Help me to choose species/class combination.

[said46]

Hello everyone.

I played mostly by DEFE, DEIE or DECj of Vehumet (before 0.12) and I have one 3-rune win (or 4 - don't remember). I also tried WzMu of Sif Muna a bit, because I love this idea of getting free mana, but I took the ultimate resolution: I definitely hate constant Summoning because of it's boredom.
I was a bit bored playing a pure spellcaster as well, so I tried a MiFi. I wasn't very successful with him, but I got some idea how it works. Now I'm trying to carry on with MiFi, but I'm not sure that I like it, mostly because I prefer to cast spells occasionally and, moreover, I really love guides how to play by a particular species/class combination (or at least some clear examples). I tried to study games of top-players, but the logs are not very clear and it's no easy to find such games.

Conclusion: I'd like to try something new to win, but I can't decide what exactly. Probably I want to play a spellcaster again, but it should be something tougher than DE and wield a melee weapon. It could be High Elf for example, or something suitable for this purpose. Or it would be a warrior, but he should be able to cast spells at least in the late game. I sincerely appreciate any advice and much more any links to guides or game logs (or ttyrecs).

P.S. By the way, I don't like Berserkers. I've never tried them, but I feel I wouldn't like it.
P.S.S. I definitely saw a really nice guide about playing an Ogre (or Troll?) here, but I cannot find it again.

[Thalfon]

You could try an IE and hybridize to polearms (Mf), long blades (HE), anything (Hu) and so forth rather than staying pure caster. There are a couple MfIE threads on front page of The Tavern atm you can look at.

You could try a DrMo or DrTm, both of which will almost certainly hybridize into magic late game (in the case of Tm, I mean "non-Tmut magic") since they have no armour to train, leaving more XP for magic (and no armour EV penalty).

You could try a Ne or take Kiku, and do a melee/necro hybrid that way. Having not tried this, I'm not sure how they're built.

You could try an En, and be a stabber using hexes. This can hybridize later in a few ways (depending in part on race). SpEn is common, and you should find info easily if you search. VpEn also seems somewhat common.

[said46]

Forgot to mention: I tried to play Spriggan, but didn't find it very exciting at the moment. I might try it in the future though.

[prozacelf]

You could try a Ne or take Kiku, and do a melee/necro hybrid that way. Having not tried this, I'm not sure how they're built.

You could try an En, and be a stabber using hexes. This can hybridize later in a few ways (depending in part on race). SpEn is common, and you should find info easily if you search. VpEn also seems somewhat common.

FWIW, I find it easier to start as a melee type (Gl works well I find) and pick up the necro with Kiku a bit later. Starting as Ne is a bit more of a pain, although in very early Dungeon skeletons and Pain can do most of your work for you. I tend to spread my skills a little thin when I start as Ne though, so take that with a grain of salt.

There are a bunch of threads on here dealing with SpEn and VpEn, and VpEn hybridizes well into necro with Kiku, so you could always try that.

[said46]

It seems to me that a Necromancer and a stabber are not the classes I'd like to play. Transmuter sounds good, but I think I'll try them later.

Now I'm reading about Skald, but I need a good example at least. I'd try MfIE or HEIE, but I wouldn't say that there are really good fresh topics in the forum. I think it would be good to have a couple of links to character files with 15-rune victory.

[EvilAshe]

TeFE. Good with pretty much any weapon, and the ability to evoke flight at level 5+ (permament at level 15) for a speed and EV boost give you a mobile, albeit fragile, race that can kite with spells or engage in melee with the option of running away from most things if it start going poorly.
What I'm saying is Te is pretty much the best race ever and FE will give you Conjure and Sticky Flame, perfect for dealing with those tougher monsters if you're just looking for spells to back up your melee

[Zargon]

Two combos come to mind:

1) DrCj. You've got the spellcasting background, but they have more HP and better fighting aptitude, as well as resonable aptitudes for everything else. They gain AC passively instead of having body armour, so you don't need to worry about getting hold of decent armour and training the armour skill. Plus at level 7 they get their colour fixed, at which point you can focus on a particular spell school. And I quite like the randomness and uncertainty of not knowing what colour you're going to end up as.

2) DgGl. You start off as a melee dude, but if you push int every 3 levels you can gradually turn into a melee dude with support spells, and then by the extended game you can be a spellcasting dude with melee support. I got a 15 runer recently with a full Zig clear using Tornado with one.

[Psieye]

Or it would be a warrior, but he should be able to cast spells at least in the late game.

You've just described every melee build ever that doesn't stick with Trog the whole game. There's plenty EXP even in a 3-rune game to get spells up after getting the core melee skills polished.

Anyway, if you want to try something new, pick Nemelex as your god and see how you fare.

[said46]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.2 (tiles) character file.

16511 said46 the Thaumaturge (level 12, -5/92 HPs)
             Began as a Yellow Draconian Ice Elementalist on June 12, 2013.
             Was an Elder of Vehumet.
             Slain by Rupert
             ... wielding a +2,+1 great sword of flaming
              (8 damage)
             ... on Level 3 of the Lair of Beasts on June 13, 2013.
             The game lasted 02:57:03 (21839 turns).

said46 the Thaumaturge (DrIE)                      Turns: 21839, Time: 02:57:03

HP  -5/92        AC 10     Str  9      XL: 12   Next:  5%
MP   2/29        EV 12     Int 21      God: Vehumet [****..]
Gold 526         SH  0     Dex 12      Spells:  9 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   q - staff of summoning
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : +   (armour unavailable)
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : +   p - +2 cap
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Sust.Abil.: + .     Spirit.Shd : .   (no gloves)
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   G - amulet of warding
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : +   E - ring of protection from cold {unknown}
                                     H - ring of sustain abilities {unknown}

@: short of breath, flying, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly
stealthy
A: spit acid, acid resistance, unfitting armour, poison resistance, AC +8, Str
-1
a: Spit Acid, Renounce Religion


You were on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 13 of its levels.

You collected 506 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 z - a +1,+2 flail of protection
 I - a +0,+0 spear
 O - a +0,+0 spear
 Q - a +0,+0 spear (quivered)
 S - a +0,+0 spear
Missiles
 h - 43 darts
 B - a poisoned dart
Armour
 p - a +2 cap (worn)
Magical devices
 f - a wand of fireball (9)
 i - a wand of lightning (2)
 n - a wand of draining (8)
 o - a wand of disintegration (7)
 y - a wand of polymorph (7)
Comestibles
 c - 7 bread rations
 t - 2 rotting chunks of quokka flesh
 u - a chunk of water moccasin flesh
 w - a chunk of giant centipede flesh
 x - 3 strawberries
Scrolls
 a - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 d - a scroll of recharging
 m - a scroll of identify
 r - 2 scrolls of fear
 s - a scroll of immolation {unknown}
Jewellery
 b - an uncursed ring of protection from cold {unknown}
 g - a +1 ring of protection
 C - an uncursed ring of life protection
 E - a ring of protection from cold (right hand) {unknown}
 G - an amulet of warding (around neck)
 H - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand) {unknown}
Potions
 e - 2 potions of heal wounds
 j - a potion of invisibility {unknown}
 k - a potion of magic {unknown}
 D - 3 potions of curing
 M - 2 potions of restore abilities
Books
 v - a book of Annihilations {highlevel}   
   This book is beyond your current level of understanding.
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Poison Arrow                       Conjuration/Poison           6
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7
   Chain Lightning                    Conjuration/Air              8
   Lehudib's Crystal Spear            Conjuration/Earth            8
   Ice Storm                          Conjuration/Ice              9
   Fire Storm                         Conjuration/Fire             9
 K - a book of Burglary   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Apportation                        Translocation                1
   *Swiftness                         Charms/Air                   2
   Passwall                           Transmutation/Earth          3
   Passage of Golubria                Translocation                4
   Lee's Rapid Deconstruction         Earth                        5
   Darkness                           Hexes                        7
Magical staves
 q - an uncursed staff of summoning (weapon)


   Skills:
 - Level 7,1 Fighting
 - Level 2,0 Dodging
 - Level 2,1 Stealth
 - Level 4,0 Traps
 - Level 10,5 Spellcasting
 + Level 8,7 Conjurations
 - Level 2,0 Charms
 - Level 5,0 Summonings
 - Level 3,5 Translocations
 - Level 10,4 Ice Magic
 - Level 2,2 Air Magic


You had 7 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Freeze                Ice            #####        1%          1    None
b - Throw Frost           Conj/Ice       #######      1%          2    None
c - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####....    1%          3    None
e - Throw Icicle          Conj/Ice       #######..    1%          4    ##.....
i - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       #######...   2%          4    ##.....
k - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
r - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######....   1%          3    None
s - Condensation Shield   Ice            #######...   1%          4    ##.....
w - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ####......   4%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/27)             Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:8
   Lair (3/8) D:9         
 Swamp: Lair:3-6    Shoals: Lair:3-6     Snake: Lair:3-6    Spider: Lair:3-6

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One

Annotations
D:2 Sigmund
D:8 exclusion: killer bee
D:9 exclusion: statue
Lair:2 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Lair:3 Rupert


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can spit globs of acid.
You can corrode armour when you spit acid.
You are resistant to acid.
Your golden yellow scales are hard (AC +8).
Your body does not fit into most forms of armour.
Your cold-blooded metabolism reacts poorly to cold.
You are clumsy (Dex -1).
Your muscles are flexible, but weak (Str -1, Dex +1).
Your system is resistant to poisons.


Message History

Rupert burns you!
Use which ability? (? or * to list)
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Rupert
Aim: Rupert, wielding a great sword of flaming and wearing a dwarven scale mail (severely wounded, berserk)
You spit a glob of acid. The acid hits Rupert.
Rupert is severely wounded.
You feel somewhat more hungry.
Rupert hits you with a great sword of flaming!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Rupert burns you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Casting: Freeze
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Freeze
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Rupert
Aim: Rupert, wielding a great sword of flaming and wearing a dwarven scale mail (severely wounded, berserk)
You freeze Rupert.
Rupert is severely wounded.
Rupert hits you with a great sword of flaming!
You die...

  ..#                       ##.f       .? ?
 ##.##                       ..##     #. ???
##...#                       #.P###  #. ..??
.....#######                ##...P###f#....?
....#.#....#.               #(......f.....?#
.......)...(.  ..          ##..............#
.....#.##.### P.P         ##.....I.........#
.......#....##..        ###................#
...............         ...................#
.....#.#.####.#          ###...#.#..#......#
.....###P#.##P######    ######....###.....F
.......#......<.#..######.#f......# .(#....
......................@@..........# f....
.......#............##.###P.P#....##..#
.......#...............>..............#
..###.#####.fP#.####.#..#..#.#.#..#.#.#
### ###   #######  #######.#########....
                         ###        #.#...
                                     .# ...
                                      #  .


You could see Rupert (berserk).

Vanquished Creatures
  3 spiny frogs
  A black mamba (Lair:2)
  2 komodo dragons (Lair:1)
  A two-headed ogre (D:9)
  2 basilisks
  20 yaks
  A fire drake (Lair:2)
  3 hippogriffs (Lair:1)
  5 war dogs (Lair:1)
  12 soldier ants (Lair:2)
  3 ogres
  3 sky beasts
  2 phantoms
  6 centaurs
  4 crocodiles
  5 water moccasins
  A two-headed ogre zombie (D:8)
  Blork the orc (D:4)
  A centaur skeleton (D:9)
  8 giant frogs
  A killer bee (D:8)
  A two-headed ogre skeleton (D:7)
  6 wights
  A goliath beetle (D:7)
  13 crimson imps
  A shadow (D:8)
  7 hounds
  An ogre skeleton (D:4)
  A hound zombie (D:9)
  5 iguanas
  4 scorpions
  2 orc priests
  4 orc wizards
  16 worker ants
  A worker ant zombie (D:7)
  2 porcupines (Lair:1)
  19 adders
  14 gnolls
  A giant mite (D:2)
  4 giant centipedes
  18 green rats
  An inept feature mimic (D:4)
  2 worms (D:6)
  A gnoll skeleton (D:5)
  A giant eyeball (D:6)
  An ooze (D:4)
  17 orcs
  16 bats
  11 giant cockroaches
  15 goblins
  15 hobgoblins
  15 kobolds
  11 quokkas
  4 ball pythons
  4 giant geckos
  3 giant newts
  4 giant spores
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:5)
  11 jackals
  An orc skeleton (D:8)
  23 rats
  19 ballistomycetes
  2 fungi (Lair:1)
  A plant (D:5)
385 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Erica (Lair:1)
  A hydra (Lair:2)
  Joseph (Lair:1)
  A queen ant (Lair:2)
  2 spiny frogs
  A komodo dragon (Lair:2)
  3 yaks (D:9)
  8 soldier ants (Lair:2)
  6 war dogs (Lair:1)
  A phantom (D:8)
  A giant slug (Lair:2)
  4 killer bees (D:8)
  3 worker ants (Lair:2)
  A green rat (Lair:2)
  A giant gecko (Lair:2)
  A rat (D:8)
  A fungus (Lair:2)
37 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  41 ice beasts
  A crocodile (Lair:1)
  3 green rats (Lair:1)
  3 orcs (D:6)
  A giant cockroach (D:5)
  A giant spore (D:6)
  A rat (Lair:2)
51 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 473 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | said46, the Draconian Ice Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 3/3
   273 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/20 MP: 2/4
   634 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Frost
  1046 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 26/26 MP: 4/6
  1179 | D:2      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  1312 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Ozocubu's Armour
  1777 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/33 MP: 5/9
  1854 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  2307 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Ice Magic
  2563 | D:3      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  2812 | D:2      | Gained mutation: Your system is resistant to poisons. [potion of mutation]
  2812 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You are clumsy (Dex -1). [potion of mutation]
  2812 | D:2      | Gained mutation: Your muscles are flexible, but weak (Str -1, Dex +1). [potion of mutation]
  3339 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 38/38 MP: 10/10
  4019 | D:4      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4220 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
  4263 | D:4      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  4337 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 42/45 MP: 3/12
  4497 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Ice Magic
  4833 | D:4      | Noticed Blork the orc
  4869 | D:4      | Killed Blork the orc
  4869 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Ice Magic
  4869 | D:4      | Your scales start taking on a golden yellow colour.
  4869 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 50/50 MP: 4/14
  5194 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5499 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Ice Magic
  6360 | D:5      | Learned a level 3 spell: Ozocubu's Armour
  6365 | D:5      | Learned a level 4 spell: Condensation Shield
  6370 | D:5      | Learned a level 4 spell: Throw Icicle
  6409 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 57/57 MP: 13/18
  6665 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7021 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  7025 | D:6      | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
  7162 | D:6      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  7857 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  8014 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  8858 | D:7      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  8929 | D:7      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
  8989 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
  9385 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 54/62 MP: 17/21
  9402 | D:7      | Acquired Vehumet's first power
  9402 | D:7      | Offered knowledge of Sandblast by Vehumet.
  9934 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  9964 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
  9988 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 10533 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 10533 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Traps
 11072 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
 11120 | D:8      | Offered knowledge of Shock by Vehumet.
 11739 | D:9      | Noticed an archer statue
 12469 | D:6      | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Ice Beast
 12819 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
 12819 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 70/70 MP: 10/24
 13561 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 14140 | D:9      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 14151 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 14230 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
 14605 | D:9      | Reached skill level 9 in Ice Magic
 15304 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 15330 | Lair:1   | Noticed Erica
 15350 | Lair:1   | Killed Erica
 15350 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Ice Magic
 15965 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 77/77 MP: 21/26
 16176 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Mephitic Cloud by Vehumet.
 16192 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 16457 | Lair:1   | Noticed Joseph
 16471 | Lair:1   | Killed Joseph
 16933 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 17056 | Lair:1   | Acquired Vehumet's second power
 18482 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Dazzling Spray by Vehumet.
 18590 | Lair:2   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 19442 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 19957 | Lair:2   | Acquired Vehumet's third power
 20090 | Lair:2   | Offered knowledge of Airstrike by Vehumet.
 20549 | Lair:3   | Noticed Rupert
 20679 | Lair:2   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 21071 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 56/92 MP: 6/29
 21813 | Lair:3   | Paralysed by Rupert for 4 turns
 21838 | Lair:3   | HP: 3/92 [Rupert/great sword of flaming (12)]
 21839 | Lair:3   | Slain by Rupert


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    12 |       |       |       ||    12
       Dagger            |     5 |    20 |     9 |       ||    34
       Whip              |    15 |       |       |       ||    15
       Flail             |       |       |   154 |    73 ||   227
       Staff             |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Throw: Stone             |   105 |   136 |       |       ||   241
       Spear             |       |    34 |    85 |    10 ||   129
       Dart              |       |     4 |   213 |    13 ||   230
 Cast: Freeze            |    42 |   102 |   233 |   380 ||   757
       Throw Frost       |       |     3 |    94 |   176 ||   273
       Ozocubu's Armour  |       |     1 |    32 |    47 ||    80
       Throw Icicle      |       |       |    16 |     1 ||    17
       Condensation Shie |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Swiftness         |       |       |    10 |     5 ||    15
       Blink             |       |       |     5 |     7 ||    12
       Summon Ice Beast  |       |       |       |    64 ||    64
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |     9 ||     9
 Abil: Spit Acid         |       |       |    18 |    10 ||    28
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     5 |     3 ||     8
  Use: Potion            |       |     6 |       |     4 ||    10
       Scroll            |       |       |    20 |     3 ||    23


Guys, what am I doing wrong? I started as a DrIE a lot of times, but I am always dying. I've tried TeFE - pretty strong. DrIE is usually mach harder to play for me. By the way, I always hesitate if I should start training a weapon skill. Once when I was playing TeFE, I found a good art sword in the begining and started training it. It was a pleasure to play the character, but finally he died. After that I tried playing TeFE again, but did not found any decent weapon, so I didn't start training any weapons skills and postponed it every time I was choosing a skill to train. The character was prerry strong, but he did not have such versatility as the previous one, espeacially when the MP pool was empty. I always hesitate what weapon and when I should train a weapon skill for DrIE as well.

[Mankeli]

Guys, what am I doing wrong?

You tried to fight Rupert on Lair:3. That's pretty much a game-ender for most/all characters right there.

[Lasty]

You probably shouldn't be training a weapon. Tengu are pretty squishy, and so are fire elementalists -- people engaging in melee combat generally want either heavy armour and Armour skill or high Dex and Dodging skill. An FE often has okay Dex, but you just don't have enough experience to get Dodging, Fire, Conjurations, and a weapon all to decent levels. Chances are you're dying because a) your experience is too split up, making you not-quite-good-enough at too many things.

You may also be dying because you're playing blaster characters and then engaging in melee when your mp runs out, instead of running away from monsters when your mp is getting low and choosing your fights carefully.

[mopl]

Also don't forget the general advice : first get your offence skills online (magic school or weapon depending on the character), then the defense ones (armour/dodging)

[Sar]

Nothing wrong with hybridizing as a Tengu, really. You have EV bonus and good apts for pretty much everything, and you can wear a lighter dragon armour too. You probably don't want to hybridize too early, though (but whacking rats and such with skill 0 weapon is okay).

[BTA]

I like Gargoyles, "GR", because they start out immune to poison, immune to rotting, do not breath - can not drown, resistant to petrification, resistant to negative energy, take half damage to torment and they have unlimited fly at 14th level. Oh and naked their AC could easily be better than another race with plate armor and even when they are hit, being made out of stone, means they take less damage. Immune to poison is especially important in the beginning. Flying is convenient after the beginning. And, unlike other flyers, they can wear all forms of armor.

In exchange for all this, gargoyles can not learn or cast statue form or cast cure poison. Gargoyles are immune to poison. Gargoyles can worship any god other than Yredelemnul; good, evil or neutral.

I like using axes because groups and swarms are common and axes allow you to attack every enemy next to you. Also, if confused or attacked by something you can not see, you can still hit them.

I like wizards for their beginning spell set. Magic dart always hits, Blink is OK for getting out of a tight situation. Call imp is very useful for ganging up on a tough monster or creating a blockade to give you a chance to put some distance between you and a strong enemy. Repel missiles is a life saver, especially when the enemy is a group of centaurs or just one cyclops throwing large rocks. I love Mephitic Cloud because they become confused and do not attack you, they are easier to hit and they might hit other enemies, most importantly, they might not attack you.

I like Skalds because Infusion helps to do more damage in less time and there are no resistance issues. And, skalds are fighters that can cast spells. Some spells work really well, other spells do not do much and some spells, in some situations magic is an unwanted end of the game: you died?!

Which god is a tough choice. I want Ashenzari in the very beginning to tell me which items are cursed and what their attributes are. Sif Muna is useful when I have enough spellbooks and higher spellcasting abilities that I want to sort out the spells I wan to cast. The Shining one is great for end game - summoning angels and fighting anything sensitive to holy damage, protecting you from negative energy and curses. I have tried most of the other gods with different characters and different amounts of success. Changing gods is not a good habit to become addicted to. The gods that give items or random changes rarely give what I want.

[WingedEspeon]

I haven't read the entire thread but MfSk sounds great for you. my advice is try to get spectral weapon online around D:3 or so, and to use shroud heavily on D:2. After that keep polearms a bit higher than everything else but do keep some balance in physical skills. casting skills should be trained only high enough to get your important spells (spectral weapon) online. Oka is good for this strategy, although there are other gods that work well with this strategy. Around lair my "guide" kinda breaks down because it depends on what books drop, etc.

EDIT:Axes suck.

[Clownie]

EDIT:Axes suck.

Why?

[WingedEspeon]

EDIT:Axes suck.

Why?

They have lower base damage than the other weapon types and they encourage bad positioning. Polearms also have the lower base damage, but the reaching means that you get a free hit when meleeing stuff 1v1 and also it is easy to keep a spectral weapon up with polearms.

I do like axes in some edge cases like when playing Fo^Chei, or HOFi/Gl where your axes apt way igher than your other apts. They are also good for speed running.

[asdu]

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.2 (tiles) character file.

You may want to update. 0.17 is the most recent version. Yours is from 3 years or so ago.

[Jarlyk]

The thread is from three years ago.

[Clownie]

EDIT:Axes suck.

Why?

They have lower base damage than the other weapon types and they encourage bad positioning. Polearms also have the lower base damage, but the reaching means that you get a free hit when meleeing stuff 1v1 and also it is easy to keep a spectral weapon up with polearms.

I do like axes in some edge cases like when playing Fo^Chei, or HOFi/Gl where your axes apt way igher than your other apts. They are also good for speed running.

Yeah, I like them because they let me tear through crowds much, much faster and thus get a better score because fights are shorter. I can see your point, though, and I wouldn't really use axes on other species than HO, DD, or Fo either (unless I found a hand axe of electrocution on D1-3).

[Hurkyl]

EDIT:Axes suck.

Why?

They have lower base damage than the other weapon types and they encourage bad positioning.

While cleaving is often derided on the basis that you shouldn't get in fights with two monsters at once, the opposing argument is that you also shouldn't get into fights where the small difference in base damage actually matters, so that you're better off having the extra option of cleaving through multiples when appropriate.

[WingedEspeon]

While cleaving is often derided on the basis that you shouldn't get in fights with two monsters at once, the opposing argument is that you also shouldn't get into fights where the small difference in base damage actually matters, so that you're better off having the extra option of cleaving through multiples when appropriate.

In practice you will likely end up fighting two things at once AND you will end up in fights where every last bit of base damage matters. The difference is that you will likely end up in fights early game vs a giant geko on D:1 or an adder on D:1-2 where every bit of base damage matters, you have no consumables, and you can't run away because you are slower than the threat. Later you will end up fighting where cleaving could be useful, but you will have escape options open and you will still do some fighting in corridors/1v1ing a unique even in late game.

[ZipZipskins]

# !

[Siegurt]

While cleaving is often derided on the basis that you shouldn't get in fights with two monsters at once, the opposing argument is that you also shouldn't get into fights where the small difference in base damage actually matters, so that you're better off having the extra option of cleaving through multiples when appropriate.

In practice you will likely end up fighting two things at once AND you will end up in fights where every last bit of base damage matters. The difference is that you will likely end up in fights early game vs a giant geko on D:1 or an adder on D:1-2 where every bit of base damage matters, you have no consumables, and you can't run away because you are slower than the threat. Later you will end up fighting where cleaving could be useful, but you will have escape options open and you will still do some fighting in corridors/1v1ing a unique even in late game.

Of course likewise in those early fights your base damage is limited by current weapon availability, not by weapon type, it is very very possible that in those first fights when base damage is critical, that the best base damage weapon yoy have found happens to be an axe.

[WingedEspeon]

While cleaving is often derided on the basis that you shouldn't get in fights with two monsters at once, the opposing argument is that you also shouldn't get into fights where the small difference in base damage actually matters, so that you're better off having the extra option of cleaving through multiples when appropriate.

In practice you will likely end up fighting two things at once AND you will end up in fights where every last bit of base damage matters. The difference is that you will likely end up in fights early game vs a giant geko on D:1 or an adder on D:1-2 where every bit of base damage matters, you have no consumables, and you can't run away because you are slower than the threat. Later you will end up fighting where cleaving could be useful, but you will have escape options open and you will still do some fighting in corridors/1v1ing a unique even in late game.

Of course likewise in those early fights your base damage is limited by current weapon availability, not by weapon type, it is very very possible that in those first fights when base damage is critical, that the best base damage weapon you have found happens to be an axe.

Except that in early fights you won't have min delay yet so the base speed of the weapon you are using is very important too, so you will have a little higher base damage from a war axe over a flail/longsword but you will attack ~1.3 auts rather than at about ~1.1 auts meaning you will do less damage per aut. Attack speed is very important but is often ignored because most of the high tier weapons and a lot of the not-so-high tier ones attack at the same speed once you reach min delay.

[ydeve]

wow, this is a really old necro. Why do people bring up years old threads instead of just making a new one?

[Siegurt]

wow, this is a really old necro. Why do people bring up years old threads instead of just making a new one?

I suspect they never learned the art of the mark all forums as read link