The Tavern

What is better on level 1...

ring of magical power
ring of fire
staff of fire
staff of conjuration
ring of protection +6
ring of evasion +6
wand of hasting
book of the dragon
amulet of the gourmand
ring of intelligence +6

which of these are more awesome for a just starting character than the others, and why?

Much like masturbation, startscumming makes you blind. Also, there is only a limited number of games of crawl. You should not waste them.

I don't startscum. I wanted a discussion of why some items were better than others , and it's necessary to specify a class and a point in time.

Wucad Mu

Gourmand makes playing so much more convenient that I will think of rolling again without it every time I'm about to do something stupid or risky.

Or magical power. It's great for a long time and helps avoid boring kiting, which also reduces stupid risks.

Why would you need a Book of the Dragon on level 1? You can't use any of the good stuff in it for quite some time.

Re: Magical Power -- I agree, this ring greatly increases my low level surivivability when I get it

Re: Wucad Mu -- yes, I didn't include it in the list because it was too obviously better than anything else

Re: Book of the Dragon: You don't need it on level 1. But knowing you have it lets you not worry so much about spell availability when picking gods. It's huge having Bolt of Fire online when you hit lair.

It really boils down to whether you think spell power, spell availability, the food clock, mana points, defenses, ability to Haste, or something else helps a low level DEFE the most.

Ken

Well, I hope to find most of those eventually, but not necessarily on level 1. For example, I get most use out of gourmand when trying to get high-level spells online, not at the start. Similarly, I'd probably spend so much effort to avoid wasting the wand of haste that I'd die. :-)

Possibly the staff as that might prevent my normal bad habits with skill management.
The only time I usually wear magical power now is if it comes with some other property or if it is very early.
Otherwise, beyond the option of a ridiculously overpowered artifact, that early I'd wish for something that lets me deal with things I cannot kill with my main spell-class or lets me escape more easily. Early rPois is useful. A spear of venom or a cool bow is fun. A spellbook with blink and summon imp/butterflies would be pretty neat.

pretty sure wand of hasting is the best of those to find on d1 and it's not even close

(not sure you can actually find one on d1 though)

Early Wand of Invisibility is the best thing for DEFE. It allows to train offense without thinking much about defense

crate wrote:pretty sure wand of hasting is the best of those to find on d1 and it's not even close

(not sure you can actually find one on d1 though)

It may not have been D:1, but I found one by D:3 at the latest in the past week. Of course I got that guy killed in short order by firing it at an ogre or some other relatively nasty early dungeon resident to ID it. But the principle stands.

As a terrible player, I'd probably say the +6 ring of protection. You'd eventually replace it, and it's not as powerful in bursts as the wand of haste, but it's always on and protects you even when you're too stupid to realize you're in danger. Evasion isn't as good because a DEFE will be able to get that more easily by training dodging, so go protection. Also a lot of the other things like a staff of fire or amulet of gourmand are reasonably common finds, most games will have them. Rolling a perfect +6 on the ring is harder.

You'll probably replace it with something better around the time you get your first 1-2 runes, but by then you're well on your way to being unstoppable, so...

I kinda like finding an early ring of wizardry to tell the truth. With DE stats you can start training dodging almost right away.

Are boots of running on the table? How about a robe of resistance, mottled dragon armour, or book of Minor Magic? All of those are pretty great.

I hope for posts like these to be in CYC.

Understanding and leveraging the usefulness of items is a big part of getting better at Crawl.

For example, it is not at all obvious to a beginning or even intermediate player that the Wand of Haste is the best item in this list.

So, I don't see why this thread should be in CYC. Maybe your comment should be, though.

Deciding which item is the best D:1 find is a theoretical exercise. You'd be lucky to find any of them, but you'll never find all of them, and even if you did, they're mostly not exclusive. A discussion around such a topic has the same usefulness as "Who would win in a fight in real life?" That's why it belongs in CYC and not Dungeon Crawling Advice.

minmay wrote:who would when in a fight irl a wand of hasting or a amulet of gourmand

Batman.

minmay wrote:who would when in a fight irl a wand of hasting or a amulet of gourmand

One with Wand of Invisibility

dassem wrote:
minmay wrote:who would when in a fight irl a wand of hasting or a amulet of gourmand

Batman.

Oh come on, that is not very realistic. Batman doesn't use magic.

BlackSheep wrote:Deciding which item is the best D:1 find is a theoretical exercise. You'd be lucky to find any of them, but you'll never find all of them, and even if you did, they're mostly not exclusive. A discussion around such a topic has the same usefulness as "Who would win in a fight in real life?" That's why it belongs in CYC and not Dungeon Crawling Advice.

The question may not be properly formulated or clear or even be the right question but it was an honest attempt to get a discussion to learn more about crawl. The discussion on this may belong in CYC but the question was valid based on intent.

btw, for a starting mage I would choose the magical power ring or the Gourmand amulet. I can worry about Haste if and when I get to a place where I need it. Using haste to escape from snake seems silly and wasteful.

The content of your second paragraph throws that of your first into sharp relief.

BlackSheep wrote:The content of your second paragraph throws that of your first into sharp relief.

Indeed? The first was a meta comment, the second on topic even if you don't agree with the topic. I am not a top player, so what? How does that reflect in any meaningful way on the first comment? IF this discussion bothers you so much, why not move it to CYC? I presume that is possible. Otherwise why not try and stay in the discussion rather than trying to be witty/condescending? You can be witty and condescending over in CYC, in the advice forum you could try and be nice (and witty)?

I advise you to take the advice of the more experienced players and posters about the content of the thread. You're defending this concept with GDD-level stubbornness.

BlackSheep wrote:I advise you to take the advice of the more experienced players and posters about the content of the thread. You're defending this concept with GDD-level stubbornness.

I am not defending the *concept* of the thread, if you think that you missed the point entirely. However, this meta-discussion certainly does not belong in the advice forum, which is why I originally tried to include at least something on topic in my post. So if you would like to continue it then lets move it to CYC. I bear you no malice, I don't think you intended any. Lets just drop it before someone invokes Godwins law.

The Tavern

You're a DEFE, what do you hope for?

You're a DEFE, what do you hope for?

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