New to game, need counselling.

[Sorted]

OK, I played a simple dungeon game years and years ago and thought I would look on the net for something nice and simple. Unfortunately I found DCSS. Not only is it insanely addictive, it is extremely difficult and unforgiving to play.

I started out as a HEHU of Trog. Played that a bit, and learned a few things (learned always means "died"), one is that you can't shoot a bow when your beserk. OK, that was one minor drawback, but I didn't know how to use magic and I seemed to be going forward OK as my major problem was running out of arrows. I finally got a good char going and got to lvl 15 and went into Swamp. I had full ****** on Trog and was doing pretty good. A +9 +9 Longbow of flame from Trog, consistent gifts and ammo. Unfortunately I learned that Swamp 5 doesn't come after Swamp 4, easily dispatched. At that point I went and found this site and read up on some advice, this was about a month ago. I decided to play a DECJ for a bit because I had no idea how magic worked and thought I better get the hang of it.

- several hundreds of deaths later-

OK, I know alot more about magic, unfortunately my main claim to fame in this game is my ability to die in various ways, so I to this date have only managed to get one character past my humble HEHU. Here is what I have learned.

At first I was playing as a DEWI and raising my spells with the expectation that fire spellbooks would magically appear at my feet when I needed them. Of course, this game is a real ***** when it comes to giving spell books so I eventually learned that I should focus on using what I have and not project out to receive a certain spell or spell class.

My highest run ever was with a DEFE, but even though it has sticky flame and fireball, my few good runs have all ended the same way. My flat footed glass cannon runs out of MP and dies.

Even though I have died hundreds of times, two really stick out, they make me just want to smash my computer screen. I am doing good with a DEWI. I got one spell book, and it had Controlled Blink. I went to about lvl 11 in the dungeon, but couldn't find any more spell books and magic dart was becoming completely innefective. So I went back to Lair in an attempt to plunge all the way to the bottom in hopes of finding a book. My backup plan was to simply find things to kill until Vehement started gifting me books. This Controlled Teleport spell was the most awesome spell I ever got. Even though I was underpowered only having my magic dart, I could run from anything. So I descend the lair, and run into a Black Mamba. I pull back as it hadn't noticed me and summon ten or so imps. Send them to the Black Mamba and then planned on sitting back and scoring a kill. A spiny frog then showed up on screen and I figured I could take out the Spiny Frog while the imps took out the Black Mamba. (Of note, I believe this is the game where I also had a ring and staff that gave me extra mp, so I was walking around with 51 mp at the time). THE FRICKIN FROG X2 HITS ME AND IMY SQUISHY MAGE GOES FROM FULL HEALTH TO NEAR DEATH. OK, no big deal. I take a few breaths, assess the situation, and calmly and cooly C. Blink to the stairs. And then I hit the go down the stairs button ">", but forget to push shift, so I really hit ".", so I gave the frog a free turn and it killed me. That was a hard death to get over. Not to mention the fact that I was supposed to be going up the stairs. I learned from that experience to be alot more aware when I go up and down stairs of which buttons I push.

The second death that really, really, really, bothers me happened this morning. I get an amulet of gourmond on level one of the dungeon (possibly lvl 2, but real early), and from then on the game has it out for me. Bound and determined to do me in. A few notable instances. I believe it was lvl 6 of the dungeon, I go down the stairs to lvl 6 and low and behold, Duvella and her brother, and ijyb the goblin (I know I'm spelling them wrong, sorry). Three named characters that I can handle seperately,but together with the orc hoard let by the green dress orc meant things were going to go south quick. Fortunately there was a down stairs right by me and I was able to escape by the skin of my teeth. I decided to skip lvl six, but I always hate skipping levels because you never know where the temple is. I am searching lvl 7 and hit a tele trap right into a room of wights. Wights on lvl 7? The game had it in for me. I didn't want to blink because that was a random crap shoot that would probably get me killed, but I figured if I made a run for it, I could probably get to the corridor. I made my run and of course the wight closest had a runed sword and took 2/3 of my damage in one swipe as I made it to the corridor. I figured my only chance of escape was to summon an imp, hope it appeared on the correct side and then swap place. It worked, and I got my butt moving out of there and didn't look back. A stair going up was nearby so I took and magic mapped lvl 6, and sure enough the temple was there, but fortunately close by. If the temple wasn't there I was going to simply bypass that lvl for now. Of course keeping in theme with this particular run, I got Vehemut, and when I came out a centaur is there. Sniper centaur and his friends. I guess Repel Missles only works unless you really need it too. Thwunk, thwunk, thwunk. I was a practice target. I kept confusing him with metamephic cloud while dealing with his buddies, and after three trips down to the temple to restore my hp I finally killed the centaur. Every single arrow it shot at me hit home. Anyways, here comes Duvessa, the battle is going ok, I have some imps summoned, but she manages to hit me and poisons me. I drop down into the temple for refuge and my by myself with probably 15 or 20 hp. So I, uhhhh, sit there and push the damn "." key until I get to 2 hp. You know, cure potions just aren't that damned valuable. Anyways, instead of drinking my curing potion, I bump the autoexplore button. I guess that is what I hit. I hit something because my character moved away from the stairs and succumbed to poison. So apparently, I can't get anywhere in this game because I am stupid.

OK, enough venting. Here are some questions. I remember the time I went to the Super Market for an item, I forget what it is now, and I searched every single aisle in that store twice for that item. Finally I asked a young stocker girl where that item was. She gave me a puzzled look and pointed behind me, and I swear, the entire aisle had only this one item on it, there where huge signs advertising this product. I felt pretty dumb. That is kind of how I feel here, I have been reading and reading and reading and feel like these answers should all be here, but I can't seem to find them. So here it goes.

I have decided to win the game with a Deep Elf Magic User. I have been using the Wizard because even though it is weak in attack, it is more flexible in surviving with blink, call imp, memphic cloud, and conjure flame. I like DEFE, but even though I have sticky flame I feel like a flat-footed glass cannon with no plan B. As I think I said earlier, I at first would play a DEWZ and just assume I would be getting fire spells and would spend my skill points accordingly. Now I build up what I have on hand, so every build is a bit different. Other than sheer stupidity, one problem I run into is it seems every time I do manage to get a few levels I don't get any spell books, or if I do get one, it doesn't have an attack spell. So I end up D:11 or D:12 with Magic Dart, or deep in Lair with magic dart. That seems to be how far I can get into the game before Magic Dart becomes completely ineffective.

I looked on the knowledgebot a bit ago and it said magic dart is 1d8 damage. is there a place that lists what kind of damage each spell does? I have been thinking of grabbing a weapon if I don't find a suitable replacement spell, but am not sure which weapon trees are good, or if they all are.

If I find a sling of frost is it worth training?
Should i train throwing and toss javelins?
How do I find out what kind of damage these things do? How much damage does an arrow do? a sling has a base damage of 0, how much damage is that stone doing?
Does low str. matter much to damage? I haven't really trained melee weapons as a mage (or ranged for that matter, I just use magic dart til I get snuffed out) because getting close to things always seems to end badly for me.

Here has been my general strategy so far.
Manual train skills, start with spellcasting and conjouring.
get magic dart to max ######, 1% fail, and no hunger.
Then turn off spellcasting and conjouring and train translocations and summonings.
Train summon imps and blink til 1% fail and no hunger
turn those off and train conjouring, fire, poison, and air, and charms
Do this until repel missile, conjure flames, and metamorphic cloud are 1% and no hunger

I never memorize slow, maybe I should. I generally use blink and summon imps to get out of binds. The games where I have memorized slow I never use it. Maybe I should try it and see if it has some value in my game.

Once i have all my beginning skills memorized if I haven't found any spell books then I start to raise fighting. This is a recent change because I am getting tired of getting squished so easily. At this point in the game I am waiting or hoping for something better to come along than magic dart. If something comes along I start to train that.

Any advice is welcome. I am thinking of putting weapon training somewhere in here if I don't find a spell book.What do you recommend? Should I just jack the first bow I take of a centaur and get bows to lvl 12? Is that a good strategy or a waste of SP?

A couple other random questions. One thread someone talked about taking crazy ulufs staff and getting banished to the abyss, becoming skilled there and when you get back to the dungeon you will be well prepared to move on. The Abyss has always been a death monster to me. Is there some magical formula for surviving that thing low level?

Noise. If I throw a fireball into a large room, where does the sound emanate from? Me? the explosion point? The entire path? Is it different for different attacks. If I shot a lighting bolt into a room, does the sound vibrate along the entire path?

Is the game coded to drop a corpse less (never) often when your hungry or is it just my imagination (reality)?

Thank you.

[Lafaros]

As a wizard, something you might be underestimating is Conjure Flame. It is a very powerful attack spell, actually, and can really carry you through Lair! Many nasty beasts like hydras, death yaks, and more will walk right through the flames, taking massive damage. When they're really hurt, they'll flee - sometimes back through the flames! It takes some thinking and maneuvering, but if you put a line of them in a corridor, you can do some serious damage. The wizard spell book can get you through Lair... though it takes a bit of practice, and you really have to use every spell.

[prozacelf]

Have you been using a god? From the way it sounds like you're wanting to go, you probably want to hitch up with Vehumet. Although almost any god (except Chei) is better than none most of the time.

I believe spell noise generates from where the spell hits, not your position, but either way it will get alert monsters into your LOS, which means they will see and pursue you. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here....

I for one don't especially care for the wizard starting book, but Call Imp and Blink can take you a very long way as long as you don't get too overconfident, and they're two of the best spells you can have in the early to mid game.

It also sounds like you're spreading your skills a little thin. More specific questions would probably help get you better answers. Next time you get a character you're happy with, post a dump (using #) in the YAVP forum and you'll probably get better advice.

[tcjsavannah]

I hereby propose that orc priests must be referred to as 'green dress orcs' from now on.

[Sandman25]

For Fireball most noise comes from the explosion, but there is also some noise in spellcaster position. It sounds like you have not found wiki, it has detailed information for spells damage/noise/power: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Fireball Casting noise 5, Spell noise 15.
I think training Dodging for DE can help more than early fighting.

[crate]

THE FRICKIN FROG X2 HITS ME AND IMY SQUISHY MAGE GOES FROM FULL HEALTH TO NEAR DEATH.

Well, it is the second-most-dangerous enemy you are likely to encounter in lair for many characters (the most dangerous being the black mamba you were also fighting at the same time). Treating a spiny frog as something other than very dangerous can lead to bad things.

I go down the stairs to lvl 6 and low and behold, Duvella and her brother, and ijyb the goblin (I know I'm spelling them wrong, sorry). Three named characters that I can handle seperately,but together with the orc hoard let by the green dress orc meant things were going to go south quick. Fortunately there was a down stairs right by me

Is there a reason you could not go back up stairs? This is obviously generally much safer.

My flat footed glass cannon runs out of MP and dies.

Most likely you are fighting in bad positions or fighting too many enemies at once (or likely both). If you are careful about where and what you fight it is usually pretty easy to never run out of MP (past about d:3 anyway), though doing this can be tedious. In general when you see an enemy the first thing you should do is take one step backward so that the enemy has to move toward you and so you are heading back into areas that you know were safe some time ago (and are most likely still safe). If you want to be safer you can often retreat even further before actually trying to kill whatever saw you ... it is a tradeoff between real-time and the safety of your character.

If you want to improve I suggest you assume that every single time you die it is because you made a tactical mistake (you fought in the wrong place, you fought the wrong enemy, you fought in the wrong manner, etc.). This will be true as the immediate cause of death for the vast majority of your deaths--even ones where strategic mistakes (skill training, equipment, god choice, etc.) made your character weaker. If you can correctly identify these tactical mistakes and not repeat them you will become a much better player.

[prozacelf]

THE FRICKIN FROG X2 HITS ME AND IMY SQUISHY MAGE GOES FROM FULL HEALTH TO NEAR DEATH.

Well, it is the second-most-dangerous enemy you are likely to encounter in lair for many characters (the most dangerous being the black mamba you were also fighting at the same time). Treating a spiny frog as something other than very dangerous can lead to bad things.

Heehee....the first several time I made it to Lair, I was using either SpEn or VpEn. I had no idea how deadly Spiny Frogs could be till I got murdered by one heading back to my stash. I make the same dumb mistake with a different monster all the time now, but I know not to treat the Spiny Frog lightly.

[Sandman25]

Spiny Frog was that monster who changed my behavour regarding new monster appearance. I did not reference wiki/knowledge bots before dying to the frog, it was so similar to Giant Frog, I was really shocked when it killed my Mi... I still confuse the frogs sometimes

[Psieye]

It sounds like you're playing v0.11 - you may want to try out v0.12 which is now undergoing finalisation stability checks before being released. We've long had v0.12 available while it was under development and it's stable now as far as I'm concerned. Reason for this is newVehumet in v0.12 is likely going to be the key you're looking for. You WILL get upgrades to your nukes in a timely manner so that by the time you're in Lair you have something to replace the obsolete Magic Dart. WHICH spell will be that upgrade will be unknown and you may be crying at being spoilt for choice.

Anyway, for v0.11 I recommend 2 directions for a DEWz to guarantee they don't die from "failure to keep up with the arms race": Bows (to Lv 4) or Kiku. If Bows, you just put down conj flame in a corridor and shoot away. The advanced conj flame tactic is combining it with meph to trick the AI into walking in the fire and imp to tank the mob while it stands in the flame. With Kiku, you are guaranteed to have some extra options by the time Magic Dart is obsolete and with corpse delivery, you don't even have to worry about killing something first before you can use them. Either way, you get past Lair's "how is your damage output?" check and you should have found some books with attack spells in them by then.

Finally, to give you some perspective of how classes in crawl are merely starting suggestions and not absolutes that box you in, this is a Wz who picked Oka at the Temple.

[Sorted]

Thank you for the responses, especially the link to the crawl wiki, that is what I was looking for. I will spend some time there and learn a bit more about the game.

To answer some of the other responses. I do use conjure flame and met cloud. I need to assess if I use it enough though. I have been working hard to slow down and play each battle a bit safer. Drop a conj flame when a baddie comes even though I think I am going to be able to kill it with magic dart by the time it gets to me. I fought an elephant in Lair and went three rounds with it with Magic Dart unable to kill it. I finally had to resort to luring it into a cooridor and flaming it to death.

I do choose a God. Vehemut. That is one of my major points of knowing I am on my way to a good character.

On the floor when I went down with Ijib, Duvessa and Duwan (I think thats his name), they weren't there right when I walked down to the floor. I explored a tiny bit, turned a corner, and bam it was like a sick Sigmund impersonation, the down stairs was the closest thing, and although I am always wary of going in an unexplored stair for escape, that was my only choice.

Thanks for the advice of taking a step back every time I see a monster, I am going to try that for a bit and see what happens. I feel like I am so close to actually "getting" this game, and maybe not winning it, but at least getting past level 15 and lair, but I just haven't been able to do it yet. One problem I have is I have horrible lapses in consistency. Making good decisions, surviving tough events easily that before would have killed me, using all my options, and then I get into combat with one regular orc warrior at melee range (didn't bother to conj flame and keep him at a distance, don't need to summon imps, no need to think about using blink) and as I blast him with magic dart he hits me, I get down to low yellow but he has probably one or two hp left, and I mentally ask myself without really thinking about it "am I really going to die to this orc that I usually kill in two hits?" while I continue to blast away with magic dart and sure enough I die. Then I sit back and think that I had so many options of surviving that fight it wasn't funny. All that good work down the drain in one brilliant moment of stupidity. Now that is just one example of hundreds, and I did learn from it.

The other problem I have is these named monsters sometimes turn into Super Man. I can usually easily kill Jessica, even Sigmund dies quickly to my Wizard because I can just summon imps on him. Yesterday Jessica turns into Wonderwoman and trashes me. I couldn't believe that just happened.

One tactical or strategical mistake that I keep making, or maybe it could be called a mindset problem. I have a hard time leaving any level or any monster, especially named monster, behind. If there is one black dot left on a level I go through the game just knowing that my elusive spellbook is right there on that one tile. I want to get every pile of gold. I'm just greedy.

I have only been playing the game for a month, so I know that I haven't experienced everything it has to offer. I mean, I've only gotten to level 15 at best. I haven't used all the Gods. Trog and Vehemut are the only ones I am familiar with. I found a Jaira altar once and tried her, but that kind of sucked. I kept getting mutated and there were slimes everywhere eating all of the loot on the floor. Should I run a few test runs with each of the different Gods to see what there like? My goal right now is to simply get good enough with a particular combination and then win the game. Then maybe try something else. That is why I have stuck with DEWI.

Thanks for the advice about assuming every death is a tactical mistake. I think that is what I have been doing, but I probably need to spend more time on each death and review why exactly I thought I died and what I could have done better. One time I was doing well, I had found a spell book with fireball in it, I was getting my skills up and I ran into a Centaur in the middle of a big room. I panicked and tried to run away, getting gunned down in the attempt. Either that evening or the next evening as I was driving into the driveway the thought suddenly hit me that I didn't have to run away from that Centaur. I could have met cloud him, or simply fireballed him. I could have easily killed that guy. So I am learning that running isn't always the best option.

The other day I met a monster in lair that turns you to stone. I used the Centaur logic, because looking at my surroundings I knew I couldn't run away (I was a DECJ, no blink or imps.) So I went toe to toe with the guy. The end of the battle was awesome because I was down to full red bar health, turned to stone, and he was burning with sticky fire. Pretty good feeling when you win a fight like that.

Anyways, thanks for the help guys, I don't feel so depressed about this game now. I am going to read the wiki, clear my thoughts, and try again. Is there a tutorial on how to post my char dump here? When I get a good char going I will show it to you.

[Galefury]

Be careful about the wiki. The facts on it are often outdated and sometimes plain wrong, and tactical or strategic advice (guides) is very often wrong. Also it frequently emphasizes the wrong things. There is a lot of good information on the wiki, and it is a very useful resource, but don't stop thinking for yourself. If your personal experience contradicts what you read on the wiki it's probably the wiki that is wrong. The knowledge bots are harder to use, and are mostly concerned with the currently developed version instead of the stable version, but they are generally more up to date and more correct. A lot less verbose, though, which can be good or bad.

About your "superman" encounters: crawl is not only highly random in what levels, monsters and items it generates, but also in how much damage attacks do. Sometimes a fight just doesn't go well and you need to retreat. Also sometimes a unique (or other monster) generates with a powerful wand, weapon or armor and is much stronger than usual. Crawl is set up so things can go wrong all the time, even in a usually not very threatening situation. One thing to keep in mind is the speed of enemies. You can simply walk away from slow enemies (most zombies, worms, slugs, beetles, ...), you cant easily walk away from enemies with the same speed as you, and you really should be careful around fast enemies (centaurs, dogs, snakes, frogs, ...).

To post a dump, press # ingame, find your morgue directory, find the dump in there (character name.txt). To post it on the forums, put "code" tags in your post and paste the dump contents in between them. You can customize your dump contents in the options file, but the most useful things are already included by default (except I think 0.11 is missing action counts by default).

[Magipi]

Be careful about the wiki. The facts on it are often outdated and sometimes plain wrong, and tactical or strategic advice (guides) is very often wrong.

This is a very popular myth here, but I have never met a wiki article that qualifies for this. Of course, I have not read all (or even most) of them.

[crate]

Personally I think the most dangerous thing about reading the wiki is it tells you lots of stuff that you don't need to know but might think you do need to know if you read the wiki. The learndb is also guilty of this but to a lesser extent.

[Galefury]

Allegedly it got better. I don't have much reason to go there anymore, but I used it a lot when I was new to crawl, and later had to reassess a lot of that information. Especially that it often makes irrelevant things look important slowed my improvement at crawl down a lot. And even if the quality of the information is better now, I doubt that this has changed. The wiki strives to be inclusive, detailed and verbose, and a lot of information takes far more space and attention than it deserves simply by being included.

At least with the learndb, much of the irrelevant information is easy to recognize. Also, shorter.

[Magipi]

Personally I think the most dangerous thing about reading the wiki is it tells you lots of stuff that you don't need to know but might think you do need to know if you read the wiki. The learndb is also guilty of this but to a lesser extent.

Can you give an example? This is very obscure this way, like a zen koan

[Psieye]

"am I really going to die to this orc that I usually kill in two hits?"

Sounds like you aren't paying attention to what armour those orcs are wearing. Magic Dart is SHIT for damage and any good heavy armour will stand a good chance of negating all the damage per shot. You don't want to be relying on magic dart for long and hence why I suggest you grab v0.12 and play there with newVehumet.

Oh and yes, get used to leaving behind things. Don't bother looking at every blank spot, don't bother killing every enemy (especially the dangerous ones), etc. You always have the option to come back when you're stronger.

Personally I think the most dangerous thing about reading the wiki is it tells you lots of stuff that you don't need to know but might think you do need to know if you read the wiki. The learndb is also guilty of this but to a lesser extent.

Can you give an example? This is very obscure this way, like a zen koan

Like GDR. You DON'T NEED TO KNOW about it. But people read it on the Wiki and then agonise over it when they could have been thinking about important things like positioning.

[battaile]

Be careful about the wiki. The facts on it are often outdated and sometimes plain wrong, and tactical or strategic advice (guides) is very often wrong.

This is a very popular myth here, but I have never met a wiki article that qualifies for this. Of course, I have not read all (or even most) of them.

My experience has been that the reference data is pretty good (provided you are playing the current release and its been out for a while) but the opinions/guides are hit and miss. If you're playing trunk or a beta version, there's going to be a lot of out of date info (by design since it only targets the current release) and you're definitely better off using the bots.

So in today's terms, if you're playing 0.11, have at it, otherwise proceed with caution.

[Sorted]

I downloaded v.12 but haven't installed yet, gonna at least finish my current run. I don't remember who told me to take a step backwards when I see an enemy, but thank you a ton. I think a big tactical problem I have been making is simply engaging the enemy when I see them, or taking steps towards them, and then when I meet a mob or sense danger, I am closer to the action in random settings than I could be. I got a ring of teleport control (2nd time ever) so my blink is really nice right now, but I haven't even been using blink because I haven't been getting into bad situations. I kept feeling like I would be going along and then "get surrounded" by the enemies, but I think this "step back" strategy is going to help me immensely.

Concerning the Wiki, I will take it with a grain of salt, but it has been nice to learn stuff like arrows having a base dmg. of 7, et cetera. There are a lot of simple questions I have about this game, and I think it will answer a bunch of them for me.

[Utis]

Understanding technicalities and figuring out what is significant and what not is also a game, crawl's meta-game, that some people actually enjoy a lot.

What the knowledge bots are missing is related information at a glance -- for instance the Wiki's pages about player races. And detailled discussion -- for instance I found Elynae's guides very helpful.

[danharaj]

You can get detailed discussion by asking questions in ##crawl. There is probably never a time when a good player isn't there and willing to answer questions.

[Isaiadrenaline]

Don't go into that chatroom drunk.

[Sandman25]

Be careful about the wiki. The facts on it are often outdated and sometimes plain wrong, and tactical or strategic advice (guides) is very often wrong.

This is a very popular myth here, but I have never met a wiki article that qualifies for this. Of course, I have not read all (or even most) of them.

Quick example:
Compare http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Giant_eyeball and knowledge bot entry for Giant Eyeball at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots

You will see

  Code:

Even magic resistance will not save you!

at the latter but wiki does not mention it at all which can lead to something like that:

  Code:

178141 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
178153 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
178173 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
178181 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
178189 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
178196 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
178203 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
178251 | Zig:23   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns

[Sandman25]

You DON'T NEED TO KNOW about it. But people read it on the Wiki and then agonise over it when they could have been thinking about important things like positioning.

Well, I read a ticket in mantis about a draconian character killed by dragon-slaying weapon by a single attack (120+ hp). That would not happen if player knew that draconians have 0 GDR and thus monsters can roll maximal damage. Also neither wiki nor knowledge bot mention that +75% is average value for dragon-slaying brand, actual value is in range 0-150% (like for holy). This is very important information which is hidden by some reason.

[Psieye]

See? Awareness that there is GDR is what killed that character. If the player didn't know GDR existed at all - i.e. assumed everyone had 0 GDR - they would have reacted accordingly.

Similar with the variable holy/dragonslaying damage output - the game does not show damage numbers at all for a reason. All you need to know is "this hits really really hard on vulnerable targets" which you can glean from personal experience. You can sit there and calculate "this is the exact maximum damage I can take and therefore this is the exact probability that I'll die in the next hit" but you don't need to know that answer to go 'this could fuck me up bad, I must not take this unnecessary risk'. As your morgue piles up high with deaths, you develop a game sense which needs no hard numbers to do things right. It's understandable players want to speed up the learning curve with spoilers but they can get a distorted game sense as a result.

[Sandman25]

See? Awareness that there is GDR is what killed that character. If the player didn't know GDR existed at all - i.e. assumed everyone had 0 GDR - they would have reacted accordingly.

Experienced players can notice that they never get maximal damage in plate armour, fsim proves it also.
Main reason of that death was 0-150% for dragon slaying, the character got 52 damage from weapon and 74 from dragon slaying.

[Psieye]

More hard numbers. More unnecessary (though very-nice-to-have) knowledge for playing well.

[Sandman25]

More hard numbers. More unnecessary (though very-nice-to-have) knowledge for playing well.

That depends on players guess. I really miss ability to see how much damage I can deal to monsters or get from them especially since there are games which display this type of data (not rogue-like, I have never played other rogue-likes).

[Psieye]

I know the feeling, I always switch on all the damage output data in other games. But not crawl. I've come to cultivate this 'feel' for crawl. There's a number of things that the game ought to make clearer to new players, but damage isn't one of them - a player just needs to know "get weapon skill to min delay then pump fighting to a reasonable point" to get good damage output.

[Sandman25]

I know the feeling, I always switch on all the damage output data in other games. But not crawl. I've come to cultivate this 'feel' for crawl. There's a number of things that the game ought to make clearer to new players, but damage isn't one of them - a player just needs to know "get weapon skill to min delay then pump fighting to a reasonable point" to get good damage output.

I see. Yet the knowledge could affect some decisions. For example, I am still unclear if monster armour is applied to Bolt of Fire/Cold, how likely that Hydra to die to 6 Lightning Bolts. I lost 2 TeAEs to Hydra this way and I am still not sure if I was extremely unlucky both time or just played stupidly (or maybe both). At least the second TeAE tought me that a Hydra can kill you even if you did not have it adjacent when going upstairs.

[crate]

Lightning bolt has very variable damage to begin with, and at low power it also misses a lot so it's even more variable. However a TeAE should never die to a hydra; you have two different methods of being faster than them....

(Monster AC is applied to very nearly everything, just like player AC. Hydrae actually have 0 AC though so that wasn't happening here.)

[Sandman25]

Lightning bolt has very variable damage to begin with, and at low power it also misses a lot so it's even more variable. However a TeAE should never die to a hydra; you have two different methods of being faster than them....

(Monster AC is applied to very nearly everything, just like player AC. Hydrae actually have 0 AC though so that wasn't happening here.)

My point is if I had in-game info like "damage 15-50, average 25, to-hit chance 60%" when targeting Lightning Bolt at Hydra, it could be easier to make good decisions. Dreams, dreams...

My second TeAE had flight, swiftness and went upstairs when there was one space between it and the almost dead hydra. The hydra was lucky to get extra move. Going forward I try to go upstairs when there are 2 spaces between me and dangerous monster who can two-shot me.

[crate]

Well the game doesn't tell you how much HP the hydra has so knowing how much damage you deal is actually not useful.

[Psieye]

I know the feeling, I always switch on all the damage output data in other games. But not crawl. I've come to cultivate this 'feel' for crawl. There's a number of things that the game ought to make clearer to new players, but damage isn't one of them - a player just needs to know "get weapon skill to min delay then pump fighting to a reasonable point" to get good damage output.

I see. Yet the knowledge could affect some decisions. For example, I am still unclear if monster armour is applied to Bolt of Fire/Cold, how likely that Hydra to die to 6 Lightning Bolts. I lost 2 TeAEs to Hydra this way and I am still not sure if I was extremely unlucky both time or just played stupidly (or maybe both). At least the second TeAE tought me that a Hydra can kill you even if you did not have it adjacent when going upstairs.

That's my point regarding speeding up the learning curve: kill off enough AEs and you derive that knowledge about lightning bolt from seeing it tens of times. I most certainly won't hold it against anyone who wants to speed up their learning curve through in-depth knowledge: time is always in short supply in life.

[Sandman25]

Well the game doesn't tell you how much HP the hydra has so knowing how much damage you deal is actually not useful.

It is listed in knowledge bot/wiki but there could be in-game info for Hydrae also like "39hp-104hp", I even think it can be added to moster detailed description. It is much easier to make decisions when you have all relevant data, otherwise the only way to become better player is to play billion games (unless you are professional C++ programmer)

[Sandman25]

I know the feeling, I always switch on all the damage output data in other games. But not crawl. I've come to cultivate this 'feel' for crawl. There's a number of things that the game ought to make clearer to new players, but damage isn't one of them - a player just needs to know "get weapon skill to min delay then pump fighting to a reasonable point" to get good damage output.

I see. Yet the knowledge could affect some decisions. For example, I am still unclear if monster armour is applied to Bolt of Fire/Cold, how likely that Hydra to die to 6 Lightning Bolts. I lost 2 TeAEs to Hydra this way and I am still not sure if I was extremely unlucky both time or just played stupidly (or maybe both). At least the second TeAE tought me that a Hydra can kill you even if you did not have it adjacent when going upstairs.

That's my point regarding speeding up the learning curve: kill off enough AEs and you derive that knowledge about lightning bolt from seeing it tens of times. I most certainly won't hold it against anyone who wants to speed up their learning curve through in-depth knowledge: time is always in short supply in life.

I believe it takes less time to learn something from reading something than from making own experiments which duplicate previous experiments of other people. That's how schools work and science advances

[Psieye]

I believe it takes less time to learn something from reading something than from making own experiments which duplicate previous experiments of other people. That's how schools work and science advances

That is truth yes. But there is a reason why we call this in-depth knowledge 'spoilers'. Entertainment like fiction literature, movies and even sports results - it is a taboo to give away (without prior approval) the end results to these stories to people who haven't consumed them yet. In other words, there is a large amount of enjoyment to be had precisely from 'duplicating the same process that so many others have done in the past' when you know it's being done For Fun, as opposed to For Business or For Life-Saving or For Advancing Science.

You are a theoretician - you like having the model in your head and then testing it out afterwards. Nothing wrong with that, that's how you derive fun from crawl and you most certainly aren't alone in the playerbase. But it's not the only way to derive fun from crawl. A lot of players derive fun by coming up with their own model first, then comparing it with others - i.e. putting the testing upfront.

[Sandman25]

I believe it takes less time to learn something from reading something than from making own experiments which duplicate previous experiments of other people. That's how schools work and science advances

That is truth yes. But there is a reason why we call this in-depth knowledge 'spoilers'. Entertainment like fiction literature, movies and even sports results - it is a taboo to give away (without prior approval) the end results to these stories to people who haven't consumed them yet. In other words, there is a large amount of enjoyment to be had precisely from 'duplicating the same process that so many others have done in the past' when you know it's being done For Fun, as opposed to For Business or For Life-Saving or For Advancing Science.

You are a theoretician - you like having the model in your head and then testing it out afterwards. Nothing wrong with that, that's how you derive fun from crawl and you most certainly aren't alone in the playerbase. But it's not the only way to derive fun from crawl. A lot of players derive fun by coming up with their own model first, then comparing it with others - i.e. putting the testing upfront.

Yes, I agree. What a pity we do not have an option show_numbers = false in settings, it would not destroy fun for new players and could be changed to display accurate numbers for those who want to see them.

[Utis]

... the game does not show damage numbers at all for a reason. All you need to know is "this hits really really hard on vulnerable targets" which you can glean from personal experience. You can sit there and calculate "this is the exact maximum damage I can take and therefore this is the exact probability that I'll die in the next hit" but you don't need to know that answer to go 'this could fuck me up bad, I must not take this unnecessary risk'. As your morgue piles up high with deaths, you develop a game sense which needs no hard numbers to do things right.

I agree: my experience is obviously very limited, but that's definitely how it feels to me (with some, but very few crucial exceptions). And that's part of why Crawl is such a great and well designed game. But again: for some people figuring out the exact probabilities is a very enjoyable metagame.

For instance I have both Fulminant Prism and Fireball memorized on a Conjurer. Now, if I encounter a group of sleepers and both would we good with regard to their blast radius, which one does more damage? The fact that I can't seem to decide this from experience probably means: whatever difference there is, it doesn't really matter.

Nevertheless, I want to know and understand this and a billion of other things for knowledge's sake. If I could compare spell damage in wizard mode, I'd do it. If there was information about Fulminant Prism's damage formula available, I'd do a rough calculation for getting an estimate. I'm not yet at the point where I'd do source diving, but if I know myself a little that's only a matter of time.

You don't need to know such things and crawl is a very well designed game for this fact. But on the other hand, it's also a very well designed game for the fact that you're still facing difficult and interesting decisions even if you do have optimal information.

Are folks here familiar with the so-called "Bartle test"? It's a way to categorise players of online games, which is very popular over in the "Kingdom of Loathing" community. People are different and have very different motivation for playing games. It basically goes like this:

• Diamonds are achievers who want to beat the game by achieving the goals it sets before them and who want to show their skill.
• Hearts are socialisers who enjoy interacting with others and for whom the game is an opportunity to meet people.
• Spades are explorers who want to discover various aspects of the game, understand it and find new tricks to deal with it.
• Clubs are competitors who want to beat other players and be better than them.

I don't think that Crawl is just for the diamonds, you know. For a spade something like GDR is very important, even if he knows exactly that it is not exactly vital information for beating the game. One of the things that I like about the "Kingdom of Loathing" community is that they very consciously deal with the game's different appeal to various player types. (And that 'spading' is treated as a community effort. Which is nice for those spades who are also a little bit of hearts.)

Re wiki: The knowledge bots are great, but they fill a very particular niche. Just compare the entries for Ashenzari. I'm only now discovering the awesomeness that is Ash. I wouldn't have been tempted to explore it, if I had read only the knowledge bot entry. Even if the Wiki page should happen to contain incorrect information (which isn't getting better if people in the know turn their backs to it), it doesn't matter, because what applies to GDR also applies to misinformation: experience will show.

[Lasty]

I fought an elephant in Lair and went three rounds with it with Magic Dart unable to kill it. I finally had to resort to luring it into a cooridor and flaming it to death.
. . .
I get into combat with one regular orc warrior at melee range (didn't bother to conj flame and keep him at a distance, don't need to summon imps, no need to think about using blink) and as I blast him with magic dart he hits me, I get down to low yellow but he has probably one or two hp left, and I mentally ask myself without really thinking about it "am I really going to die to this orc that I usually kill in two hits?" while I continue to blast away with magic dart and sure enough I die.

Here are a few things I think will help you a lot:

1: If you can't kill a monster with Magic Dart in the time it takes for it to cross the screen and reach you, you should almost certainly be killing that creature with Conjure Flame.
2: With the help of Mephitic Cloud, Conjure Flame will kill almost anything you run into between the start of the dungeon and the bottom of Lair. The only exceptions are a) poison-resistant monsters that refuse to walk through fire (who you can just walk away from) and b) poison and fire resistant monsters (who, it turns out, you can also walk away from, or kill with Magic Dart, because they're just Crimson Imps, IIRC).
3: No matter what the morgue files say, the two biggest killers in the game are named Greed and Hubris.

[Sorted]

I don't know how to extract my mourge file, but I have played one run since posting on this forum and it lasted along time before I died a few minutes ago.

The step back advice when I see a monster really did wonders for my game. I see now that I was simply engaging the enemy in whatever terrain we happened to be upon. Now I tend to go to safe spots or stairs when I fight, I played it safe pulling enemies towards the stairs alot, even if they were easy, because I didn't know if there was a pack or not around. This made it much easier for my punchless Wizard.

I learned every spell in the Wizard starting book, didn't use slow once (well, I did once to test it out.) and don't really see a place for it in my game.

I got bow to lvl. 12, but my tactics went so well that I never used the bow and ended up ditching it and the arrows because of weight issues. My magic dart hit 100% of the time, and the arrow attack never felt good to me. If I could have found a decent bow I am sure things would have been different.

As usual I ran into a period where I was underpowered, but was able to tactically fight my way through it and eventually got some other spell books.

I died on lvl 13 of the dungeon to some centaurs. Definitely tactical errors on my part, and I have a better game plan for next time. I have to develop another set of tactics for ranged opponents. Thinking about it, it is something I have struggled with.

I cleared all eight levels of lair. Was going to go Orc mines next but decided to clear lvl 12 of the dungeon first. Unfortunately it was a wide open map and I met a centaur with blink arrows. Had a skirmish and ended up escaping down a level, looking for a different up stair I met the fated centaurs. I should have just summoned a bunch of imps, made sure Repel Missile was always on. I thought I was going to escape as I had a ring of teleport control and I could choose general direction of blink, but I think if your too close to the wall then you get a random blink and it blinked me the wrong way right in the middle of the Centaurs.

I now think that I didn't do a mis click on that game where the spiny frog killed me. I am guessing now that enemies, especially higher level, can move before you? Is it possible I tried to go up the stairs and the frog got the first attack in and killed me, one space separated us when I tried to go up. Thanks for the help guys.

[crate]

Taking stairs takes about 2.5 turns. Spiny frogs are fast, so if there is one one space away from you it almost always (?) will get one attack in as you go upstairs.

[Psieye]

Magic dart is GUARANTEED to hit, always. It's why it's so weak - you get guaranteed hit chance with it.

The arrows aren't amazing but they cost 0 mp. That's the point about them - conj flame lets you shoot 50 of them with impunity, something you can't do with magic dart because you run out of mp.

There are some enemies who do indeed move faster than you. Check monster descriptions, some of them will say "it is fast" - like the adder you face way back in D:2+. Spiny Frogs move fast, hit hard and have poison to demand you kill them fast. Black mamba are more dangerous (albeit rarer) because they move even faster, hit even harder and have even stronger poison.

[mikee]

Re wiki: The knowledge bots are great, but they fill a very particular niche. Just compare the entries for Ashenzari. I'm only now discovering the awesomeness that is Ash. I wouldn't have been tempted to explore it, if I had read only the knowledge bot entry. Even if the Wiki page should happen to contain incorrect information (which isn't getting better if people in the know turn their backs to it), it doesn't matter, because what applies to GDR also applies to misinformation: experience will show.

This type of suggestion comes up a lot, both here and on IRC ("If the wiki's so bad, why don't you just improve it?") I suggest browsing this thread to get at least some kind of context:

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4338

I don't think anyone is avoiding posting on the wiki simply out of apathy or cynicism. I care enough to post detailed and thoughtful advice here; surely I would post on the wiki... yet I don't. The concept of a wiki for a challenging, constantly developing game with non-transparent mechanics is difficult enough to achieve with good oversight and management, and the wiki's approach to either is simply terrible. At least when modifying the learndb I don't need to argue with newbies about why I'm deleting advice to meph Cerebov, whom they've never met.

[dpeg]

Yes, as sad as it sounds, DCSS is probably pacing too fast for a really good, player-made wiki. I begin to appreciate the advantages of being Nethack

[BlackSheep]

I like the wiki for raw numbers and formulas. I imagine updating pages for things like monster stats and spell formulas could be automated so that they'd stay up to date.

[Utis]

Re wiki: The knowledge bots are great, but they fill a very particular niche. Just compare the entries for Ashenzari. I'm only now discovering the awesomeness that is Ash. I wouldn't have been tempted to explore it, if I had read only the knowledge bot entry. Even if the Wiki page should happen to contain incorrect information (which isn't getting better if people in the know turn their backs to it), it doesn't matter, because what applies to GDR also applies to misinformation: experience will show.

This type of suggestion comes up a lot, both here and on IRC ("If the wiki's so bad, why don't you just improve it?") I suggest browsing this thread to get at least some kind of context:

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4338

I don't think anyone is avoiding posting on the wiki simply out of apathy or cynicism. I care enough to post detailed and thoughtful advice here; surely I would post on the wiki... yet I don't. The concept of a wiki for a challenging, constantly developing game with non-transparent mechanics is difficult enough to achieve with good oversight and management, and the wiki's approach to either is simply terrible. At least when modifying the learndb I don't need to argue with newbies about why I'm deleting advice to meph Cerebov, whom they've never met.

Well, "If the wiki's so bad, why don't you just improve it?" would be a rather silly simplification if I had meant that; though I admit, my wording was ambigous. People don't work that way; online communities don't work that way and I'm not a boy scout.

I went ahead and read that thread in its entirety (albeit somewhat quickly). It seems to me that there are two different concerns: 1) that information about facts of game mechanics(stats, formulas, numbers) might be wrong or outdated. And 2) that either some or the majority of the guides and other strategical or tactical advice is wrong or harmful.

I meant to adress (1). My main points being that there are some types of information for which the knowledge database is not well suited, due to its chatbot nature -- like the wiki pages about the gods. And that a little bit of outdatedness or misinformation about game mechanics isn't very harmful in the long run. My usual routine by now is: I check the knowledge database first; if that doesn't provide the information I'm looking for, I check the Wiki. If I'm still in doubt, I ask in the forum. (And risk being told "A beginner shouldn't worry about that, go play a MiBe." But that's okay, since it's probably the right advice for most beginners.)

(2) Is another matter. It seems to me that at least one part of the debate in that other thread is about whether the bad guides should be deleted or whether they should be allowed to coexist with better guides. To be frank, it seems to be a little bit of a mix between a very valid concern for teaching beginners and a case of http://xkcd.com/386/

For me, as a beginner who is slowly, slowly getting a grasp of this game, matters look a bit different. I owe a lot to Elynae's guides (who, as I'm learning now, is also cerebovsquire). In fact, I owe my first victory to his FE guide (and to the advice on the forum, but first I had to get to that point). This is not just about the hard facts like: 'optimal skill strategy is raising this and that skill in that order". It's about understanding the reasons why this is so, what your basic tactics are and what your respective strategical goals are in different parts of the game.

You and others are doing a tremendous job in the forums. However, neither are you always inclined to be detailled and verbose (especially if the same things come up again and again), nor could this reasonably be expected from anyone. And due to the nature of the forums, these treasures of advice tend to be scattered and buried among various threads. So, I find myself checking even threads whose topics don't interest me at all for the off chance that someone happens to mention something that is valuable to me. I'm not complaining, though, I'm doing fine. It just pains the spade in me that this gold might be lost in the depths of the forums. Personally I think that not having guides like Elynae's available somewhere is too high an opportunity cost for not tolerating bad guides. YMMV.

[battaile]

You can get detailed discussion by asking questions in ##crawl. There is probably never a time when a good player isn't there and willing to answer questions.

Yeah, 100% this, not only are there usually a lot of people to answer questions, but Sequell is great for querying old morgue files amongst other things, which IMO can be an excellent resource for spell/skill/gear questions.

[mikee]

Even though the criticisms of the wiki, like in the thread I linked, most often mention guides, when I say the wiki is bad I do not even mean guides.

I just picked three spells that the wiki has pages on and browsed them: freeze, sandblast, and necromutation. In summary, they each start out fine, telling you exactly what the spell does. However, each page has a section describing how you should think about this spell, which is sometimes questionable and often ambiguous. "Freeze is excellent for killing out of depth frogs"; "Don't use freeze on hydras" - why is this here? It's super random and not true for everyone. "Don't use stones to sandblast goblins. You need to save the stones for hydras." "Don't use necromutation against foes with torment/bolt of draining and dispel undead. Torment and bolt of draining are easier to resist, so pack some negative resistance to use instead."

Amusingly, the 'spade' portion of these entries that give the valuable, non-ambiguous information, are either paraphrases or direct copy/pastes from the learndb entry for those spells. The only contribution I can really see the wiki making is consolidating a few different learndb entries in the case of necromutation, while otherwise telling you how to think in a way that might have been worse than your own thinking anyway.

[Sorted]

OK, I installed the new version .12 and I love it. I have been surviving better, so each run takes a few hours now. I played a DEWZ a few times. Kept dying, underpowered, and the dungeon seems more dangerous. Maybe I can just get further? I was actually doing pretty good with my first wiz, and I got dazzling spray gifted from Vehumet, unfortunately I decided to see if dazzling spray would protect me from a 7 headed hydra and it didnt.

So after a few more unsuccessful DEWZ runs I decided to try the new Conjurer for my 4th run and I love it. I can't really run from anything so its pick your position and then blast away. I haven't really used the 2nd skill, the javelin one, but everything else is awesome. The prism cannon is awesome, dazzling spray is very nice, and I used the landmine skill to kill some oklob plants among other things.

Please feel free to give me some advice. I cleared lair to lvl 8, went to lvl 13, then went back to lair and made this post. I am quite concerned because I can't see invisible and I don't want to run into an unseen horror and die. Any advice on what skills to advance next? Thanks.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-3197-g72301d3 (tiles) character file.

Sorted the Eclecticist (Deep Elf Conjurer)         Turns: 37870, Time: 03:11:02

HP  81/81        AC  8     Str  5      XL: 14   Next: 64%
MP  30/37        EV 18     Int 26      God: Vehumet [*****.]
Gold 1302        SH  0     Dex 15      Spells:  8 memorised, 17 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   c - staff of conjuration
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   y - +0 mottled dragon armour
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   (no helmet)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   k - +0 cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   B - +0 pair of gloves
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   J - amulet of the gourmand
Gourmand  : +       Flight     : .   D - ring of poison resistance
                                     q - ring of protection from magic

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 12 of the Dungeon.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 23 of its levels.

You have collected 1282 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Armour
 k - a +0 cloak (worn)
 y - a +0 mottled dragon armour (worn)
 B - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical devices
 f - a jewelled lead wand
 s - a wand of polymorph (10)
 u - a wand of paralysis
 F - a wand of teleportation
 H - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 d - 3 meat rations
 i - a bread ration
 o - a choko
 v - 13 grapes
Scrolls
 j - 3 scrolls of identify
 l - 8 scrolls of remove curse
 n - a scroll of amnesia
 p - 7 scrolls of fear
 r - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 t - a scroll of enchant armour
 x - a scroll labeled WOQIUH SCHEISH
 z - a scroll of blinking
Jewellery
 a - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 h - an uncursed ring of life protection
 q - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 D - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
 J - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Potions
 b - a potion of resistance
 e - a potion of might
 g - a potion of magic
 m - 15 potions of curing
 w - a potion of brilliance
 A - a murky red potion
 I - 2 potions of heal wounds
Magical staves
 c - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)


   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 10.6 Dodging
 - Level 10.0 Stealth
 + Level 10.4 Traps
 - Level 15.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 15.0 Conjurations
 - Level 10.0 Hexes
 - Level 7.3 Charms
 + Level 6.2 Fire Magic


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           #####        0%          1    None
b - Force Lance           Conj           #######      0%          2    None
c - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ########.    1%          3    None
d - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           ########.    1%          4    None
e - Iskenderun's Battles  Conj/Chrm      ########.    1%          4    None
f - Fulminant Prism       Conj/Hex       ########.    1%          5    None
g - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      ########..   2%          6    ####...
h - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          3%          1    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (1/4) D:10
   Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (0/5) Lair:4        Snake (0/5) Lair:4
  Slime (0/6) Lair:6     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One

Shops:
D:4: %  D:5: (  D:12: (


You are alive. Your movement speed is average. Your attack speed is below average.
You are very resistant to hostile enchantments.
You feel very stealthy.

#......#        #.#########..#  #.#
#......#        #............#  #.#########
#......#        #..........z.#  #..........
#......#        #...........z####..........
#......#        #...........zz..z..........
#......##########........##########.######.
#...................(....#........#.#    #.
#........................#........#)#    #.
#..........#########.....#........#.#    #.
#..........#       #.....#........#.#    #.
#..........#       #.....#........#[#    #.
#...#####..#       #.....#........).######.
#...#   #..#       #.@...#.......)#........
#...#   #..#       #Z*...#........#........
#..%#   #..#       #.....#........#........
#...#   #..#       #.z...'........#........
#...#   #..#########z....##########........
#...#   #.^........z.......................
#...#####........................?.*.......
#.............................(.#######....
#..............z#####..####.....#     #....
#....##########.#   #..#  #.z...#     #....
#....#        #.#   #..#  #§....#     #....
#....#        #z#   #..####zz...#     #....
#....#        #.#   #.....z.....#     #....


You can see friendly 3 orc skeletons and a friendly centaur skeleton.




Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |     1 |     2 |       |       |       ||     3
       Club              |       |       |       |    25 |       ||    25
       Demon whip        |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    94 |    91 |   113 |   127 |    67 ||   492
       Force Lance       |     4 |     2 |    17 |     6 |       ||    29
       Dazzling Spray    |     2 |     1 |   160 |   189 |   163 ||   515
       Iskenderun's Myst |       |     2 |    39 |   330 |   257 ||   628
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |     4 |    91 |   104 ||   199
       Fulminant Prism   |       |       |     1 |     7 |    24 ||    32
       Bolt of Fire      |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Animate Skeleton  |       |       |       |       |    53 ||    53
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |    10 |    12 |     1 ||    23
  Use: Potion            |     2 |       |     3 |     4 |     7 ||    16
       Scroll            |       |     2 |     8 |    15 |    11 ||    36



[hxy]

You have more than enough Traps for the rest of the game.
Looks pretty good otherwise.. More Conj will be good for spell power, but I see you already have a Staff of Conjuration so that's not very critical at the moment.
Do you have books with other useful spells? Lookout for Flight/Blink/Repel Missiles/Haste

Oh, and find some place to stash your excess inventory.. Lair:2 is a popular location.