HONe... How?

[bobross419]

Having ascended with a few MiFi, I've been trying to find a melee hybrid that is a bit better at casting. I really like the idea of the HONe, but they seem to be really underpowered midgame. Even with an Exe Axe I was getting torn up due to low AC, poor EV, and no SH. The spells I was able to find didn't help all that much... even Haste. The build is pretty great early game with VampDraining being a great spell for in close, but once I finish up Lair and Orc the HONe really starts to lose steam. I've been rolling them with Oki for Heroism/Finesse goodness, but even with Heroism activated the defensive side of the house is severely lacking.

Any tips on getting this build going a bit better? I've never had much success with 2H, so I'm thinking of switching to Long Blades and finding a nice Orcish Scimitar instead of trying for the big 2H axes. The end goal is to have a solid hybrid that I can skill up faster in Pan for Zig runs... I know it would be a mean customer once I get over the mid-game hump, but so far I haven't been very successful. Would a HOFE or HOEE be a better hybrid to start? Both have a really nice nuke in their starting book that the Ne book is lacking.

Thanks,
Bob

[some12fat2move]

Skill-wise I'd suggest either getting nuke spells online and then training melee, or getting badass in melee and then getting spells online...that is to say, be exclusively one or the other for the early game and then hybridize when you can afford to spare the exp. HOFE and HOEE can work but if you take that path I'd say get the nukes going before anything else.

[nago]

Ne is like a gl who also use some necro spells. Instead of plate you may prefer fda - or mda if you plan to learn bigger spells later.

[cerebovssquire]

I would make some changes to the build. First, you are guaranteed to find great armour (orcish plate) and have good apts, so that decreases Okawaru's appeal somewhat. I would worship Kiku instead, which also solves the issue of weapon gifting, since Kiku's weapons > Okawaru's weapons.
Long blades sounds like a good idea. Axes aren't that great anymore now that their base damage was reduced (cleaving being not very useful, as you still usually want to fight in corridors), and long blades have some of the best one- and two-handers. Also consider maces if you find a good one early, as morningstars were buffed. And if you want to use a shield, long blades and maces are superior by a large margin.

The most important thing, however, is switching to orcish plate/splint (this should be possible around end of Lair, where you start having problems) to solve the AC problem. If you still feel like you need SH afterwards, it isn't a bad choice if you plan on using a pain weapon, but also by no means necessary.

[bobross419]

Thanks for the info guys.

@some1 -- I've been skilling up Nec until I find a good weapon... Usually getting Vamp Drain to 10% -- Usually this is about the time I find a weapon in the school I want anyways -- then skilling melee to MinDelay . I branch out from there depending on what I've found spellbook wise, but still feel like I'm underpowered by mid-game I'm focusing on using the Necro spells as support with a focus on melee already.

@nago -- See comment above, and I've been hoping for some Dragon armor... any Dragon armor, but RNG hasn't been nice on the last few HOes. Found a Troll Hide once which was nice, but usually I'm stuck in Robes/Leather at mid-game I'm still hoping for some xDA though!

@cs -- Thanks for the info. I'll give switching to heavier armor at the end of Lair a try... The low level necro spells lose a lot of their effectiveness at that point... And Kiku would let me keep some minions around as escape fodder.

Again, thanks for the comments guys

[Psieye]

Yeah if you're trying to melee as an orc with light armour for the sake of casting spells, it's not going to go well. By the end of Lair, the only spell you'll really need is animate skeleton and that doesn't need amazingly good success rate either. Your necromancy training will still be useful as you'll have a pain brand by then if you follow cerebovssquire's advice.

[cerebovssquire]

I think Agony and Dispel undead are both extremely useful and realistically castable in orcish plate somewhere around end of Lair/Orc/Dungeon before Vaults. Pretty sure that something like orcish plate + Necromancy 15 + Armour 15 should take care of the failure rate, and give you good pain brand damage.

Also, Vampiric Draining is imo still useful for a very long time after that. If the spell does, say, 10 damage per cast on average (I have no idea how accurate this is), that's still a 20 HP difference per cast, not 10, which is quite decent. Plus, sometimes you have monsters lined up in a corridor so only 1 can attack at once, so you kill some, heal up in the middle, and proceed to kill the rest because your HP are high enough after VD.

[prozacelf]

Also worth noting, just because it wasn't directly mentioned although Psieye implied it, is that the damage from a pain brand scales with your necro skill.

[mikee]

Also, Vampiric Draining is imo still useful for a very long time after that. If the spell does, say, 10 damage per cast on average (I have no idea how accurate this is), that's still a 20 HP difference per cast, not 10, which is quite decent.

That would actually be 15 and not 20.