Bad Forms and threat of Str 0

[Psieye]

At the end of last week, we got the Bad Forms branch merged into trunk. Now you don't get horribly mutated because Ijyb or some random mook had a wand of polymorph. On the other hand, one of the possible Bad Forms is bat form. This has -5 Str as part of the package. You cannot cancel out of Bad Forms (unlike any other form shifting, including Nemelex cards). I can't remember if bat form lets you drink, certainly some of the other Bad Forms have this restriction.

People will have to make up their minds on whether to ensure their weak DE or Sp have 6+ Str to avoid stat death from a fluke polymorph.

[nicolae]

Do bad forms last long enough to lead to stat death?

[Psieye]

Good point. I think they lasted tens of turns when experimenting in Wizmode. Probably not long enough to directly die from Str 0 but definitely long enough for the periodic paralysis bouts from the "Str 0 = Collapse" state, which lasts some time even after you've come out of Str 0.

I have had a Sp get turned into a bat (deck of escape) and immediately cancel the transformation, but that was enough for an elephant (already at melee range) to get some 4~5 hits in (my Sp speed didn't kick in until Collapse disappeared). I don't hold much hope for a bat that can't escape the transformation, given bats have minimal AC and paralysis means minimal EV.

[ebarrett]

So now poly other threatens to actually (indirectly) kill the player for a short period instead of just annoying him for god knows how long and people are complaining?

[Psieye]

I don't interpret the above discussion as 'complaining'. I read it as 'seeking clarification on possible (albeit rare) death cause from the awesome change'.

[ebarrett]

I'm just doing a preemptive strike and claiming some easy thanks. If I was going to be serious I'd mention how silly it is to have forms which change you into a completely different creature have physical attributes relative to your untransformed totals as opposed to having their own fixed numbers, but I don't think that's an "issue" worth being serious about - it would carry its own set of inconsistencies, it would create different behaviours for different transformations which would be something hard to both explain and justify, and it'd make players less likely to die to some freak accident anyway.

[njvack]

Why does batform have -5 strength? Just to make you burdened?

[Jabberwocky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
That's why.

[PostmodernBrony]

So now poly other threatens to actually (indirectly) kill the player for a short period instead of just annoying him for god knows how long and people are complaining?

wow, you mean there are people who actually find DCSS difficult enough as is? Perish the thought.

[byrel]

Quite bluntly, I doubt this is a net change to more deadly. 2-3 random mutations are much more likely to contribute to my death than an unlucky bat transform. Seriously, there's quite a handful of forms, and bat is only deadly if I can't recover. And then only on particularly low-strength builds. I often will be able to handle it through blinking, teleport, might, etc. until the transform is over. But I really have a hard time doing anything to keep from dying with slow movement 2. (Convert to Cheib?)

[Psieye]

No, it most certainly isn't a net change to more deadly. It's merely something new (the "can't cancel transformation that's killing me" part), which is the sole reason I started this discussion. I know, we've been through so many complaints and pleas for help that it's very easy to read a supposed-to-be-neutral discussion as a grumbling. Frankly, I like the rare possibility of death by Str 0 due to a fluke Bad Form - a lot more satisfying than "oh shit you end up with Slow Move 2 and Blurry Vision".

[XuaXua]

Make the bad form bat force you to drop all your equipment. Tada!

[mrbobbyg]

Just got jumped by Grinder with a wand of polymorph. What pre-forms would have been a GG due to mutation spam instead became a really fun game where I'm running away as a hog, until I decided to stand my hoggy ground for a turn, morph back into an elf, and then blast away.

Super fun. Whereas getting slow from a wand felt like I was being ripped off by the RNG, this made me feel like I had a chance.

Thank you devs!!

[mrbobbyg]

Lol...yes...probably should have said QQ.

[njvack]

Huh! That's about the best Grinder encounter you could hope for

[XuaXua]

Can you now use Wand of Polymorph on yourself again?

[nicolae]

Can you now use Wand of Polymorph on yourself again?

Yep.

[Psieye]

Can you now use Wand of Polymorph on yourself again?

Yep.

That was one of the first things I did when I got the trunk download. Make a wizmode game, spawn a polymorph wand and zap myself 20 times to see what bad forms happen. I don't think I got to see all the bad forms, but it was fun.

[Jeremiah]

Does magic resistance help against getting polymorphed?

[Psieye]

Yes. It's annoying that slugs and snails have "some MR" as I want to polymorph them into more interesting monsters to beat up.