Help Punching Things
Posted: Saturday, 6th April 2013, 16:15
by Deadscale
Howdy,
TL:DR Version : I'm looking for some advice on Punching things, more specifically an Unarmed Combat character. I've recently got into playing Crawl and so far I just haven't had a good run with a few setups, so I figured I'd come here to ask if any one has any major Tips to playing an Unarmed Combat guy, particularly in the What to skill and What to stat first department, For the sake of saying, I'd preferably not like to use any magic, although abilities from gods/etc are fine.
Long Version:
Thanks for your help in advance, And while I doubt I'll get the answers I need (I am asking quite a lot) really any tip that adds to this helps.
TL:DR Version : I'm looking for some advice on Punching things, more specifically an Unarmed Combat character. I've recently got into playing Crawl and so far I just haven't had a good run with a few setups, so I figured I'd come here to ask if any one has any major Tips to playing an Unarmed Combat guy, particularly in the What to skill and What to stat first department, For the sake of saying, I'd preferably not like to use any magic, although abilities from gods/etc are fine.
Long Version:
Spoiler: show
And as this is probably going to be a long text, I thought I'd give you a simple question at the top with my Wall of text below it.
Now I always like playing Hand-to-Hand Heavy Armor combat characters in games, and while usually challenging they're somewhat workable in some games. And in Crawl it's no different, but I'm just having trouble getting a good enough run. I'll try to explain.
I've had around 20 characters now (not to much I know but bare with me), 2 of which haven't been UAC guys, a Kobold Zerker, a Minotaur Fighter. Both which got quite far in comparison (Kobold got to D:8 before being completely dicked over by auto-exploring into a Mage dude, who teleported me into an Orc fortress smack bang in the middle like 9 of them... And the Minotaur got sent to the Abyss..) and the rest all UAC guys who end up dieing anywhere from D2 to D6.
I realize this is still probably the very early game for most people, hence why I'm asking for some help, but I'm just going to list some of my thought process when making a UAC guy. and Maybe you can find the error of my ways? and If my thought process is good then I've just had some shitty luck.
Ok so for starters, My main Idea was to have a Face Tanking Face Smasher, To me in a game about surviving where death is permanent, unless you have a way out it's probably best to have a lot of health and armor lest you want to get murdered. But I'm also open to the other styles of playing an UAC character what with dodging and evading, and seeing how UAC works I quickly adopted a less heavily armored/more evading style of play.
I've tried quite a good number of Specie/Background combinations, as far as Species go, Trolls/Minotaurs/Ghouls/Felids/Tengus seem to be the more capable ones, with Centaur/Ogre/Hill Orc also being quite viable and for more of a random aspect Demonspawn/Draconian. And so far Felids/Trolls/Tengu/Minotaurs have been my best bet, but for different reasons. Trolls can usually face tank, regen and deal a lot of damage but can't run away or avoid well or wear a lot of armor, when you're still level 2/3 if you run into Mr Sigmund you're pretty much screwed, you can't run away because you're a troll and he's seen you before you can see him, and unless you get lucky you're probably gonna get your ass handed to you. Felids and Tengus are actually better then I first expected. having a higher stealth skill and being able to run from harder challenges is useful, although they usually fall short when the monsters start to get a little tougher. And Minotaurs are probably what I was more or less looking for in the beginning what with a heavy armored gut puncher. And they do pretty well.
As far as Backgrounds go, Beserker/Fighter/Monk were my main focueses, with Gladiators and Transmuters being an okay second. Beserkers are naturally tanky, although they're stuck to a god (I'll get to that). Fighters are a good start if I planned on using a shield and going for a more heavy armored type fighter, but Monks were a main stay, the ability to pick a god freely + their bonuses fit in quite well with my less armored/more evading type of UAC guy. i've messed around with Glads and Transmuters but didn't enjoy them as a whole because Transmuters used magic and Gladiators although in theory sounds good (More armored then a Monk, More damage unarmed then a fighter) they just didn't impress me.
Going into Gods, Jiyva seemed the best to me if I was rolling with a Troll/Felid/Demonspawn, although never actually being able to get to worship him. The Mutations are very welcome to characters that don't use armor, what with giving some amazing bonuses, and while Claws etc are "bad mutations" aslong as you don't get to unlucky you should be fine. And you won't be needing much items because you're an UAC guy. After Jiyva there was always a tie with Makhleb/Okawaru/Trog, Makhleb has the insanely useful ability of giving you hp back when you kill something, Trog gives you berserk which early on is a life saver, and Okawaru gives you some sweet armor and the ability to attack faster in heavy armor without dumping tons of points into the Armor skill (although you will anyway)
And out of all of these I haven't had much luck. Mainly I think it's because I'm not to sure what to skill or level first, I usually swap it to Manual, level UAC and Fighting equally to start with, ignoring everything else, and adding either Stealth + Dodging + Stabbing(much later) or Armor + Shields later on in. And I skill either Dex every time if I'm going for the lightly armored version, or add some Str to outweight the armor but mainly focus on Dex.
Is there any tips you have for me in regards to mechanics with UAC? Is it better to pump strength to offset the attack delay even more if you're going for an armor guy? Should i be getting 8 Int to protect me from some stuff later on? Should I be focusing on UAC heavily for the first couple of dungeons, and then take up the rest later?
Now I always like playing Hand-to-Hand Heavy Armor combat characters in games, and while usually challenging they're somewhat workable in some games. And in Crawl it's no different, but I'm just having trouble getting a good enough run. I'll try to explain.
I've had around 20 characters now (not to much I know but bare with me), 2 of which haven't been UAC guys, a Kobold Zerker, a Minotaur Fighter. Both which got quite far in comparison (Kobold got to D:8 before being completely dicked over by auto-exploring into a Mage dude, who teleported me into an Orc fortress smack bang in the middle like 9 of them... And the Minotaur got sent to the Abyss..) and the rest all UAC guys who end up dieing anywhere from D2 to D6.
I realize this is still probably the very early game for most people, hence why I'm asking for some help, but I'm just going to list some of my thought process when making a UAC guy. and Maybe you can find the error of my ways? and If my thought process is good then I've just had some shitty luck.
Ok so for starters, My main Idea was to have a Face Tanking Face Smasher, To me in a game about surviving where death is permanent, unless you have a way out it's probably best to have a lot of health and armor lest you want to get murdered. But I'm also open to the other styles of playing an UAC character what with dodging and evading, and seeing how UAC works I quickly adopted a less heavily armored/more evading style of play.
I've tried quite a good number of Specie/Background combinations, as far as Species go, Trolls/Minotaurs/Ghouls/Felids/Tengus seem to be the more capable ones, with Centaur/Ogre/Hill Orc also being quite viable and for more of a random aspect Demonspawn/Draconian. And so far Felids/Trolls/Tengu/Minotaurs have been my best bet, but for different reasons. Trolls can usually face tank, regen and deal a lot of damage but can't run away or avoid well or wear a lot of armor, when you're still level 2/3 if you run into Mr Sigmund you're pretty much screwed, you can't run away because you're a troll and he's seen you before you can see him, and unless you get lucky you're probably gonna get your ass handed to you. Felids and Tengus are actually better then I first expected. having a higher stealth skill and being able to run from harder challenges is useful, although they usually fall short when the monsters start to get a little tougher. And Minotaurs are probably what I was more or less looking for in the beginning what with a heavy armored gut puncher. And they do pretty well.
As far as Backgrounds go, Beserker/Fighter/Monk were my main focueses, with Gladiators and Transmuters being an okay second. Beserkers are naturally tanky, although they're stuck to a god (I'll get to that). Fighters are a good start if I planned on using a shield and going for a more heavy armored type fighter, but Monks were a main stay, the ability to pick a god freely + their bonuses fit in quite well with my less armored/more evading type of UAC guy. i've messed around with Glads and Transmuters but didn't enjoy them as a whole because Transmuters used magic and Gladiators although in theory sounds good (More armored then a Monk, More damage unarmed then a fighter) they just didn't impress me.
Going into Gods, Jiyva seemed the best to me if I was rolling with a Troll/Felid/Demonspawn, although never actually being able to get to worship him. The Mutations are very welcome to characters that don't use armor, what with giving some amazing bonuses, and while Claws etc are "bad mutations" aslong as you don't get to unlucky you should be fine. And you won't be needing much items because you're an UAC guy. After Jiyva there was always a tie with Makhleb/Okawaru/Trog, Makhleb has the insanely useful ability of giving you hp back when you kill something, Trog gives you berserk which early on is a life saver, and Okawaru gives you some sweet armor and the ability to attack faster in heavy armor without dumping tons of points into the Armor skill (although you will anyway)
And out of all of these I haven't had much luck. Mainly I think it's because I'm not to sure what to skill or level first, I usually swap it to Manual, level UAC and Fighting equally to start with, ignoring everything else, and adding either Stealth + Dodging + Stabbing(much later) or Armor + Shields later on in. And I skill either Dex every time if I'm going for the lightly armored version, or add some Str to outweight the armor but mainly focus on Dex.
Is there any tips you have for me in regards to mechanics with UAC? Is it better to pump strength to offset the attack delay even more if you're going for an armor guy? Should i be getting 8 Int to protect me from some stuff later on? Should I be focusing on UAC heavily for the first couple of dungeons, and then take up the rest later?
Thanks for your help in advance, And while I doubt I'll get the answers I need (I am asking quite a lot) really any tip that adds to this helps.