tiles or use evocables. Will fog block LOS sufficiently against OoFs? Also the stairway is mere tiles away, should I just use blink and pray that it throws me in the right direction?
I'm assuming trying to cancel necromutation and quaff heal or mana will just result in me dead in one turn.
Last edited by whale on Monday, 15th July 2013, 20:53, edited 2 times in total.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 20:52

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I would read fog, start a teleport, end lichform, quaff heal wounds. A tricky situation, what say the boys in blue?

Vestibule Violator

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Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 20:58

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I'm not one of the boys in blue, but I would do the exact same. The most important are the first two steps in that order.

And this boys and girls is one of the reasons that lichform is bad.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 63

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 08:19

Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 21:37

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Fog+Teleport sound sensible enough. But as step 3 I would have thought Summon Butterflies made more sense. Really not sure about this, though :/

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 21:43

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

You could also try fog, tele, summoning. I'd think since they don't have a LOS to you the summons will distract them for quite a while.

Unarmed Combat 27.0

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:01

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Would fog really help? I feel like they'd be through that the same turn you use it since they're so damn fast. Its worth mentioning that CBlink does allow you to pick the general direction you want to go on Zot:5 if I'm not mistaken. If you CBlinked up/left and then up you could be near stairs and maybe even out of LOS.

My money is on you dying though.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:05

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

diviton wrote:Would fog really help? I feel like they'd be through that the same turn you use it since they're so damn fast.

They are the same speed as hasted PC.
diviton wrote:Its worth mentioning that CBlink does allow you to pick the general direction you want to go on Zot:5 if I'm not mistaken. If you CBlinked up/left and then up you could be near stairs and maybe even out of LOS.

But not with 2 mp.
diviton wrote:My money is on you dying though.

This is a very real possibility.

Dis Charger

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:24

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I thought that when you have 15 runes you can't be threatened by anything anymore... I don't even know how one can end it such a bad situation. Pretty unlucky to not have a wand of healing, too.

Waiting for a teleport to kick in seems hopeless. Maybe fog, channel and ice storm? Or something like fog, channel mana, butterflies, phase shift, more butterflies if needed, some kind of storms that you can aim at orbs.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:35

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Amnesiac wrote: Maybe fog, channel and ice storm?

You can't target squares which you can't see so depending on how the fog plays out you might be shooting an OOF at melee range with ice storm.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:42

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Too bad you don't have swiftness, Haste+swiftness would let you move faster than the orbs and increase your likelihood of getting away.

I'd probably do fog, speed pot, teleport, butterflies, walk away... But that has a better than even chance of getting you killed, and really isn't any better than anything anyone else has come up with.
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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:43

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Mankeli wrote:
Amnesiac wrote: Maybe fog, channel and ice storm?

You can't target squares which you can't see so depending on how the fog plays out you might be shooting an OOF at melee range with ice storm.

Also note he's only got 2 MP at the moment.
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Dis Charger

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:48

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Fog will win some time. Butterflies will prolong it. Evoking wucad will give mana. Phase shift will give chance to avoid bolts of fire, butterflies will shield from a fire ball. These are all just possibilities, though. A teleport might take up to .. a lot of turns, while carrying the orb, so it's might very well be hopeless. It's choosing between tactics or hoping for luck.
Last edited by Amnesiac on Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:54, edited 2 times in total.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:52

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Siegurt wrote:
Mankeli wrote:
Amnesiac wrote: Maybe fog, channel and ice storm?

You can't target squares which you can't see so depending on how the fog plays out you might be shooting an OOF at melee range with ice storm.

Also note he's only got 2 MP at the moment.

Read the posts above.

Also the character is already hasted and besides in lichform (although expiring) which makes drinking kind of difficult.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 23:15

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Didn't notice that he was already hasted, good point, then speed pot both not an option and not needed. He's moving at the same pace as the orbs, but is in a bad position to exit the room without them catching up.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 00:39

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Fog will most likely do nothing here. In general, you should only use it to block the LOS of something orthogonal to you. Scroll of summoning might be better, and then maybe stepping to the right, teleporting, cancelling lich form (ugh), and using your one heal. There are just a lot of things wrong with this character that are limiting your options. Something to think about for next time, I guess.
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Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 01:06

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

What I really don't understand is why you are wielding a staff of energy.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 02:37

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Amnesiac wrote:What I really don't understand is why you are wielding a staff of energy.

Wucad Mu was draining my Int even through SustAb far too often. Things were dying happily enough even with energy.

diviton wrote:Its worth mentioning that CBlink does allow you to pick the general direction you want to go on Zot:5 if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, I thought so too. A turn ago I was between the upper orb and the stairs, and cBlink didn't give a choice and kinda screw me over.

mikee wrote:Fog will most likely do nothing here. In general, you should only use it to block the LOS of something orthogonal to you. Scroll of summoning might be better, and then maybe stepping to the right, teleporting, cancelling lich form (ugh), and using your one heal. There are just a lot of things wrong with this character that are limiting your options. Something to think about for next time, I guess.

Care to expand on this? I'd really appreciate some feedback. I'm guessing my god choice, no heal wand (I was unlucky with this one, didn't find it even in zigs and from acq).

minmay wrote:Did you find Necromutation in a randart book? Because if not, you had the opportunity to learn what are probably the two best necromancy spells in the game (Death's Door and Borgnjor's Revivification), and certainly the best level 7+ spells in the game, and instead you chose to learn what is the worst necromancy spell in the game (and possibly the worst spell in the game, period).

I seem to get that a lot :D
What's the deal with necro being SO bad? It removes a lot of tedious eating and accidental mutating for one thing. I'm obviously not a very experienced player, but I shudder at the thought of doing tomb and not being undead tbh.

Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 03:11

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I think the problem with cBlink in this situation is there is a lot of walls in the direction you want to blink, so odds are you'd end up further from where you wanted to be and probably closer to the orbs.

I don't think necromutation is the worst spell. It's a big investment but once you have your endgame killing spell there's a ton of XP to be found in extended, and ignoring torment makes your life easier. It is a lot more tedious than eating food though. To me though that XP is better invested in evo and using a CBoE or sublimation/regen and wielding an enhancer staff, but I don't usually have food issues on casters and I don't usually spam big killing spells because they're too loud.

Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 03:28

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

whale wrote:Wucad Mu was draining my Int even through SustAb far too often. Things were dying happily enough even with energy.

I still don't get it. I don't think that wucad drains your int from using it in melee combat(I'm not 100% sure because I've never used it, but it wouldn't make sense) and it has a nice +9 enchantment, while a staff of energy only reduces your spell hunger, what you obviously don't need.
Last edited by Amnesiac on Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 04:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 03:39

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

whale wrote:
What's the deal with necro being SO bad? It removes a lot of tedious eating and accidental mutating for one thing. I'm obviously not a very experienced player, but I shudder at the thought of doing tomb and not being undead tbh.

You can't drink potions, which sucks because potions are really good. (Right now, !HW and !Magic would be pretty delicious.) It's also a lot of XP you could be investing elsewhere. And you could also instead know Death's Door or Borg, either of which would make your character a lot more likely to live.

You can take Tomb alive just fine; take it slowly and quietly.
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Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 04:06

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

You can look at this another way. A need to use DD means that you wasn't careful to keep you health high and your position safe as well as using borg means that you wasn't able to deal with the situation in the duration of DD (or something, I don't even know how you use it as I never felt a need to). While necromutation let's you carry more things!(It actually helped my DEWz with 4 str a lot) Isn't it the only spell that gives you "free" str? (I'm at least half serious). Oh and you can just chew through a crowd of mummies on tomb:3

Unarmed Combat 27.0

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 04:42

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I'm not suggesting it's better than DD or BR, but people saying Necromutation is worthless are just ranting.

I want to know if TC died!

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 11:08

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Necromutation may not be entirely worthless all the time, but it's about to contribute to the entirely avoidable death of a 15-runer here. I'm sure he's very glad he has the extra carrying capacity right now and doesn't need to eat :P

And it's about to do it in about the most classic way possible, short of getting mauled by Shadow Fiends in Tartarus.
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 11:16

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I am sure Torment killed much more characters than that extra 1 turn to cancel lichform.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:29

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

As others have pointed out, it's not just the turn to cancel lichform. Necromutation is also very expensive to acquire for limited real usefulness, and the XP and spell slots you spent getting there mean other, better choices not taken.

It's not utterly worthless, but it's much less of a good idea than it appears when you first read about it.

I have one lichform 15-runer, I'm not immune to its charms. I just don't generally think it's a good thing to aim for.
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh
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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:36

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Also the lichform felid tile is the best ever. OP lich is pretty great too.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:42

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

njvack wrote:Also the lichform felid tile is the best ever.


That is, unquestionably, true.
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh

Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:45

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Sandman25 wrote:I am sure Torment killed much more characters than that extra 1 turn to cancel lichform.


I doubt that's true on Zot:5.

On another topic, I have a very hard time imagining that this character survives being cornered by two full-health OoFs while out of mana. A random teleport won't kick in soon enough unless the OoFs take a lot of junk actions (mutation, movement). If both OoFs fire a spell before the player teleports or heals, the player is probably dead, and since the most likely escape is ?tele -> cancel lichform -> drink potion, the player probably needs 5 of the orbs' next 6 actions to be not firing spells. I think ?tele -> ?fog is a better bet, because if the player doesn't die immediately after reading ?tele, they might well block LOS for a moment from one of the orbs, and if they do that guarantees at least one of 6 actions won't be casting a spell. Even if it doesn't block LOS immediately, the player can take a step back for their next action and block at least two, probably more OoF turns. After that, it probably makes sense to cancel Lichform and drink the potion while hoping tele kicks in.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 13:20

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I'd remove SustAb ring for rF ring as my first action. Then ?of summoning, teleport, butterflies and retreat south and summon more butterflies. And still most likely end up dead.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 13:34

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

whale wrote:Care to expand on this? I'd really appreciate some feedback. I'm guessing my god choice, no heal wand (I was unlucky with this one, didn't find it even in zigs and from acq).

No, those are perfectly reasonable. It's mostly item and spell choices. Your weapon and rings are ones that should be not be in your inventory, not to mention equipped in zot:5 while about to die. Staff of fire/conj, this: H - the ring "Croufiam" {EV+4 Dex+4 Int+4}, this: n - the ring "Nitur" {Hunger- rF+ Int+3} are much better choices. At first glance, amulet of the four winds is a good choice, but this is only because you are in lich form, which you obviously should not be. You have no melee weapon whatsoever and no weapon skill, so I suppose A: when this character has no mp it just dies and B: this character runs out of mp faster than usual because it only uses spells to fight. You could also have been carrying a distortion weapon to use as a desperate measure for escaping.

Spells: these spells are more or less useless for you at this point in the game: magic dart, force lance, passage of golubria, lrd, iood, phase shift. Some spells you should have considered instead: swiftness, rmsl, blink, sublimation of blood, cure poison, regen, dig, borg, ddoor.

It would have also been good to remove the 11 points of rot. 11 hp is quite a bit for a character in this position.
mikee_ has won 166 times in 396 games (41.92%): 4xDSFi 4xMDFi 3xDDCK 3xDDEE 3xHOPr 2xDDHe 2xDDNe 2xDSBe 2xKeAE 2xMfCr 2xMfSt 2xMiAr 2xMiBe 2xNaTm 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCePa 1xCeTm 1xCeWz 1xDDAs 1xDDCr 1xDDHu 1xDDTm 1xDENe 1xDEWz

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 13:37

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Sandman25 wrote:I am sure Torment killed much more characters than that extra 1 turn to cancel lichform.

But torment has never killed anyone. =P

Maybe also pedantic, but someone may be interested: forms take 1.5 turns to cancel.
mikee_ has won 166 times in 396 games (41.92%): 4xDSFi 4xMDFi 3xDDCK 3xDDEE 3xHOPr 2xDDHe 2xDDNe 2xDSBe 2xKeAE 2xMfCr 2xMfSt 2xMiAr 2xMiBe 2xNaTm 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCePa 1xCeTm 1xCeWz 1xDDAs 1xDDCr 1xDDHu 1xDDTm 1xDENe 1xDEWz

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 13:42

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

joellercoaster wrote:Necromutation may not be entirely worthless all the time, but it's about to contribute to the entirely avoidable death of a 15-runer here. I'm sure he's very glad he has the extra carrying capacity right now and doesn't need to eat :P

My imminent death has nothing to do with lichform. Although I would have better chances at surviving if I had DD right now.

I steamrolled Z:5, but the moment I picked up the orb it's like I got a brain aneurysm or smth.
"You don't need to be careful anymore", the orb whispered, "You already won! But don't you want to stay and pway with us here? Look the fire orbs look just like cute furballs! Stay and pwaaay..."
And then I didn't know what minmay said about orbrun and cblinks.

I'll try fog, Tele, evocable fan (it totally rocks, can move even panlords around), then cancel lichform and quaff. If Tele doesn't kick in I'll use water evocables and fstorm water to get a wall of steam. I'll post about what happens as soon as I get home.

P.S. I use staff of energy to channel mana ofcourse, not for hunger costs. I usually switch to wucad mu in tough spots, but this time... you get the idea.

Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 14:16

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I would go out on a limb and say that when you're in a situation where you're about to die and you can't use your only source of healing because of a spell you have active, and all the advice on how to survive the situation involves "cancel that spell that you have active so that you can actually heal", then that spell is probably at least tangentially related to your imminent death.

Of course alternately you could ignore the advice of all the really good players who are trying to help you, and die again next game by using such a spell in a place where it has no effects other than all the incredibly bad ones.

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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:24

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Amnesiac wrote:While necromutation let's you carry more things!(It actually helped my DEWz with 4 str a lot) Isn't it the only spell that gives you "free" str? (I'm at least half serious).

Str bonus has just been removed btw, so no more using a lvl 8 spell for increased carrying capacity.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:45

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

MarvinPA wrote:I would go out on a limb and say that when you're in a situation where you're about to die and you can't use your only source of healing because of a spell you have active, and all the advice on how to survive the situation involves "cancel that spell that you have active so that you can actually heal", then that spell is probably at least tangentially related to your imminent death.

Of course alternately you could ignore the advice of all the really good players who are trying to help you, and die again next game by using such a spell in a place where it has no effects other than all the incredibly bad ones.


Alternatively it can teach a player to cancel (or just not use) lichform when there are no torment capable monsters, you don't care about mutations any more (you really don't when you are ascending), you see 2 OoFs, you don't have Wand of Heal Wounds but you have potions of Heal Wounds.

Or you can revert the situation - what would you do if Orb spawned 2 Ice Fiends? Lichform would be extremely useful in this case.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:48

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

in tough spots

For future reference, you should consider the entirety of Zot:5 a tough spot. Especially since at this point in the game, you no longer have to worry about saving resources for later.

Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:51

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

You can't "use staff of energy to channel mana".

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 16:07

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

You can in trunk. Energy and channeling were merged.

Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 16:11

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Ohh(and I thought, that something was strange here). But why?.. I mean, I though the idea was that it provides nutritional energy. Then it's perfectly reasonable to use it with something like cboe.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 16:28

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Now it does both, Staff of energy even when it was "no food costs for spells" wasn't used much, and staff of channeling was/is a pretty small gain and only used as a swap when needed, taking both the constant effect and the evocable one and putting them in one item made it closer to being on par with the elemental staves. (Now if they'd only give it an attack evocation so it could be used as a decent beat-stick)
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 20:45

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

mikee wrote:
whale wrote:Care to expand on this? I'd really appreciate some feedback. I'm guessing my god choice, no heal wand (I was unlucky with this one, didn't find it even in zigs and from acq).

No, those are perfectly reasonable. It's mostly item and spell choices. Your weapon and rings are ones that should be not be in your inventory, not to mention equipped in zot:5 while about to die. Staff of fire/conj, this: H - the ring "Croufiam" {EV+4 Dex+4 Int+4}, this: n - the ring "Nitur" {Hunger- rF+ Int+3} are much better choices. At first glance, amulet of the four winds is a good choice, but this is only because you are in lich form, which you obviously should not be. You have no melee weapon whatsoever and no weapon skill, so I suppose A: when this character has no mp it just dies and B: this character runs out of mp faster than usual because it only uses spells to fight. You could also have been carrying a distortion weapon to use as a desperate measure for escaping.

Spells: these spells are more or less useless for you at this point in the game: magic dart, force lance, passage of golubria, lrd, iood, phase shift. Some spells you should have considered instead: swiftness, rmsl, blink, sublimation of blood, cure poison, regen, dig, borg, ddoor.


You're right, my setup is sloppy, but the reason is that the game got piss-easy after about Vaults and I just didn't bother optimizing. During the entire post-game I got the low-hp warning maybe once, and that's without heal wand and pots.

Lichform + new energy staff is free infinite mana since you don't care about hunger (and there's no stat drain or confuse like from cboe or wucad mu). I never have 0mp, since I'm constantly channeling whenever I get a free turn and in a usual fight I never get closer to hostiles than two tiles. Even if I get into situation where I'm in melee range and there's no way to run, I spend 3-5 turns, pressing "v" and then LCS to the face (instead of risky meleeing which also requires xp investment). Also you can keep haste up as long as you like since you don't much care for Contam.

If push comes to shove and there's an absolute critical situation (like the starting post one, which I created through no less than 40 turns of utterly dumb actions, and I still could have escaped at any point until now) I use the very powerful new evocables. Phial of floods plus fire storm does wonders and gets me plenty of free time to channel at my leisure.

Blades Runner

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:09

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Siegurt wrote:Now it does both, Staff of energy even when it was "no food costs for spells" wasn't used much, and staff of channeling was/is a pretty small gain and only used as a swap when needed, taking both the constant effect and the evocable one and putting them in one item made it closer to being on par with the elemental staves. (Now if they'd only give it an attack evocation so it could be used as a decent beat-stick)


It should totally drain your MP to add plain damage, like the Skald's new Infusion spell.
Wins: DsWz(6), DDNe(4), HuIE(5), HuFE(4), MiBe(3)

Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:11

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

I think that DECj doen't need melee and should even be in the melee range, but they say that blue names know better and one of them from above has a different opinion from mine. Btw, I think cboe(+ staff of energy) is safer than wucad, as you get like 10% (not sure what is it at 27 evo) of failure and it's rarely severe, while with wucad it's 25% after a success, which is insane. And even better is to have them all as you can quickly replenish your mana with wucad in case of full mana drain. You might want to try the combination.(I haven't as I haven't had wucad while being a mage)

Igxfl, you sure?.. I think mages with a staff of energy have better options for that mana.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:15

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

All hail new evocables I survived! And it was quite something.
So it went like this:
I use fog and get wimpy one-tile circle of fog around me. The OoFs see me, but don't blast me to bits, one used mut or smth, the other moved closer.
I use phial of floods on the closest OoF, get my shallow water and three elems. And that OoF shoots something firey and obscures both himself and the other OoF from me in steam clouds.
I start tele, then my lichform falls off. I quaff heal then proceed using summoning (get a crowd of draconians), second phial of floods, the fan and keep quaffing curing while trying to use draconians for cover. I get damaged some, but not critically so. Somewhere in this chaos one of the OoFs gets killed.
Finally my tele kicks in. I get ported into the same damn room right in the middle of it, AND at the same turn a bunch of demons show up in the room due to orbrun effects.
Luckily there's a lot of them, and someone is breaking LOF of OoF. Less lucky there's an executioner among the demons.
I use another tele, refresh haste and backpedal away from OoF and exec. It gets me down to about 50hp when I get teleported right near the central stairs.

Then I just equip wucad mu, get my mana up, rest till full health while annihilating some demons coming my way and proceed to hastily ascend.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:37

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Awesome! Glad for you. I don't know what any of this is about (im new) but ive been watching this thread with interest to see if you survived. Congrats! Was it your first 15 runer?

Whats an OoF? LOF?
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Zot Zealot

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:41

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

Yeehah!
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:42

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

MarvinPA wrote:I would go out on a limb and say that when you're in a situation where you're about to die and you can't use your only source of healing because of a spell you have active, and all the advice on how to survive the situation involves "cancel that spell that you have active so that you can actually heal", then that spell is probably at least tangentially related to your imminent death.

Of course alternately you could ignore the advice of all the really good players who are trying to help you, and die again next game by using such a spell in a place where it has no effects other than all the incredibly bad ones.


I'm always thankful for advice (that bit about 1,5 turns for changing a form was really helpful, thanks), I just didn't suffer from lichform at all during the whole previous game. To actually get into a situation, in which lichform prevented me from using my only source of healing I had to:
Apport the orb a couple times while it was screaming,
Run from an OoF, while it was getting an occasional shot at me for about 15-20 turns while at maybe 60% hp and 30% mp,
Encounter a second OoF right in front of me,
Run around the second OoF while both OoFs were firing away at me,
Fail with a cBlink.
At any point of this whole thing I had resources to tele or block LOS.

Now I think you would agree that my actions were right there with tabbing through first levels on an unarmed OpWz in terms of unprofessionality. I know these guys are usually giving great advice, I'm not trying to be ungrateful and god forbid I set a bad example of doing silly things. It's just I had to try so damn hard to create a problem that I just dunno. Maybe I'm just playing a really easy combo?

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:45

Re: Rescue this DECj on the orb run

delarado wrote:Awesome! Glad for you. I don't know what any of this is about (im new) but ive been watching this thread with interest to see if you survived. Congrats! Was it your first 15 runer?

Whats an OoF? LOF?


Thanx. Yeah, first time. My previous high-score was 7-rune with MiFi of TSO, which means I'm quite a newbie. :D
OoF = Orb of Fire.
LOF/S = Line of Fire / Sight.
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