First Spellcaster?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 15th July 2013, 22:56

Re: First Spellcaster?

Psieye wrote:It's a question of where they're splatting. Do "new players" splat before they live long enough for aptitudes to even matter?

It's my impression that they do, and why I would recommend a Dr.
Psieye wrote:Do they know caster tactics to take advantage of that earlier rise to power with good aptitudes?

I think once they do, they aren't a "new player" so much as a "journeyman" Once you've gotten past the "I splat my spellcasters in D:1-5 every time" to "I usually get to the lair and die" is when you should branch out to races with more offensive spell-aptitudes, to learn how to take advantage of those higher aptitudes.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 01:25

Re: First Spellcaster?

well another thing is that I personally strongly dislike recommending characters that might get a player into habits that don't exactly work with most other characters
recommending human or draconian has no risk of that
recommending deep elf does
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Zot Zealot

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:31

Re: First Spellcaster?

Hmm, that's a pretty interesting point.

I had often thought that the first key realisation when you're starting out is that munchkinism and minmaxing are good. Pick one strategy, play it to the hilt. Hence DE.

But I am not a good player. Go with crate.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 12:40

Re: First Spellcaster?

joellercoaster wrote:munchkinism and minmaxing are good.


Sorry, what? :)

What are these "bad habits" you speak of?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:25

Re: First Spellcaster?

joellercoaster wrote:I had often thought that the first key realisation when you're starting out is that munchkinism and minmaxing are good. Pick one strategy, play it to the hilt. Hence DE.

This is an extension of the general advice to an illogical conclusion. Specialize first doesn't mean specialize forever. Once you've got your killing tools online, bolstering defenses and developing alternate killing methods are both very important.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 15:34

Re: First Spellcaster?

delarado wrote:What are these "bad habits" you speak of?

If this is directed at me....

I will give a clearer example since this is one I see more commonly. A lot of people learn to play crawl by playing MiBe. The thing about MiBe is that it is outrageously strong for the entire game compared to almost all other characters in crawl. This leads to players not getting punished for poor tactics, like charging at an orc pack, nearly often enough. In fact MiBe is so strong that it can charge at orc packs early on and sometimes win! This may mislead a player into thinking that that kind of play actually works.

If that player had instead learned with HuFi, then it would be clear that charging at orc packs does not work; it will not be successful with HuFi.

DEFE is less obviously powerful than MiBe, but it is very lopsided. You will get spells much quicker than other characters, and they will be more powerful. You may in fact run in to the same thing I just described, where you are able to succeed by just firing away at enemies even when this is a bad idea.

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DracheReborn, joellercoaster

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:18

Re: First Spellcaster?

It's a valid stance to take. I happen to be an advocate of learning crawl with a MiBe, as I believe this is a game that's easy for people to drop from lack of success. Yes this means I'm essentially advocating new players learn the game twice - once with bad habits and get an 'easy' win (which will still take a lot of learning to pull off), and then learn it again with a more ordinary character. A detour on the path to getting good for the sake of earlier elation - a trade off I consider worthwhile if the alternative is for players to drop out early.

Dis Charger

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Post Tuesday, 16th July 2013, 21:36

Re: First Spellcaster?

I think reforming habbits is not so hard, though. Btw it have taken me a year or something to complete my first 15-rune'er with a DEWz, though I consider it to be quite an easy class to play. I thought I'd become insane... Even though it's my fault that I died in elf:3 every time.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 4th August 2013, 02:37

Re: First Spellcaster?

After reading the most of this thread, it seems like there is one big misconception: One race is better than the other.

Now, its not doubt that DE's are the "easiest" casters to start out with, but that doesn't make them "better" than Dr's or Mu's. But we all need to keep in mind that there is no "best" race. Each race has good qualities and bad ones:

DE:
++easily the best magic aptitude.
+can use elven ring mail with virtually 0 downside
-easily the most fragile

Dr:
+good AC without any need for armour
+average magic aptitude for the most part, and a chance of a significant bonus at level 7(plus a breath weapon which can work wonders)
+good HP and fighting aptitudes
-have difficulty getting down spell hunger due to below average spellcasting.

Mu:
++Hungerless casting
++Torment, poison, negative energy, and cold resistance
--Terrible aptitudes, just in general

Na:
++spit poison that can be turned into poison breath, constriction is good for hybrids, innate poison resistance, acute vision, and they are large(good for wielding shields)
+good AC, and naga bardings are awesome
+average aptitude for magic, and +3 for poison(poison arrow ftw)
-slow speeds are tough to work with
-other than poison, they have no specialization


Those are just a few examples; Ds, HE, Op, the list goes on. They all have good qualities, you just need to know how to exploit them. If you want to succeed in this game, it takes a lot of trial and error, just keep going at it and you will eventually find something that works for you.
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Sunday, 4th August 2013, 16:35

Re: First Spellcaster?

Everyone always forgets about the poor Tengu :(
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 4th August 2013, 17:54

Re: First Spellcaster?

EvilAshe wrote:Everyone always forgets about the poor Tengu :(


Tengus were actually my first succesful FE run, but I haven't used them in forever! XD
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.
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