Lair: Ending?

[delarado]

Guys,

I've just cleared level 8 of the lair, and I'm a little confused. I've been reading here:

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Lair

It says about how you'll get an "ending". I don't seem to of? I just killed everything on the lower level. There was 3 death yaks (And actually 6 on Lair:7) and everything else was pretty easy.

I found an entrance to the slime pits on Lair:8 but no mythical ending or special treasure (Except some weird whip that makes you fly)

Am I missing something? Under the Lair:8 Vaults section of the wiki it implies I will get one of a few different things as an "ending" and I didn't get anything of the sort, just a standard floor that had an entrance to the slime pits?


Also, aside from that, what now? Spiders nest, shoals or slime pits? Thanks!

[rchandra]

Some of the endings are pretty normal-looking.

Don't trust the wiki.

and probably more dungeon and orcish mines before any of those branches - usually do spider/shoals whenever everything else is too hard or after d:26/d:27, and slime after that (or never).

[pubby]

The ending is done with vaults: usually about 1/4 of the map will be a pre-designed layout with different monsters and one or two decent items. It's either 1 largish vault, or two smaller vaults. The rest of the map will look normal.

Endings I can remember are a spriggan forest, a hell forest, a lake with an island, a room with dire elephants, a tunnel with catoblepae and death yaks, a tunnel with worms, a tunnel with dogs, and a cave with bears.

Also, aside from that, what now? Spiders nest, shoals or slime pits? Thanks!

Go do more of dungeon and mines. There's rarely a point in doing slime until after you've XL 27.

[battaile]

Also the whole anaconda/dire-elephant ending goes pretty much unnoticed if you don't hack through some plants at the vault entrance.

[delarado]

Found the ending and got killed by a dire elephant.

[nordetsa]

Should be careful with killing that anaconda-often the loots inside aren't that worth to risk it. What level/class were you when you got killed?

[delarado]

I'm not sure on level - maybe 18 or so? My unarmed combat just hit 18, I was a troll berserker. I isolated the anaconda and killed it, then got the two dire elephants into a corridor. Killed the first one in about 5 or 6 hits and lost 20hp. The next one though knocked 30hp off me a hit probably for the next 3 turns. Basically the first one was a piece of cake and the second one just got lucky on the hits.

I quaffed a potion of curing and realised how useless it is for healing, so i then I tried to quaff a potion of speed to run but it killed me as I did it

I'll post the morgue file tomorrow night. I probably had a scroll of fear or blinking or something that I didn't think about using because I'm an idiot like that. So annoyed! First time I've ever got to the lair as well, and almost completed it save for one stupid mistake.

[dirtywick]

The ending is done with vaults: usually about 1/4 of the map will be a pre-designed layout with different monsters and one or two decent items. It's either 1 largish vault, or two smaller vaults. The rest of the map will look normal.

Endings I can remember are a spriggan forest, a hell forest, a lake with an island, a room with dire elephants, a tunnel with catoblepae and death yaks, a tunnel with worms, a tunnel with dogs, and a cave with bears.

Also, aside from that, what now? Spiders nest, shoals or slime pits? Thanks!

Go do more of dungeon and mines. There's rarely a point in doing slime until after you've XL 27.

I think there's also a forest vault with a river full of dragons and drakes.

[prozacelf]

There is also the "beastmaster" vault with the deep troll and lindwurm and a bunch of bears/wolves or death yaks/catoblepae.....

[delarado]

How do you pull up the morgue file on OSX? Where is it stored? I'm just copying and pasting out of the console high score board as i cant seem to find any files stored by crawl...

  Code:


 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-921-g3f17ee7 (console) character file.

37198 IWINIT the Brawler (level 13, -6/122 HPs)
             Began as a Troll Berserker on July 3, 2013.
             Was the Champion of Trog.
             Mangled by a dire elephant (23 damage)
             ... on Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts on July 6, 2013.
             The game lasted 02:58:59 (18863 turns).

IWINIT the Brawler (Troll Berserker)               Turns: 18863, Time: 02:58:59

HP  -6/122       AC 12     Str 28      XL: 13   Next: 37%
MP   4/4         EV 12     Int  3      God: Trog [******]
Gold 1217        SH 21     Dex 12 (13) Spells:  0 memorised, 12 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .     - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   r - +1 robe {rN+}
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   i - -1 shield
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   M - +2 wizard hat
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   f - +0 cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   (gloves unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   l - amulet of faith
Gourmand  : +                        d - ring of protection from fire
                                     m - +3 ring of protection

@: hasted, very quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2,
saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +1
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You were on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.


You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 17 of its levels.

You collected 1197 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - a cursed -3 blowgun
 h - a -1,-3 hammer of holy wrath
 j - a +0,+3 sling of evasion
 s - a +0,+1 hammer of crushing
 t - the +5,+1 whip of Beogh's Displeasure {slash, +Fly rN+ Str+2 Stlth--}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you fly.
   It makes you much less stealthy.
 y - a +1,+4 anti-magic broad axe
 E - a +3,+2 sling of evasion
 J - a +1,+3 dwarven eveningstar of crushing
 S - a +1,+5 anti-magic battleaxe
Armour
 f - a +0 cloak (worn)
 i - a -1 shield (worn)
 r - a +1 robe of positive energy (worn)
 B - a +2 elven robe of cold resistance
 H - a +0 buckler
 M - a +2 wizard hat (worn)
 Y - a +0 elven cloak
Magical devices
 w - a wand of lightning (7) {unknown}
 C - a wand of digging (18)
 T - a wand of polymorph (9)
Comestibles

 a - 5 meat rations
 u - 6 honeycombs
 G - 2 rotting chunks of elephant flesh
 P - a royal jelly
 Q - 4 bread rations
Scrolls
 o - a scroll of teleportation
 p - a scroll of noise
 v - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 z - a scroll of summoning
 F - 2 scrolls of identify
 N - a scroll of curse weapon
Jewellery
 b - an uncursed ring of flight
 d - a ring of protection from fire (right claw)
 k - an uncursed ring of hunger {unknown}
 l - an amulet of faith (around neck)
 m - a +3 ring of protection (left claw)
 n - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 x - an uncursed ring of ice
 R - an uncursed ring of protection from magic {unknown}
 U - a +2 ring of strength
Potions
 e - 3 potions of restore abilities
 g - a potion of porridge {unknown}
 q - a potion of speed
 A - a potion of cure mutation {unknown}
 D - a potion of flight
 K - a potion of might {unknown}
 O - 2 potions of curing
Miscellaneous
 L - a lantern of shadows


   Skills:

 + Level 6.7 Fighting
 + Level 10.7 Maces & Flails
 + Level 6.8 Dodging
 + Level 6.2 Shields
 + Level 2.2 Traps
 + Level 17.0 Unarmed Combat


You had 12 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/27)             Temple (0/1) D:5             Orc (0/4) D:6
   Lair (8/8) D:8          Shoals (0/5) Lair:4       Spider (0/5) Lair:5
  Slime (0/6) Lair:8     

Altars:
Fedhas
Vehumet
Xom
the Shining One


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are too large for most types of armour.
You have claws for hands.
Your metabolism is lightning-fast.
You like to eat raw meat.
You heal very quickly.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are covered in fur (AC +1).
You have very tough skin (AC +2).


Message History

The dire elephant begins to bleed from its wounds!
The dire elephant is lightly wounded.
The dire elephant barely misses you. The dire elephant closely misses you.
You hit the dire elephant but do no damage.
The dire elephant is lightly wounded.
The dire elephant tramples you! You hold your ground! You block the dire elephant's attack.
You claw the dire elephant!
The dire elephant is moderately wounded.
The dire elephant closely misses you. The dire elephant trunk-slaps you.
You claw the dire elephant!
The dire elephant is heavily wounded.
The dire elephant tramples you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You hold your ground! The dire elephant closely misses you.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel better. The dire elephant closely misses you. The dire elephant trunk-slaps you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel yourself speed up. The dire elephant tramples you!
You die...

##...#####...##.##..###.
#...##8..'..[#♣..##P#..#
 #...'..######..##......
##P..#8...###♣......P#P#
#....####.##♣......PPP.#
##...'..#.##♣......P....
 ###.'..#..#♣.....##....
   ###..##.##.......#...
     #..P#.###....f....#
     #8.8#...#♣..f......
     ##@####.##...f..P..

     ##.Y.≈#..#......P##
     #..≈≈≈##.#..
     #≈≈≈≈≈≈#.#.P.P...##
     #≈≈≈≈≈.#.#.........
     ##≈≈≈P##.#....#....
      #''####.#.........
      ....##8.#...P.f.##
     #....#8..'...##..##
     #....#.⌠.'.........
     #[?([#8..'...#P....


You could see a dire elephant (bleeding).

Vanquished Creatures
  A dire elephant (Lair:8)
  An anaconda (Lair:8)
  7 death yaks
  Joseph (Lair:1)
  2 griffons
  An elephant slug (Lair:7)
  10 elephants
  3 black mambas
  9 spiny frogs
  A mermaid (Lair:4)
  The ghost of IWINIT the Ruffian, an average TrBe of Trog (D:5)
  6 komodo dragons
  A queen bee (Lair:4)
  A grizzly bear (Lair:4)
  5 blink frogs (Lair:4)
  2 basilisks
  2 wyverns
  15 yaks
  2 hungry ghosts
  2 hippogriffs
  5 fire drakes
  2 swamp worms (Lair:3)
  2 orc warriors
  4 ice beasts
  2 ogres
  A sky beast (D:6)
  4 giant goldfish
  2 phantoms (D:8)
  3 boring beetles
  Sigmund (D:4)
  4 centaurs
  The ghost of IWINIT the Firebug, an average HEFE (D:3)
  11 water moccasins
  A big kobold (D:8)
  11 giant slugs
  13 crocodiles
  A giant frog skeleton (D:5)  10 giant frogs
  A giant frog zombie (D:8)
  5 agate snails
  5 jellyfish
  23 killer bees
  2 crimson imps
  3 orc priests
  A big fish (Lair:1)
  An ogre skeleton (D:5)
  A gnoll shaman (D:6)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:7)
  13 hounds
  9 iguanas
  6 worker ants
  8 porcupines
  6 scorpions
  6 orc wizards
  13 jellies
  7 orange rats (Lair:5)
  8 spiders (Lair:5)
  12 sheep
  22 adders
  77 green rats
  8 gnolls
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  4 giant centipedes
  3 giant mites
  A shadow imp (D:8)
  19 worms
  12 grey rats
  A bat skeleton (D:4)
  2 giant geckos
  A green rat zombie (D:8)
  3 oozes
  16 orcs
  29 bats
  A giant cockroach (D:2)

  14 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  12 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  6 giant newts
  12 goblins
  A goblin zombie (D:3)
  2 grey rat zombies (D:8)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:6)
  A jackal skeleton (D:7)
  25 kobolds
  2 quokka skeletons (D:6)
  56 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:4)
  3 rat zombies (D:8)
  7 fungi
  18 plants
656 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Gastronok (Lair:2)
  Fannar (Lair:1)
  2 hydras
  3 death yaks
  An ice beast (Lair:1)
  A black bear (Lair:1)
  2 green rats
  A grey rat (Lair:2)
  A rat (Lair:2)
13 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A shadow (Lair:2)
  A porcupine (Lair:2)
  A giant centipede (Lair:3)
  An orc (D:8)
  A giant newt (D:2)
  A kobold (D:2)
  5 fungi
  6 plants
17 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 686 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | IWINIT, the Troll Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 23/23 MP: 0/0
   113 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 31/31 MP: 0/0
   420 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   440 | D:1      | Acquired Trog's second power
   565 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 37/37 MP: 1/1
   905 | D:2      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  1423 | D:3      | Noticed IWINIT's ghost (average HEFE)
  1432 | D:3      | Killed IWINIT's ghost
  1432 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1432 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 46/46 MP: 1/1
  1433 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 53/53 MP: 1/1
  1797 | D:3      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  1836 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2009 | D:3      | Acquired Trog's third power
  2094 | D:4      | Noticed a centaur
  2120 | D:4      | Killed a centaur
  2120 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/61 MP: 2/2
  2326 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2328 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  2516 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  2527 | D:4      | Killed Sigmund
  2721 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2721 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 63/68 MP: 2/2
  2968 | D:5      | Noticed IWINIT's ghost (average TrBe)
  2993 | D:5      | Killed IWINIT's ghost
  3145 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  3371 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3439 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 58/76 MP: 2/2
  3573 | D:5      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  4025 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  4156 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
  4347 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  4793 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 83/83 MP: 3/3
  4814 | D:6      | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
  5822 | D:7      | Received a gift from Trog
  5920 | D:7      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  5940 | D:7      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  6334 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  6350 | D:8      | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
  6777 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 88/92 MP: 3/3
  6807 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
  6818 | D:8      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  7042 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
  7348 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  7397 | Lair:1   | Noticed Fannar
  7412 | Lair:1   | Killed Fannar
  7412 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
  7605 | Lair:1   | Noticed Joseph
  7617 | Lair:1   | Killed Joseph
  7854 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Trog
  8303 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat
  8966 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 80/98 MP: 3/3
  9099 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
  9149 | Lair:2   | Noticed Gastronok
  9232 | Lair:2   | Killed Gastronok
  9369 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
  9827 | Lair:3   | Noticed a black mamba
  9836 | Lair:3   | Killed a black mamba
 10297 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 10424 | Lair:3   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 10439 | Lair:3   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 10776 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 11604 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 11752 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 12231 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/109 MP: 4/4
 12296 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 13035 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 13592 | Lair:5   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 14237 | Lair:7   | Noticed a four-headed hydra

 14251 | Lair:6   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 14251 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 14418 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 14625 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14625 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14646 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14647 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 14657 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14657 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14659 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14667 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 14667 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 14796 | Lair:5   | Killed a death yak
 14867 | Lair:5   | Killed a death yak
 14867 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
 14935 | Lair:5   | Killed a death yak
 14944 | Lair:5   | Killed a death yak
 15818 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 16210 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 16272 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 17018 | Lair:8   | Noticed a death yak
 17020 | Lair:8   | Noticed a death yak
 17020 | Lair:8   | Noticed a death yak
 17058 | Lair:7   | Killed a death yak
 17070 | Lair:7   | Killed a death yak
 17121 | Lair:8   | Noticed a death yak
 17131 | Lair:7   | Killed a death yak
 17131 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 1 in Traps
 17131 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 110/120 MP: 4/4
 17148 | Lair:7   | Killed a death yak
 17273 | Lair:8   | Got a steaming whip
 17274 | Lair:8   | Identified the whip of Beogh's Displeasure {slash, +Fly rN+ Str+2 Stlth--} (You
 17814 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 18462 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat
 18816 | Lair:8   | Noticed an anaconda
 18823 | Lair:8   | Killed an anaconda
 18844 | Lair:8   | Noticed a dire elephant
 18844 | Lair:8   | Noticed a dire elephant
 18857 | Lair:8   | Killed a dire elephant

 18863 | Lair:8   | Mangled by a dire elephant


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   127 |   132 |   434 |  1234 |   247 ||  2174
       Hammer            |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Fire: Sling             |       |       |       |     7 |       ||     7
Throw: Dart              |       |       |    10 |     9 |       ||    19
Invok: Berserk           |     2 |     1 |     4 |     8 |       ||    15
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     3 |     2 |       ||     5
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |     1 |     1 |       ||     2
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     6 |       ||     6
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     9 |     3 ||    12
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     3 |     8 |    16 |       ||    33
       Potion            |       |     4 |     8 |     1 |     3 ||    16
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |       ||     4


[nordetsa]

Couple of points I'd like to mention. First, why train all skills at once, especially ones you don't need? It's best to focus on 1~2 skills, and I think you should've invested on Unarmed combat more.

Second, you should drop that -1 shield and find new one.

And finally, why didn't you use BIA? It seems like you used berserk to deal with the first one. Did you got hit them by two at once also? I think even a troll wouldn't be able to handle two dire elephants at once...

[joellercoaster]

Basically the first one was a piece of cake and the second one just got lucky on the hits.

I think this is backwards - the first one had some unlucky rolls and the second one was a Dire Elephant.

Dire Elephants are jerks.

[delarado]

Fair enough Joeller, thanks, I hadn't seen a dire elephant before so I was quite cautious about the first one. I made sure only one could hit me at once, and when the first one barely did any damage, I figured I'd be ok to start on the second one with 75% HP remaining without using BIA, trogs hand or berserk. It hit me once for 30HP, I figured it got a lucky hit, so I attacked again. It hit me again for about 30hp. At this point I decided I needed to heal, so I used a potion of curing, which did nothing, so then I quaffed a potion of speed to run but it killed me on that turn.

Lots of coulda-woulda-shouldas here that just come down to my inexperience, Ive only been playing about a week and this is the first time I've even seen lair, let alone got to level 8 vaults!

Re: the training, someone said to me to train unarmed combat to 15 first. So I did that, then started on other skills. I'm not sure what I need to be honest or how things affect other things, I just reactivated what I thought i'd need after my UC hit about 15, And I was cross training mace's and flails for a while to deal with Hydras. What would you suggest I train for a TrBe and to what levels? Do I need armour, since none really fits me? To my mind it depends on if the armour skill affects my AC rating, or the usability of different types of armor (one would make it worth training, one would not in my mind!)

I used the only shield I found, as someone else mentioned that they'd probably use one if they found one... I just equipped it as soon as I found it!


I think I used berserk to deal with the anaconda, I certainly didnt use it to deal with the dire elephant because I would have been too scared that I'd end up exhausted or passing out in front of a dire elephant after berserk expired!

[joellercoaster]

I am not a great player of unarmed characters (though I have a few UC wins, one of them a Troll, I have also splatted many, many characters too), so take my advice for what it is worth. But:

Leave shields on the ground, and don't bother with armour skill at all.
Walk away from Hydras - they are the same speed as you. Certainly don't bother training an extra weapon skill just to deal with them, that XP could be going into more UC.
Consider some Throwing. If you find some large rocks, those are pretty awesome.

You have already noticed the problem with berserking - at the level you reached, you are at a point where you might not use it for the rest of the game except as a situational speed boost to run up some stairs. Trog's Hand is amazing though and BiA can occasionally save you or make a hard fight easier (at least it doesn't do any harm, unlike berserking).

[ZoFy]

Leave shields on the ground

Aren't trolls are the best shield users in the game (barring maybe naga mages)? Their claws stills hurt with a shield equipped, their size makes it easier to negate the penalties and their other defences are bad for the big part of the game.

and don't bother with armour skill at all

Until you find FDA.

[tasonir]

Trolls should definitely use a shield. Early game (lair) you preferably want a regular shield and 9 skill, and then sometime later on you get a large shield and 15 skill. If you only find a large shield, or just find a really good (ego) large shield, getting 15 shields earlier is fine, but don't forget to train unarmed.

your main problem was this:

Skills:

+ Level 6.7 Fighting
+ Level 10.7 Maces & Flails
+ Level 6.8 Dodging
+ Level 6.2 Shields
+ Level 2.2 Traps
+ Level 17.0 Unarmed Combat

This should instead be something like 0 maces, 9 shields (with a regular shield), 0 traps, base dodging that you started the game with*, and then higher fighting/unarmed combat.

*When to train dodging is personal preference, you'll want some eventually, but trolls don't really dodge well. Armor should be trained as soon as you find a dragon armor you want to use (typically FDA/IDA, but there are other options). Traps should be trained somewhat later on, but you have a terrible aptitude and don't need it this early.

A troll fighter is a very simple build: very high unarmed, then enough shields for your current shield size, good fighting/armor/dodging, and some traps and throwing. Throwing is very useful but 5 skill in throwing is enough for the whole game. 10 if you're really crazy about rocks. There's no need to go higher than that. Going over 8 means you could get throwing gifts, but I think that those will always be javelins, I'm not sure if you can be gifted large rocks as there's no branded ones.

[joellercoaster]

the first one had some unlucky rolls and the second one was a Dire Elephant.

Dire Elephants are jerks.

So it turns out this phenomenon is true of Hell Sentinels too. Tank a bunch of them and think, this is going well. When actually the first lot are all just loafing, and suddenly I am at 23/168HP