The Tomb as a Melee Character


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Dungeon Dilettante

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:14

The Tomb as a Melee Character

So, for the first time ever, I managed to clear up the Tomb and grab the Golden rune, using a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist and an absurd number of Summoned Dragons to sponge Death Curses from the equally absurd hordes of Mummies and variants. Plus a little Mass Abjuration on the side. Kiku probably would've been a good idea for handling that in retrospect, since I've only just now found out that protection from Death Curses is a bonus of worshipping him. But... I guess I can't argue with results?

Anyway, this got me wondering, because the Tomb was pretty genuinely murderous (particularly the wide hallway in Tomb 3 with a bazillion-odd Guardian Mummies) even without an absolute hailstorm of Death Curses on my own head. I stonewalled there once when I was playing a Minotaur Fighter, so now I'm wondering how you're intended to take the Tomb on as a Melee character. The Okawaru -> TSO progression helps a bit... rN+++, Sacred Scourge, and all that. Still, though, the Death Curses and repeated Torment barrages seem pretty overwhelming. Rotting in particular was a hassle, because the supply of Potions of Curing/Heal Wounds is overall fairly finite, while the Tomb's supply of high level mummies is significantly less so. My Minotaur Fighter had to bail out before he rotted himself into oblivion--and I hadn't even hit Tomb 3 yet.

I'm assuming the answer here isn't just "Go worship Kiku," so any pointers folks have for tackling the Tomb as a fighter-type character would be much appreciated. It's been one of the great puzzles of Crawl to me thus far in my quest for a fifteen-rune game.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:27

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

for everybody: try not to fight too much at once, use retreating/stairdancing as needed. If a greater mummy is on screen, change that. unless you are quite close and can murder it. one sustab ring is often worthwhile (two is probably excessive, depends on what other rings you have of course). Big weapons are much better than shields here.

worshipping Trog: use antimagic. wand of haste can help, as can stasis (don't use stasis if you have /haste).

not-Trog: holy weapons, silence, haste

TSO: angels, haste them.

rot: usually use !curing when you have red rot, or yellow rot + fullHP + some rotted HP.

skipping the hall on tomb:1 (by teleporting on tomb:2) is a very reasonable thing to do, though not mandatory.
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cjo

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:32

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

minmay wrote:fight things on tomb:1 one at a time (hopefully you have figured out to fight enemies one at a time already...), randomly teleport to get to the downstairs on tomb:2, dont make any noise on tomb:3


Indeed? Hm.

Hadn't really occurred to me to teleport around randomly to skip Tomb 2. What do you mean by not making any noise on Tomb 3, though? I'm guessing that's teleporting and praying that you land near the rune, then teleporting and praying back up the stairs before the mummy swarm sees you, but I'd like to be sure before putting it into practice.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:37

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Also, if you don't have enough curing potions for rotting then you have been a) extremely unlucky or much more likely b) guilty of poor item management. You don't want to carry a lot of curing potions (or any other potions for that matter) with you in early, mid or late game apart from some hells (Tartarus) and Tomb. Item destruction hits harder the more items you carry in a stack. Also if you play poorly before Tomb then you probably have less curing and healing for Tomb because you have used them all. Acquire wands if you don't have heal wounds and most other wands are already identified. Also, yellow rot is usually not that bad but red rot is. I usually quaff curing in yellow rot stage because I don't often times find much use for all those curing potions lying around but if you have a shortage of curing then don't.

Tomb is kinda twofold: it can be horrible bad and your best character can die in only a few turns. On the other hand, if you do everything right then it is pretty manageable. I don't recall ever losing a character in Tomb and I've been there with probably something like 35 or more characters. The best times are the ones when a guardian mummy gets a bow with dispersal arrows on Tomb:3 while you are trying to stairdance :D.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:38

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Killing everything in tomb:3 is very easy, minmay is just saying you don't want to make noise on tomb:3 while you are killing things (at least until you kill the greater mummies).

I kill the welcome committee in Tomb:2 since randomly teleporting around with it still alive can be dangerous, but going around the rim on Tomb:1 is very tedious and dangerous if you get impatient so randomly teleporting in Tomb:2 is mainly to skip that.

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Post Monday, 3rd June 2013, 23:39

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Obselescence wrote:
minmay wrote:fight things on tomb:1 one at a time (hopefully you have figured out to fight enemies one at a time already...), randomly teleport to get to the downstairs on tomb:2, dont make any noise on tomb:3


Indeed? Hm.

Hadn't really occurred to me to teleport around randomly to skip Tomb 2. What do you mean by not making any noise on Tomb 3, though? I'm guessing that's teleporting and praying that you land near the rune, then teleporting and praying back up the stairs before the mummy swarm sees you, but I'd like to be sure before putting it into practice.

He means that fighting 10 tormenting mummies at a time is worse than fighting one tormenting mummy at a time.

Edit. shadow ninja'ed.

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 01:41

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

I cleared Tomb with a spelless MiFi of TSO and it wasn't that bad. The key is to stairdance and never fight more than 1 (maybe 2) Mummy Priests or Guardian Mummies. I wouldn't suggest even making a single attack on Tomb:3. I think noise is highly amplified, so one swing of your weapon, even near the stairs could alert the whole floor (I might be wrong about this). Still, I just lured everything to the stairs and fought it on Tomb:2. I would go back down and walk over until something came on screen, let it wake up and follow me back by itself. The mummies themselves don't make any noise, so as long as you don't get something on screen, it wont wake up. Be wary of Flying Skulls though as they'll wake the entire floor. Avoid them until you've dealt with everything else.

As for potions of curing, if you run out, you can always delve into Pandemonium. I also explore Tomb in it's entirety and don't skip any part of it. This is mostly because I'm an obsessive completionist and Tomb gives soooo much EXP that I can't turn down.

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Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 02:14

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

For TSO melee you can either summon up a butt load of angels and they'll mop up most of the mummies for you, or just stair dance as has been mentioned before.

Silence is also great for mummy killin.
KoboldLord wrote:I'm also morbidly curious now as to how Shatter is abusable for 'stealth tricks'. It's about as stealthy as the Kool-Aid Man smashing through the walls and running through the room

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 08:26

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Well, I've just taken the tomb without too many problems with a Demigod Gladiator, using this little strategy guide:

1) Gear:
a) You want at least rN+ (to cut out pain and reduce torment a little bit), but preferably rN+++ (to reduce torment quite a fair bit and cut out draining).
b) At least one =SusAb.
c) A weapon of holy wrath.
d) Boots of running (to combat slowness death curse).
e) Plenty of scrolls of silence and holy word.
f) Wands of healing, hasting and teleportation, since you will be silenced a lot of the time.
g) Potions of restore abilities and/or royal jellies, and potions of curing to stop the rot.
h) MR at extraordinarily at least (for the sphinxes)

2) Skills:
a) In addition to the usual melee skills, stealth is good as there is little ambient noise in the tomb. Also, unless you're a Troglodyte, some support magic is a good idea: air magic+hexes (for silence), charms (for haste etc.) and necromancy (general purpose) are all good.

3) Spells:
a) Before any fight or taking stairs: Cast haste and regen plus any other buffs you may require, then cast silence or read a scroll of silence.
b) Swiftness is helpful, but remember it reduces your stealth a bit.

4) Stairdance to pull a few mummies up at a time from Tomb:2 entrance and Tomb:3. Patience here is the key. Don't go downstairs without full health.
5) Don't worry too much about death curses: drink !curing for red rot only, and only kill a mummy if you're 1/3 HP or above.

Edit: Accidentally submitted post before finishing it.
Last edited by Zargon on Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 11:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 08:38

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Obselescence wrote:What do you mean by not making any noise on Tomb 3, though?
Others have pointed out "stairdance". My addendum: hitting things in melee (or a ranged launcher) makes noise. You don't want to be attacking at all while on Tomb:3 until you've thinned out the crowd.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 15:38

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Don't make noise on tomb 3 because it's really quiet there and the mummy priests can smell your fear. If they do start to swamp you, start stairdancing, and don't stop until everyone is dead.
Bring a lot of food, as there's none in tomb.
TSO will be a nice god here, as he protects from negitive energy and gives piety for killing mummies.
Ash is another choice, as he give immunity to the death curses that go after your equipment.
As stated before, a controlled teleport will let you skip a large portion of the branch. Given that my MuNe of kiku with dispel undead and mass abjuration had trouble with tomb, a spelless fighter is probably doomed in a head on fight, so this is probably your best option. Get in, grab the rune, get out before the mummies eat your soul.

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Post Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 16:51

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

khalil wrote:Bring a lot of food, as there's none in tomb.

Food can generate randomly in Tomb IIRC and Sphinxes leave corpses. Bring lots of food regardless.
khalil wrote:As stated before, a controlled teleport will let you skip a large portion of the branch

Tomb is -cTele in 0.12 and earlier.
khalil wrote:fighter is probably doomed in a head on fight, so this is probably your best option. Get in, grab the rune, get out before the mummies eat your soul.

A mummy fighter can do Tomb as his/hers fourth of fifth rune without problems.

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Post Wednesday, 5th June 2013, 00:39

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

This was a really timely thread for me; I was thinking of posting a similar question but probably wouldn't have gotten around to it. I often want to bull on ahead instead of slowing down to ask questions. I followed the advice here and brought home my first 15-rune win :) I was playing a MiFi of TSO who maxed out longbows, and my instinct would have been to lure to the stairs on tomb 3, but then shoot from the stairs instead of letting them approach me. This thread convinced me to wait it out on the stairs and staircase dance them. Anyway, I had gotten each rune individually, but never all 15 as a set, so I am a happy camper right now. :)

Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 5th June 2013, 16:19

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

cjo wrote: I followed the advice here and brought home my first 15-rune win :)


Major congratulations! It's a great feeling, isn't it? Have you tackled a ziggurat before? If not, this may be your next challenge!
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Post Wednesday, 5th June 2013, 16:33

Re: The Tomb as a Melee Character

Zargon wrote:
cjo wrote: I followed the advice here and brought home my first 15-rune win :)


Major congratulations! It's a great feeling, isn't it? Have you tackled a ziggurat before? If not, this may be your next challenge!


Thanks! I've never been in a zig. I found one in pan this game but didn't have the gold for it. And I muddled through the extended game by the skin of my teeth, it was by no means a "clean" win, so I have plenty of challenges still to face, with or without ziggurats :)

(This character got ridiculously lucky in the early game - boots of running just lying around somewhere pre-temple, artifact vorpal longbow for sale, and artifact fire dragon armour just lying about the lair. But I'm not gonna turn up my nose at luck :) )

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