remove hydras from the game

[delarado]

wtf am i supposed to do when an 8 headed hydra appears. I cant run, it kills my "brother in arm" in what seems like 1 shot (3 activations in a row), it resists everything I throw at it (Confusion, slow) "Accidentallys my entire HP" in one(8) shots, blinking 3 times blinks me directly next to it (but on the other side) and going invisible doesn't seem to help me (it kills me anyway)

How the f* are you supposed to deal with these things. So god damn annoyed, I really liked this character, i had EASY hunger control, great mutations, and good gear. Nothing was giving me any trouble until a stupid 8 headed hydra shows up.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-921-g3f17ee7 (console) character file.

10469 ffs the Brawler (level 11, -3/98 HPs)
             Began as a Troll Berserker on July 9, 2013.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Slain by an eight-headed hydra (9 damage)
             ... on Level 11 of the Dungeon on July 10, 2013.
             The game lasted 01:41:47 (10946 turns).

ffs the Brawler (Troll Berserker)                  Turns: 10946, Time: 01:41:47

HP  -3/98        AC 15     Str 27      XL: 11   Next: 29%
MP   3/3         EV 11     Int  3      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 555         SH  0     Dex 10      Spells:  0 memorised, 10 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +     - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   b - +1 animal skin
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (shield restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   (gloves unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   K - amulet of the gourmand
Gourmand  : +                        p - ring of sustenance
                                     v - +5 ring of protection

@: invisible, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, see invisible, blink 1, fast metabolism 3,
gourmand, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +5, Int -1, Dex -1
a: Blink, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce
Religion


You were on level 11 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 12 of its levels.

You also visited: Ossuary.

You collected 557 gold pieces.
You spent 22 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - a +1,+1 whip of electrocution
 r - a +0,+3 anti-magic bardiche
 F - a +1,+0 bow of frost
 O - a +1,+1 orcish dagger of draining
Missiles
 k - 11 bolts of penetration
 o - 22 stones
 q - 6 javelins of returning (quivered)
Armour
 b - a +1 animal skin (worn)
 A - a +0 robe
Magical devices
 c - a wand of slowing (2)
 l - a wand of flame (11)
 m - a wand of confusion (4)
 s - a wand of random effects (23)
 u - a wand of draining (3)
 C - a wand of flame (9)
 H - a wand of disintegration (14) {unknown}
Comestibles
 a - 4 meat rations
 f - 2 bread rations
 E - a snozzcumber
 I - 4 rotting chunks of hill giant flesh
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 j - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 t - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 x - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II
 y - a scroll of remove curse
 D - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I

 G - a scroll of amnesia {unknown}
 N - 2 scrolls of curse weapon {unknown}
Jewellery
 i - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 p - a ring of sustenance (right claw)
 v - a +5 ring of protection (left claw)
 K - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Potions
 e - a potion of restore abilities
 h - a potion of brilliance
 n - 8 potions of curing
 z - a potion of heal wounds
 B - a potion of paralysis {unknown}
 J - a potion of agility {unknown}
 L - a potion of cure mutation
 M - 2 potions of speed {unknown}
 P - a potion of berserk rage {unknown}


   Skills:
 - Level 2.4 Fighting
 - Level 5.7 Dodging
 * Level 16.8 Unarmed Combat


You had 10 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/27)            Temple (0/1) D:4             Orc (0/4) D:9
   Lair (0/8) D:8         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Kikubaaqudgha
Okawaru
Trog
Xom

Shops:
D:6: (  D:7: =  D:9: +  D:10: ?


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).
You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1).
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You can translocate small distances at will.
You are dopey (Int -1).


Message History

The eight-headed hydra bites you but does no damage.
The eight-headed hydra misses you.
Use which ability? (? or * to list)
You blink. You feel slightly more hungry. The adder bites you but does no damage.
The eight-headed hydra bites you but does no damage.
The eight-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra misses you. The eight-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra closely misses you.

Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You fade into invisibility!
The adder closely misses you. The adder barely misses you.
The eight-headed hydra barely misses you.
The eight-headed hydra bites you!
You die...

     #.#   #.#.#
######.#####.#.#####....
........................
######.#####.#.#####.##.
 ##.)..........#...
 #......)...##)#.#######....
 #..........##...#..%....#
...###########.###.#####.#
.     #.......)#§..#
      #.......)#S###
      #........D@#
      ####+###.###
             #.#
             #.#
             ...
             ...
            ..(.
            .....
             ...
         #.#
########..


You could see an eight-headed hydra and an adder.

Vanquished Creatures

  The ghost of Timir the Grappler, a powerful TrBe of Trog (D:10)
  A necromancer (D:9)
  Pikel (D:8)
  2 hill giants
  4 stone golems
  A hill giant zombie (D:9)
  A queen bee (shapeshifter) (D:11)
  A hill giant skeleton (D:10)
  Eustachio (D:4)
  A wyvern (D:10)
  A yak (D:8)
  A hippogriff (D:8)
  A hungry ghost (D:10)
  A manticore (D:8)
  Menkaure (D:4)
  4 ice beasts
  9 orc warriors
  A yellow wasp (D:8)
  2 sky beasts
  2 phantoms
  3 ogres
  A manticore skeleton (D:10)
  A cyclops skeleton (D:11)
  2 centaurs (D:8)
  2 slaves
  A crocodile (D:8)
  Sigmund (D:4)
  A big kobold (D:9)
  A giant frog zombie (D:6)
  A two-headed ogre zombie (D:10)
  6 giant frogs
  Blork the orc (D:9)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:8)
  5 wights (D:9)
  2 grizzly bear simulacra (D:9)
  2 killer bee zombies (D:10)
  3 shadows
  6 crimson imps
  A human skeleton (D:9)
  8 orc priests
  2 big kobold skeletons (D:7)
  2 goliath beetles
  5 hounds
  4 iguanas
  6 scorpions
  A worker ant zombie (D:5)
  10 orc wizards
  4 worker ants
  2 hound simulacra (D:9)
  Ijyb (D:5)
  5 jellies
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:5)
  3 mummies (Ossuary)
  3 gnolls (D:3)
  3 green rats
  8 adders
  A scorpion zombie (D:7)
  2 adder skeletons (D:7)
  5 adder zombies (Ossuary)
  A giant centipede (D:9)
  2 giant mites
  8 worms
  2 sheep simulacra (D:9)
  A bat zombie (D:7)
  2 giant eyeballs
  A gnoll zombie (Ossuary)
  7 giant geckos
  36 orcs
  6 giant cockroaches
  9 goblins
  A grey rat (D:4)
  17 hobgoblins
  8 jackals
  20 kobolds
  4 oozes
  3 quokkas
  4 training dummies (D:7)
  A ball python (D:1)

  20 bats
  2 giant gecko skeletons
  3 giant newts
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  3 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  A kobold skeleton (D:5)
  3 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  2 orc skeletons
  A quokka skeleton (D:9)
  2 quokka zombies (Ossuary)
  16 rats
  3 rat simulacra (D:9)
  3 rat zombies
  3 ballistomycetes (D:8)
351 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Grinder (D:4)
  2 ogres
  A hound (D:11)
  An orc priest (D:11)
  A jelly (D:11)
  An orc (D:11)
7 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A troll (D:11)
  A two-headed ogre (D:11)
  A slave (D:9)
  An orc warrior (D:9)
  A worker ant (D:9)
  A sheep simulacrum (D:9)
  2 orcs (D:9)
  A jackal (D:2)
  A giant newt (D:7)
  A giant spore (D:8)
  3 kobolds (D:11)
  A rat (D:5)
  2 fungi (D:8)
17 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 375 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | ffs, the Troll Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 23/23 MP: 0/0
   104 | D:1      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
   204 | D:2      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 31/31 MP: 0/0
   386 | D:1      | Acquired Trog's second power
   738 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 37/37 MP: 1/1
  1233 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  1306 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 36/46 MP: 1/1
  1942 | D:3      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  1947 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/53 MP: 1/1
  1992 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  2101 | D:3      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  2197 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  2230 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  2314 | D:4      | Killed Sigmund
  2359 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 54/61 MP: 2/2
  2544 | D:3      | Acquired Trog's third power
  2699 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  2725 | D:5      | Noticed Ijyb
  2738 | D:5      | Killed Ijyb
  2817 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2919 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  2927 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  3217 | Ossuary  | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  3479 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 61/68 MP: 2/2
  3492 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  3515 | D:4      | Killed Eustachio
  3515 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  3634 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3693 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3695 | D:4      | Noticed Grinder
  3695 | D:4      | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns
  3701 | D:4      | Killed Grinder
  3701 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3703 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  3796 | D:5      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  3817 | D:5      | Noticed Menkaure
  3838 | D:4      | Killed Menkaure
  3840 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  3840 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 13/76 MP: 2/2
  4755 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1)
  4755 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You are dopey (Int -1). [potion of mutation]
  4755 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You can translocate small distances at will. [potion of mutatio
  4837 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You have supernaturally acute eyesight. [potion of beneficial m
  4884 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  4962 | D:6      | Found Smugie Tiov's Antique Weapon Shop.
  5745 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 83/83 MP: 3/3
  5756 | D:7      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  5817 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  5980 | D:7      | Found Phehu's Jewellery Shoppe.
  6110 | D:7      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  6647 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
  6894 | D:8      | Paralysed by a yellow wasp for 1 turns
  7104 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  7502 | D:9      | Noticed Pikel
  7533 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
  7533 | D:8      | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
  7586 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 86/92 MP: 3/3
  7744 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  7744 | D:10     | Noticed a stone golem
  7744 | D:10     | Noticed a stone golem
  7744 | D:10     | Noticed a stone golem
  7744 | D:10     | Noticed a stone golem
  7935 | D:8      | Killed a stone golem
  7935 | D:8      | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
  8038 | D:8      | Killed a stone golem
  8208 | D:9      | Killed a stone golem
  8291 | D:9      | Killed a stone golem
  8291 | D:9      | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat
  8880 | D:9      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8885 | D:9      | Found Ihiupt's Book Boutique.
  8896 | D:9      | Noticed Blork the orc
  8906 | D:9      | Killed Blork the orc
  9243 | D:9      | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
  9279 | D:9      | Noticed a necromancer
  9284 | D:9      | Killed a necromancer
  9420 | D:9      | Received a gift from Trog
  9438 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  9625 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 89/98 MP: 3/3
  9788 | D:10     | Reached XP level 10. HP: 92/92 MP: 2/3
 10085 | D:10     | Found Jaen's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 10128 | D:10     | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 10324 | D:10     | Noticed Timir's ghost (powerful TrBe)
 10341 | D:10     | Killed Timir's ghost
 10341 | D:10     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 10341 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 50/98 MP: 3/3
 10454 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 10479 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 10670 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 10683 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 10924 | D:11     | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 10946 | D:11     | Slain by an eight-headed hydra
Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   115 |   204 |   365 |   385 ||  1069
Throw: Javelin           |       |    32 |     6 |       ||    38
       Dagger            |       |     6 |       |       ||     6
       Stone             |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
Invok: Berserk           |       |     3 |     3 |     4 ||    10
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |     1 |     4 ||     5
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Abil: Blink             |       |       |     1 |     3 ||     4
Evoke: Wand              |       |     2 |     9 |     2 ||    13
  Use: Potion            |     1 |     2 |     3 |     1 ||     7
       Scroll            |     3 |    13 |     5 |     4 ||    25
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     1 |       |       ||     1


[mikee]

This thread title makes me worry that I'm wasting my time. Oh well. Here is a little bit of advice that some people might not know: to kill a hydra with a bia (even a very weak one), it is much easier when the hydra is chasing you and your bia is chasing the hydra. Make sure that, if necessary, you move so that the hydra has a direct path to you so that it will be trying to kill you and not your whatever it is.

[delarado]

Your not wasting your time, I know they aren't going to remove hydra's, I'm just so filled with RAAAAGGGEEE!!!

Thanks for the tip... I'll try that next time before I SMASH MY SCREEN AND THIS STUPID GAME!!!!

In the above we were in a corridor and I was trying to put my BIA between me and the hydra, probably why it was dying so quickly!!

[reaver]

The biggest thing you didn't do was read a scroll of teleport and then walk away. Hydras move at the same speed you do, so this would have ensured your survival. Obviously, you would need to have the foresight to see the hydra was a major threat, but that's part of the game.

According to the message log, you weren't actually one-shotted. You still had options.

Going invisible in melee range is generally a waste of a turn, particularly on a character as unstealthy as yours. The monster AI is pretty good at detecting invisible players, so going invisible is something used outside or more to the edge of a monster's LOS. I would have tried to blink once more - just because it didn't help you once doesn't mean that it wouldn't have helped this time.

Once you saw the hydra was resisting confusion and slowing, why didn't you try something not resistible by MR, like draining?

[moocowmoocow]

I don't even fight hydras early game unless I can nuke them at range. Around midgame when you're diving to vaults then hydras are trivially easy to melee. Stair juke and dive, especially if it's 8-headed (5 or less is slightly less risky).

[delarado]

The biggest thing you didn't do was read a scroll of teleport and then walk away. Hydras move at the same speed you do, so this would have ensured your survival. Obviously, you would need to have the foresight to see the hydra was a major threat, but that's part of the game.

According to the message log, you weren't actually one-shotted. You still had options.

Going invisible in melee range is generally a waste of a turn, particularly on a character as unstealthy as yours. The monster AI is pretty good at detecting invisible players, so going invisible is something used outside or more to the edge of a monster's LOS. I would have tried to blink once more - just because it didn't help you once doesn't mean that it wouldn't have helped this time.

Once you saw the hydra was resisting confusion and slowing, why didn't you try something not resistible by MR, like draining?

yes, teleport would have helped immensely. To be honest, I was so convinced my BIA would kill it, I didn't think. Then when my BIA died, I thought "I'll quickly do it again and it'll die quick smart"

When it didnt, I panicked, I cast BIA for a third time, and started blinking. 3 blinks were useless, although I didn't take that much damage. I think then I tried to run, but I had to go around it, thats when I started dying fast. I think I went from about 80hp to about 20 in one move. My exaggeration comes from frustration at the situation

I know hydras are a major threat, but TBH have only died to them twice. The other three times I've seen them, I've cast BIA and they've died without me having to get into melee range even. I've never had success running from Hydra's. Since they are the same speed as me, they cannot kill me; however, I generally run around until something finds me that is faster than me, and then I have to stop to fight it (And the hydra) or die slowly on the run. I just havent managed to shake a hydra off my tail yet!

Thanks for the tip about invisibility, its the first time i've had an invis potion and I thought it'd be a good escape mechanism!!

Honestly, I don't know what draining does, and I don't know what MR is! But I'll look them up now, so thanks for prompting me

[nordetsa]

Draining (to a monster) does damage and lowers their HD. It's basically like any kind of magic bolt. Having a wand of draining early game is good because most enemies don't have rN yet. It works differently to a player though, reducing his skill level as well as doing damage.

Anyway, you had only 3 charges left. That wouldn't have killed an 8-headed hydra.

MR is short term for magic resistance. Monsters with higher MR will more likely to resist certain magic spells such as confuse and banishment.

Hydras are really tough enemies in early game anyway. Running away is usually the best like others have suggested. Since you were a troll, you could've found large rocks to throw. OR even javelins help. Alternatively take them with magic wands (wand of fire, draining, ice, etc.).

[delarado]

Where are these mythical large rocks? Someone has mentioned them to me before, but I've never found any, and I've probably splatted 60 TrBe's now between D8 and D18

[pratamawirya]

Cyclops are a good source of large rocks past D:10 or so. If you have indeed seen places as deep as D:18, then you should have encountered them already.

[yogaFLAME]

I cant run,

wrong

[Silk]

How the f* are you supposed to deal with these things.

Plan A) Run away
Plan B) Blink to gain distance then Run Away
Plan C) Go Berserk and Run away
Plan D) Overwhelm with wand charges/BIA

[Sandman25]

Start as TrHu if you want large rocks and choose Trog in Temple, Tr will surely reach Temple.

Hydra is the worst enemy for fedhasites, Wandering Mushrooms cannot run away and die to hydra really fast. As Be you can at least run away.

[joellercoaster]

TrHu of Elyvilon was probably the most fun cruise through the dungeon I have ever had. Early hydras were hard to pacify, but the starting collection of large rocks did just fine

(Later, getting into boulder duels with various kinds of giant was highly entertaining.)

[delarado]

Start as TrHu if you want large rocks and choose Trog in Temple, Tr will surely reach Temple.

Hydra is the worst enemy for fedhasites, Wandering Mushrooms cannot run away and die to hydra really fast. As Be you can at least run away.

Whats a fedhasite?

Wandering mushroom?

Now I'm really confused!

I think in this game I get too hung up on killing everything I see, and it gets me into trouble!

[nordetsa]

Whats a fedhasite?

Those who follow Fedhas, presumably.

Wandering mushroom?

A monster that you can either encounter or summon as permanent allies (by following Fedhas). As a enemy they don't move when in your sight, but will move outside your vision. Their melee attack can confuse you.

I think in this game I get too hung up on killing everything I see, and it gets me into trouble!

There are some monsters you'd want to leave forever alone. Depends on situations, but for me Mara fits into this category.

[Sandman25]

Sorry for confusion. I learned word "fedhasite" on the forum.
google knows the word too

[battaile]

Should move this to GDD.

[DracheReborn]

Should move this to GDD.

Nah, it's just a disguised plea for help on how to deal with hydras

Strangely, I never had a problem with hydras. Orc priests and centaur packs used to get me all the time though. And I still die fairly regularly to hobgoblins

[delarado]

Thats correct drache, a shrieking cry for help! haha.

Orc priests can be a bit tricky sometimes, for me they are the ones I always think I can kill easily, and most I can, but the odd one somehow leaves me with 10% hp left and wondering what to do next!

Packs of centaurs though...dont get me started. Twice now Ive seen a centaur, walked one more square and four more have appeared. At that point I'm as good as dead, without a scroll of blinking I just cannot survive long enough for anything else to work (thinking about it maybe berserking would give me the speed I need to run away? You def dont have enough turns for a teleport scroll to work!)

[joellercoaster]

walked one more square

If I could offer one piece of advice to reduce your crawl deaths, it would almost certainly be: "when you see something threatening, don't walk one more square".

[DracheReborn]

walked one more square

If I could offer one piece of advice to reduce your crawl deaths, it would almost certainly be: "when you see something threatening, don't walk one more square".

In fact, the best piece of advice I ever got, was to take 1 step back at first sight of an enemy. It's generally sound tactics, plus it makes you pause for a moment and think. Can't underestimate the value of that!

[Sandman25]

walked one more square

If I could offer one piece of advice to reduce your crawl deaths, it would almost certainly be: "when you see something threatening, don't walk one more square".

In fact, the best piece of advice I ever got, was to take 1 step back at first sight of an enemy. It's generally sound tactics, plus it makes you pause for a moment and think. Can't underestimate the value of that!

Somewhere I have read that player should remove his/her hands from keyboard as soon as a dangerous monster comes into view, that gives more time to think

[tasonir]

Where are these mythical large rocks? Someone has mentioned them to me before, but I've never found any, and I've probably splatted 60 TrBe's now between D8 and D18

They are super common in main dungeon around D:11 - d:14. You probably don't want to go all the way to d:14 before lair, as nasty things like centaur warriors start to become common. You can try poking around 11/12 for large rocks though, but as your morgue shows, it's possible to get hydras on d:11 also.

Pick a troll hunter, start with 5 large rocks, imho. I've won 2 of them. You'll get more large rocks later on, but having some at the start helps. You start with enough throwing that you don't need to train it anymore, turn it off and train unarmed like any other troll. You'll have to find a trog altar yourself, but that's about the only downside.

[kenmtraveller]

Do people really use Trog with unarmed troll fighters? His gifts won't help you; he doesn't give large rocks (does he?), BIA doesn't really seem like a good top tier ability. I would think some other god (nemelex maybe?) would be preferable.

Ken

[mopl]

How the f* are you supposed to deal with these things.

Plan A) Run away
Plan B) Blink to gain distance then Run Away
Plan C) Go Berserk and Run away
Plan D) Overwhelm with wand charges/BIA

I'm a little sceptical about plan C...
Being slowed down can be fatal if you didn't run far enough (stairs for example)

[BlackSheep]

Running away while berserking will end your berserk status in two turns, leave you slowed, and possibly cause you to faint. Berserk is not an escape tool.

Trog will gift large rocks and fancy javelins to trolls that train Throwing high enough. Beyond that, at-will berserk is handy, Trog's Hand is good when going up against a spellcaster with debuffs, and Brothers In Arms is a great ability, particularly at high piety. Discounting Trog just because you won't make use of his weapon gifts is silly.

[tasonir]

While not as relevant to trolls, trog is actually at his strongest when you can't recieve any gifts, as a felid. With nothing to automatically bring down your piety you can store up much more piety than a normal trog user, and thus always get the top tier of summons, and easily summon 3-4 of them without really hurting your piety. And that clears literally any fight in a 3 rune game.

I'd keep your throwing under 8 on a troll and just ignore the weapons. Trog's abilities are stronger than his gifts.

[battaile]

Nah, it's just a disguised plea for help on how to deal with hydras

No way.

[Siegurt]

Do people really use Trog with unarmed troll fighters? His gifts won't help you; he doesn't give large rocks (does he?), BIA doesn't really seem like a good top tier ability. I would think some other god (nemelex maybe?) would be preferable.

Ken

He can gift large rocks (or javelins which are pretty decent too) if you have >8 throwing, (He can also gift darts, small rocks, nets, and needles if also have a blowgun) but as Tasonir points out, there's not much point in getting such gifts, you're probably better without them.

BIA does a TON of damage, the brothers don't tank very well late game, but they can do heavy damage to just about anything. What can do more damage than a berserking troll? TWO berserking trolls! What can do more damage than that? (Three berserking trolls, well you get the idea) And what's more they don't take any spell points or training to use, just piety.

[Psieye]

Hydra is the worst enemy for fedhasites, Wandering Mushrooms cannot run away and die to hydra really fast. As Be you can at least run away.

A lot of Fedhasites chose him for the one-way ranged cover deal - you can shoot through plants/fungi, enemies can't. I kicked myself when I finally realised this also applies to wandering mushrooms. Point being: ranged Fedhasites will kill the hydra before it can melee wandering mushrooms (especially if 'corpse explosions' are arranged).

[crate]

also mushrooms will just kill the hydra for you because they are OP

[DeathKnyte]

Remove hydras from the game?
No.
In fact, put in more hydras.
I am concerned that there aren't enough hydras.
How come there aren't any hydras in the Realm of Zot, Lower Hells, Pendemonium, or Slime Pits?
Is it perhaps because they have a difficult time in locating mates to pair with?
Or because players kill them too easily in the upper levels of the dungeon - that must be the reason!

I think they should be added to the "endangered monster species list" of the game!

[XuaXua]

Where are the demo-hydrae?

[mumra]

Demi-hydra.

Have up to 13.5 heads.

[Siegurt]

Is the Lernean Hydra a dodecahydra?

[Sandman25]

Hydra is the worst enemy for fedhasites, Wandering Mushrooms cannot run away and die to hydra really fast. As Be you can at least run away.

A lot of Fedhasites chose him for the one-way ranged cover deal - you can shoot through plants/fungi, enemies can't. I kicked myself when I finally realised this also applies to wandering mushrooms. Point being: ranged Fedhasites will kill the hydra before it can melee wandering mushrooms (especially if 'corpse explosions' are arranged).

I was a MfIE trying to use Fedhas for stabbing with mushrooms, increased EV because of Rain and shooting Bolt of Ice through plants/mushrooms. Bolt of Ice was not available yet

[Sandman25]

also mushrooms will just kill the hydra for you because they are OP

It didn't happen in my game. While I was fighting another monster who prevented mushrooms from moving, a Hydra killed all 4 my mushrooms in 2 or 3 turns. I even didn't know about the hydra before it killed 2 mushrooms. It wasn't even wounded

[tcjsavannah]

Once you take care of hydrae as a TrBe, try taking on a few as a FeBe.

[rebthor]

Remove hydras from the game?
No.
In fact, put in more hydras.
I am concerned that there aren't enough hydras.
How come there aren't any hydras in the Realm of Zot, Lower Hells, Pendemonium, or Slime Pits?
Is it perhaps because they have a difficult time in locating mates to pair with?
Or because players kill them too easily in the upper levels of the dungeon - that must be the reason!

I think they should be added to the "endangered monster species list" of the game!

You may want to play this then.

[Helmschank]

You have a nice whip of electrocution. Since using unarmed against hydras creates more heads, instead equip that whip. Even with no maces skill, you can go berserk and kill that hydra because you do so much damage when berserk.

It's a little risky, but you definitely can pull it off. If you don't kill the hydra before berserk wears off, then you can pop teleports, etc.

But live on the edge...Trog loves it!

[mopl]

You have a nice whip of electrocution. Since using unarmed against hydras creates more heads, instead equip that whip...

Too bad that he is dead

Can someone confirm that UC creates more heads... I don't think so and believe it does only if you have blade hands...

[BlackSheep]

Troll claws do.

[Psieye]

also mushrooms will just kill the hydra for you because they are OP

It didn't happen in my game. While I was fighting another monster who prevented mushrooms from moving, a Hydra killed all 4 my mushrooms in 2 or 3 turns. I even didn't know about the hydra before it killed 2 mushrooms. It wasn't even wounded

At Lair, I like walking around with 8~9 mushrooms.

Troll claws do.

Thus the legend of the UC troll who killed a hydra with a pizza - clumsily bashing with a non-weapon item at least prevents heads being severed.

[Klown]

Which weapons don't make more heads?

[Sandman25]

At Lair, I like walking around with 8~9 mushrooms.

I tried this approach too and ended up being underdeveloped because too many kills were taken by the allies. I am just a too bad player with permanent allies. Still learning how to do it properly.

[joellercoaster]

Is the Lernean Hydra a dodecahydra?

Get.

Out.

[nicolae]

Is the Lernean Hydra a dodecahydra?

Get.

Out.

yeah, 'round these parts we don't cotton to miscountin' the sides of platonic solids *hocks into spitoon, thumbs holster on belt*

[Siegurt]

Well, you try to pronounce icosikaiheptahydra...

[DeathKnyte]

Which weapons don't make more heads?

Uhmmm...

Dagger, quick blade, anything in the Maces & Flails category, spear, trident, demon trident, trishula, staff, quarterstaff, all thrown and/or fired.

Did I miss any?