KoBe

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 02:09 by notid

Hi guys,

I've struggled advancing beyond D6-7 with a variety of race/class combos: SpEn, MiFi, MiBe. I tried a KoBe, and I got pretty far, comparably. I think it was largely luck, because I got a venom dagger on level 1, and a scroll of acquirement, which gave me another venom dagger, highly enchanted. Ultimately, I died from running into a bunch of skeleton warriors. I was fleeing into known territory so that I could fight them one at a time. But I ended up running into a bunch of wights. I berserked, killed a bunch of them, then berserk wore off before I could kill them all.

One common thing I've noticed is that I'm not always aware when the situation is bad. When I can recognize that it is bad, I slow down and try to address the issue. If I don't, I'm surprised to discover that I have died. In this case, I did recognize that it was bad (because berserk wore off). Any tips for me? I was exploring the Lair, briefly, before a hydra came my way. Maybe I would have had been able to take it with my rings, but I didn't want to risk it.

Any thoughts on what I can do to up my game? Thanks!

I'm tempted to play this character again, but I recognize that it was a couple lucky events wich helped me get this far.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.0 (tiles) character file. 14091 Fighty the Nimble (level 12, -2/77 HPs) Began as a Kobold Berserker on May 4, 2013. Was a High Priest of Trog. Slain by a skeletal warrior ... wielding a +0,+0 war axe (19 damage) ... on Level 13 of the Dungeon. The game lasted 01:08:08 (15890 turns). Fighty the Nimble (Kobold Berserker) Turns: 15890, Time: 01:08:08 HP -2/77 AC 7 Str 18 XL: 12 Next: 27% MP 11/11 EV 24 Int 5 God: Trog [*****.] Gold 677 SH 0 Dex 15 Spells: 0 memorised, 11 levels left Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : . t - +5,+1 short sword (venom) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : + b - +1 animal skin Life Prot.: + + . Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : . (no helmet) Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . E - +1 dwarf cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . F - +0 pair of dwarf gloves Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . I - +0 pair of boots Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . X - amulet of Morality {Ward rF+ Str-3 Stlth++ Saprovore : + + . Flight : . B - ring of life protection m - ring of protection from fire @: exhausted, slowed, very slow, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy A: disease resistance, carnivore 3, saprovore 2 a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion You were on level 13 of the Dungeon. You worshipped Trog. Trog was exalted by your worship. You were not hungry. You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 15 of its levels. You collected 676 gold pieces. You spent 19 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +4,+2 elven dagger (quivered) g - a +0,+1 scimitar of flaming p - a +1,+1 dwarven short sword of venom t - a +5,+1 short sword of venom (weapon) H - the cursed +3 blowgun of Causality {speed, rN+ Dex+1 Int+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause slightly less damage. It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+1). It protects you from negative energy. It has a curse placed upon it. O - a +2,+1 dagger of holy wrath Q - a +0,+5 elven scimitar of slicing Armour b - a +1 animal skin (worn) w - a +0 buckler E - a +1 dwarven cloak (worn) F - a +0 pair of dwarven gloves (worn) I - a +0 pair of boots (worn) J - a +0 elven robe Magical devices r - a wand of paralysis (10) {unknown} K - a wand of enslavement (6) {unknown} L - a wand of flame (9) {unknown} M - a wand of draining (8) {unknown} N - a wand of confusion (11) {unknown} T - a wand of hasting (5) {unknown} W - a wand of cold (9) {unknown} Comestibles c - 2 meat rations s - 2 beef jerkies u - 10 cheeses Scrolls d - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon I e - 3 scrolls of curse weapon i - 5 scrolls of remove curse j - 2 scrolls of enchant armour k - 3 scrolls of teleportation o - 4 scrolls of identify v - a scroll of curse jewellery {unknown} y - a scroll of fear z - 3 scrolls of recharging {unknown} D - a scroll of immolation U - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II Jewellery l - a cursed -5 ring of evasion {unknown} m - a ring of protection from fire (left hand) x - an uncursed ring of teleport control B - a ring of life protection (right hand) P - an uncursed amulet of rage {unknown} X - the amulet of Morality (around neck) {Ward rF+ Str-3 Stlth++} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts) [amulet of warding] It affects your strength (-3). It protects you from fire. It makes you much more stealthy. Potions f - a potion of strong poison {unknown} h - a potion of cure mutation {unknown} n - a potion of curing q - a potion of agility A - 2 potions of restore abilities C - a potion of flight {unknown} G - a potion of magic R - a potion of poison {unknown} Skills: + Level 12.5 Fighting - Level 12.0 Short Blades - Level 1.5 Armour - Level 13.3 Dodging + Level 10.0 Stealth You had 11 spell levels left. You didn't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/27) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (0/4) D:9 Lair (1/8) D:10 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4: %+*! Annotations D:13 exclusion: oklob plant Lair:1 2 exclusions, Harold Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You recuperate from illness quickly. You are small and have problems with some larger weapons. You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time. You can eat rotten meat. Message History * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * You hit the skeletal warrior but do no damage. The skeletal warrior is lightly damaged. You hit the skeletal warrior. The skeletal warrior is lightly damaged. You are no longer berserk. Trog's vigour flows through your veins. You are exhausted. You feel yourself slow down. You feel better. The skeletal warrior hits you with a war axe! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The skeletal warrior hits you with a hand axe. * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * You feel better. The skeletal warrior closely misses you. The skeletal warrior completely misses you. The skeletal warrior closely misses you. The skeletal warrior misses you. The skeletal warrior hits you with a war axe! You die... ..............##..........## ..................^.........# ....................##..##..# ..................)..##..# ## .........................##. P..............[............ #.........................# ...........................# ........................##..# ......................####.... ....................##.....# ....................##.....# ................@....#.##### ~..............zz.....<.## ~~............).)..#.....#### 8~.............)#..#.........# ~..........##..##.........### .......#...##..##........## .......#..........##.....# .#.#.......##..#.####..## #.##.....#######.# #### #.....# ## ...##. You could see 2 skeletal warriors. Vanquished Creatures Erica (D:11) 2 hill giants A skeletal warrior (D:13) The ghost of Fighty the Cleaver, an experienced MiFi of Okawaru (D:5) 2 cyclopes (D:11) 2 hill giant zombies A feature mimic (D:10) A troll (D:12) Grinder (D:6) A komodo dragon (D:11) A blink frog (Lair:1) 2 basilisks 7 yaks A hungry ghost (D:7) 2 hippogriffs 4 wyverns A yaktaur zombie (D:12) The ghost of Fighty the Cutter, an average KoBe of Trog (D:3) 2 manticores (D:11) Menkaure (D:6) 6 orc warriors 2 mottled dragons An ice beast (D:5) A hippogriff zombie (D:5) A yak zombie (D:12) An ogre (D:7) 5 centaurs A human (D:12) 2 sky beasts A troll skeleton (D:12) 2 phantoms 2 big kobolds 2 water moccasins Duvessa (D:6) 2 giant frog skeletons 4 giant frogs A two-headed ogre skeleton (D:10) 4 killer bees (D:13) The ghost of Fighty the Chopper, a weakling MiFi (D:4) 6 wights 2 goliath beetles 3 shadows A crocodile skeleton (D:9) Dowan (D:6) 7 crimson imps 8 orc priests 4 hounds 2 iguanas 4 scorpions A hound zombie (D:7) 11 orc wizards 8 worker ants A worker ant zombie (D:10) 2 sheep (D:12) Ijyb (D:6) Jessica (D:3) A goliath beetle zombie (D:11) 16 adders A giant centipede (D:11) An inept feature mimic (D:7) 5 worms 4 giant eyeballs An ooze (D:1) 61 orcs 12 bats 4 giant cockroaches 12 hobgoblins 16 jackals 17 kobolds 4 quokkas 5 giant newts 12 goblins A hobgoblin zombie (D:5) A jackal skeleton (D:4) An orc skeleton (D:4) 11 rats 2 ballistomycetes (D:11) 326 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) An orc warrior (D:9) 2 orc wizards (D:9) 3 orcs A hobgoblin (D:11) A jackal (D:1) A giant spore (D:11) 9 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 335 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Fighty, the Kobold Berserker, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 14/14 MP: 0/0 207 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 1/19 MP: 1/1 595 | D:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades 937 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 18/24 MP: 2/2 1329 | D:2 | Acquired Trog's second power 1503 | D:2 | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades 1503 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/28 MP: 3/3 2269 | D:3 | Noticed Jessica 2277 | D:3 | Killed Jessica 2364 | D:3 | Reached skill level 7 in Short Blades 2364 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/33 MP: 4/4 2587 | D:3 | Noticed Fighty's ghost (average KoBe) 2615 | D:3 | Killed Fighty's ghost 2615 | D:3 | Reached skill level 8 in Short Blades 2615 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 38/38 MP: 5/5 2802 | D:3 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 2975 | D:3 | Reached skill level 9 in Short Blades 3488 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 3623 | D:4 | Found Faog's General Store. 3656 | D:4 | Acquired Trog's third power 3686 | D:4 | Noticed Fighty's ghost (weakling MiFi) 3716 | D:4 | Killed Fighty's ghost 3716 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 42/42 MP: 6/6 3742 | D:4 | Found Ablaghes' Distillery. 3856 | D:4 | Found Byreij's Food Shop. 3937 | D:4 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 4168 | D:4 | Found Awuopp's Book Shoppe. 4235 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 4245 | D:5 | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades 4284 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 4290 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns 4293 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 4375 | D:5 | Noticed Fighty's ghost (experienced MiFi) 4758 | D:5 | Killed Fighty's ghost 4758 | D:5 | Reached skill level 12 in Short Blades 4758 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 42/48 MP: 7/7 5556 | D:4 | Bought a +0 pair of dwarven gloves for 19 gold pieces 5654 | D:6 | Noticed Grinder 5658 | D:6 | Paralysed by Grinder for 4 turns 5673 | D:6 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 5676 | D:6 | Killed Grinder 5676 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 39/53 MP: 8/8 5835 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 5928 | D:6 | Noticed Ijyb 5961 | D:6 | Killed Ijyb 6015 | D:6 | Noticed Dowan 6087 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 6126 | D:7 | Noticed a hill giant 6133 | D:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth 6426 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6986 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 7045 | D:6 | Noticed Duvessa 7053 | D:6 | Killed Duvessa 7073 | D:6 | Killed Dowan 7271 | D:6 | Noticed Menkaure 7280 | D:6 | Killed Menkaure 8071 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth 8167 | D:8 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 8461 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 50/60 MP: 9/9 9234 | D:9 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 9974 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 10013 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 10013 | D:10 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 10042 | D:10 | Killed a door mimic 10189 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 10208 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 10218 | D:10 | Received a gift from Trog 10263 | D:10 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns 10467 | D:10 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 10884 | D:11 | Noticed Erica 11200 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 11244 | Lair:1 | Noticed Harold 11313 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 11313 | Lair:1 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 14/68 MP: 10/10 11586 | D:11 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns 11593 | D:11 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 11765 | D:11 | Noticed a cyclops 11791 | D:11 | Killed a cyclops 11791 | D:11 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 12496 | D:11 | Killed Erica 12721 | Lair:1 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 12751 | Lair:1 | Got a slimy zirconium amulet 12864 | D:7 | Killed a hill giant 12906 | Temple | Identified the amulet of Morality {Ward rF+ Str-3 Stlth++} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts) 12934 | Temple | Identified a scroll of acquirement 12955 | Temple | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 4 turns 13764 | D:11 | Noticed a cyclops 13783 | D:11 | Killed a cyclops 13783 | D:11 | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging 14546 | D:12 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 76/76 MP: 11/11 15282 | D:13 | Got a bloodstained blowgun 15283 | D:13 | Identified the cursed +3 blowgun of Causality {speed, rN+ Dex+1 Int+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 15830 | D:13 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 15833 | D:13 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 15835 | D:13 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 15876 | D:13 | Killed a skeletal warrior 15879 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth 15890 | D:13 | Slain by a skeletal warrior Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Short sword | 114 | 188 | 532 | 1201 || 2035 Throw: Dagger | | | 1 | 1 || 2 Invok: Berserk | 2 | 6 | 16 | 29 || 53 Burn Spellbooks | | | 2 | 1 || 3 Trog's Hand | | | 1 | || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | | 1 || 1 Use: Potion | | | 5 | 14 || 19 Scroll | | | 4 | 21 || 25 Stab: Sleeping | | 1 | 4 | 14 || 19 Distracted | | | | 1 || 1 Fleeing | | | | 1 || 1

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 02:19 by giygas

Welcome to the forum!

Short swords are not a good choice for melee, even if you find a good one; you should only use them regularly if you plan on playing a stabbing build. The short sword weapon class is the weakest in the game.

I have the same problem with telling whether a situation is dangerous or not. The trick is to assume every situation is potentially dangerous, and play with extreme caution. This doesn't mean you need to constantly be zerking, but always have an escape route in mind. Alternatively, if you are playing a skald, or other type of warrior mage, then you should buff before almost any battle, just in case, so you don't waste turns casting buffs.

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 02:34 by notid

There's some pretty severe limitations on weapon choices for Kobold. Some of the guides I read recommended short blades -- what do you recommend?

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 02:59 by giygas

notid wrote:There's some pretty severe limitations on weapon choices for Kobold. Some of the guides I read recommended short blades -- what do you recommend?

A sabre is OK, and a quick blade is great, if short blades are your thing.
Use a sabre once you find one. Doesn't really matter if you have a +foo +foo short blade of fooing, ditch it.

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 17:31 by raksa

Hello. I've just tried a couple KoBe's and got one going. I think survival is really down to how much of a coward you're being. Even after I got lucky with some rings of +Dex and +EV, I was still very cautious and took care to pull mobs in as little groups as I could, and then finish them with berserking and going upstairs to recuperate. Against hard enemies Brothers in Arms is invaluable - a couple trolls can take out quite tough enemies in just a few short turns. Suddenly I found a Robe of Night with +Invis and ++Stealth that changed the Berserker into a sneaking assassin that made the base for my late game approach, as Stabbing got removed and I can just reap the benefits of my earlier Short Blade and Stealth training. I quickly got to XL 27 and have been carefully clearing out the lower dungeon and the branches. I'm somewhat happy with the setup, going in all sneaky and stabby and having the EV-based Berserker class as a backup (don't even need to switch any equipment around) if things start to get ugly. For the last few levels of the dungeon I didn't really explore anything without Invis and Fly active.

I'd have to say that I got lucky with the RNG several times. There was an early +0, +7 ring of slaying, some enchanted anti-magic quickblades from Trog (courtesy of an amulet of faith found early on), and some pretty tight spots with the uniques. Not to mention the robe that lets me stab everything in their sleep. Progress would have definitely been much slower without the robe, at least. I'm currently at 1 rune from Snake, Swamp is cleared except for the Lernaean Hydra guarding the rune, Vault:5 didn't feel too good and D:27 has similar issues. The third branch is Slime and I haven't been to the last floor yet.

Sunday, 5th May 2013, 23:53 by rcnr

My understanding is that because berserk punishes you badly if you don't use it correctly, instead of using it to give you a fighting chance in a battle you can't handle, you should instead use it to ensure victory if the battle is a little iffy. In the early game this is most battles, but later on when you have more options, it's not nearly as useful.

Much better players than I advise that Brothers in Arms should replace Berserk in battles you are hesitant about, because you have the option to use an escape tool at any time, along with the distance from enemies that any summon allows.

Monday, 6th May 2013, 03:05 by some12fat2move

notid wrote:Any tips for me? I was exploring the Lair, briefly, before a hydra came my way. Maybe I would have had been able to take it with my rings, but I didn't want to risk it.

Brothers in Arms. Any time you're questioning whether you can handle the situation, Brothers in Arms.

Monday, 6th May 2013, 04:11 by crate

make sure your next move after you see an enemy is to move away from the enemy

this is almost always the correct thing to do

Monday, 6th May 2013, 06:04 by nago

Thanked inadvertently

Wednesday, 8th May 2013, 16:05 by notid

Thanks guys. This has helped a lot. I've now cleared the lair and the orcish mines.

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