Troll Monk of Nemelex

[Grimm]

This is a fun build. Troll is strong + Monk doesn't need to carry much in the way of weapons or armor = lots of room for Nemelex's decks. Spellcasting is unnecessary, you can fling cards like a Vegas dealer all day long, and when the enemies break through your summoned hordes, you can slice them up a treat with your claws.

[tormodpwns]

Well Evocations will take forever to train because I'm pretty sure Trolls have it at -3. Also, the grand splendor of worshipping Nemelex is to summon the most badass things, and with Troll hunger there won't be too many corpses to sacrifice.

All said and done, however, it's true that Nemelex worshippers are godly powerful.

[Grimm]

I lucked out and got a sust ring pretty early which meant I was all right on the food front. Also, Orc and Hive are handy corpse farms.

As for Evocations, the thing to do is play an Experience card and shoot wands at walls. At XL 15 right now I'm at Evo:9, which is decent enough to make most summons friendly.

I had never experienced the deep joy of summoning before though. Watching an amiable Balrug turn a pack of Orc:4 Beoghists (heretic scum that they are) into a pile of presliced luncheon meats is a pleasure I recommend wholeheartedly to all.

[Grimm]

It would be nice if the player was able to organize the decks in his inventory.

[MrMisterMonkey]

you can rearrange the letters with =i, if that helps at all

[Grimm]

I labelled my decks a-p, and oddly enough it sorts them in reverse alphabetical order, with the exception of a. So they are listed:

a
p
o
n
m
l
k
j
i
h
g
f
e
d
c
b

[yukuai]

I suggested it as a new combo for beginners (few days ago) and I'm still believe that it's a good first choice: grant the "engorged" status, sacrifice all to Nemelex, use your decks in bad situation... very easy

[Grimm]

After hundreds of MDFi games only about 5% of which got beyond XL 10, I made it easily to XL 16 with my first TrMo of Nem, dying only through late night inattention. I probably could have had my first win - probably will in a few days. So I agree. However some new players might find the deck system complicated and the various drawbacks to Trolls - very fast hunger, no armour, etc. - daunting.

[Zicher]

I suggested it as a new combo for beginners (few days ago) and I'm still believe that it's a good first choice: grant the "engorged" status, sacrifice all to Nemelex, use your decks in bad situation... very easy

While TrMo itself is one of the most straightforward (if not the most straightforward) combo in the game, Nemelex is quite a complicated god to handle properly, and it takes some time to get into. The other thing is that you may not have the luck to have an early altar generated. Thus, a valid and worthwhile combo, but not something I'd like to start with when I should first worry about basic game mechanics.

Still, worth a try .

[yukuai]

Even if not exists a Nemelex altar, you reach the 4th-7th level easy. The only problem can be the presence of group of ogre/centaur

[szanth]

I like Nemelex, but I don't like relying on summons. The half exp really bothers me. So Trolls are still a good idea, considering they can eat essentially everything and never have to touch a lick of permafood.

[galehar]

I labelled my decks a-p, and oddly enough it sorts them in reverse alphabetical order, with the exception of a. So they are listed:

a
p
o
n
m
l
k
j
i
h
g
f
e
d
c
b

Known (and very weird) bug.

[Grimm]

The inventory list was sorted as shown above but the wield list was in normal alphabetical order.

[lucy_ferre]

I like Nemelex, but I don't like relying on summons. The half exp really bothers me. So Trolls are still a good idea, considering they can eat essentially everything and never have to touch a lick of permafood.

Even if the summons are ridiculously powerful and can beat most of the game for you. ;P

[danr]

One thing to note that, if trolls have high demand for corpses, they have low demand for weapons / armour, which I think will produce decks of war / defence?

[lucy_ferre]

Weapons = decks of destruction
Armor = decks of escape

I don't Nemelex gives decks of war or defence as gifts.

[szanth]

I like Nemelex, but I don't like relying on summons. The half exp really bothers me. So Trolls are still a good idea, considering they can eat essentially everything and never have to touch a lick of permafood.

Even if the summons are ridiculously powerful and can beat most of the game for you. ;P

Unless they get abjured, and you're sitting there less powerful than if you'd not relied on getting half exp for your kills the whole game. I'm sure some people can make it work, but my mind just doesn't fix with it.

[OneTrueFelid]

I made a really long post about Nemelex in another thread. Legendary Decks of Summoning are Legendary Decks of Winning for a reason - Nemelex's granted summons are the most powerful available in the game. Only monsters with the summoner spellset have Abjuration, so for the most part they are a hundred percent reliable and (did I mention?) stronger than any other god's allies. Add in the fact that you can, say, haste one of your bone dragons or fiends, and you're a happy camper.

The half experience should bother you, really. You can fish for Experience cards, which obviates the issue completely, but as long as you're not spamming decks on everything (and really, you should be saving your LDoWi's!) you should be perfectly fine in the experience department. Err. I think my long Nemelex post is in one of threads near here. Blargh. Too lazy to go fetch it.

[Grimm]

I look forward to reading that post.

Played my second of these champs yesterday and cruised easily to XL 12 before deciding to charge a couple of orange crystal statues with my summon packs. I think I was down to Int -12 before I succumbed to the dumb. (I was extremely drunk IRL, which means my intelligence was low irl too.)

Came up with what is probably an obvious technique for Sons of Fortune: Starting on DL 1, pick up literally everything: every stone, every skeleton, every piece of trap ammunition. When your slots fill up, dump the junk in a pile near a stairs and mark it with a waypoint (CTRL-W then a number). Repeat. Once you've found a Nemelex altar and converted, you can go back and sacrifice several huge stacks of items and ratchet that piety right up. I think I got three pips right off the bat. Good times. I wonder whether I'll ever play an MDFi of Oka again. So much suffering there.

[OneTrueFelid]

I prefer to get early Wonders and then Summoning, which is why I don't do "piety piling" much anymore. As a child of fortune, I dislike Decks of Destruction for reasons I mentioned in my other post. Decks of Escape below Legendary status, however, are fantastic for grinding up some Evocations and reducing gift timeout!

[Grimm]

Interesting approach. I'll give that a try next time.

[OneTrueFelid]

It's a bit all-or-nothing for some other characters, but for a TrMo the risk should be low.

[tormodpwns]

I made a really long post about Nemelex in another thread. Legendary Decks of Summoning are Legendary Decks of Winning for a reason - Nemelex's granted summons are the most powerful available in the game. Only monsters with the summoner spellset have Abjuration, so for the most part they are a hundred percent reliable and (did I mention?) stronger than any other god's allies. Add in the fact that you can, say, haste one of your bone dragons or fiends, and you're a happy camper.

Um, I would actually say Trog's summons are better most of the time. You can get his strongest summons earlier than you can get legendary decks from Nemelex. Bone Dragons and tier-1 demons are not quite as powerful as berserk Iron Trolls, although it IS true that you can haste those Nemelex summons (unless it's an Executioner). However I must say that a stacked legendary deck with Foxfires is gg for pretty much anything in the game, assuming you get red wasps.

Played my second of these champs yesterday and cruised easily to XL 12 before deciding to charge a couple of orange crystal statues with my summon packs. I think I was down to Int -12 before I succumbed to the dumb. (I was extremely drunk IRL, which means my intelligence was low irl too.)

LOL playing crawl while wasted? That's hardcore dedication to gaming there.

[smeej]

I wonder what the least mentally taxing build is... I often play while hammered.

So far this build is actually pretty simple.

[Grimm]

Best drunk build would be Troll or Minotaur Monk of Trog.

[danr]

I just tried a Minotaur monk, and went Xom for the xom of it (first altar). I tried diving down to amuse Xom, charged straight into a big mob on D:3, and it worked! I amused Xom - by dying...

[Zicher]

Best drunk build would be Troll or Minotaur Monk of Trog.

A raging drunken master build?

I recall playing an SpVM while fairly drunk. Somehow it felt appropriate to intoxicate others as well .

[Grimm]

I am in an abusive relationship with Crawl. Sometimes alcohol is involved.

[Zicher]

LOL playing crawl while wasted? That's hardcore dedication to gaming there.

Playing roguelikes while intoxicated is great fun.

But what's even better, is to play Crawl a bit drunk in front of a bunch of other people with your laptop connected to a projector, creating an approx. 2*2,5 meters ASCII terminal.
Sometimes I look a bit geeky even to old-time Atari, Amiga and arcade gamers

[joellercoaster]

I started my Spriggan Gladiator of Fedhas when more than somewhat intoxicated.

Now I'm sober and he's XL8 :-/

[tormodpwns]

That would explain your strange race/class/god combo.

[Grimm]

[yukuai]

I reached the level 16 of the TrMo of Nemelex: not bad, but here's some situations that make this choose hard to use. For example: I found Norris: oh God, what a f*cking unique! invis+paralyze ...


A question: I've got an unique robe:
the +0 robe of Peek-a-Boo (worn) {+Inv rElec rC++ rN+}

but I've found a Golden Dragon Armor (+2)

What's the best for a TrMo?

With the robe I've got 11ac, 14EV
With the armour: 27 ac, 0EV

Atm I'm using the GDA cause it grants cold, fire and poison resistance too, but what do you think about this?

[Lantier]

I've been staying away from any armor with a big EV penalty because I read this on the knowledgebot:

# Fighting without a weapon. 3+UC base damage (+6 Tr, +2 Gh, +2 per claws level, +X for forms); delay 10 - UC/5; +2 to hit (+4 Tr/Gh). If you have an EV penalty (such as by wearing a shield, or armor (reduced somewhat by armor skill)), attack delay is slowed to max(10, 1d10+2dAEVP) - UC/5.

If I am interpreting that right, unless you have mongo armor skill, wearing GDA will make your unarmed attacks totally suck. If it were my troll, I'd stick with that sweet robe.

[yukuai]

I tried some fight with GDA and robe: never understand the difference

Someone can confirm what Lantier wrote?

[KoboldLord]

Your attacks will be slower in heavy armor, at least until you've trained up armor skill quite a lot. Your damage over time will be cut by around a third, even if individual strikes still hit just as hard.

[Grimm]

Something I cannot find anywhere: what do skeletons count towards when sacrificed? I assume summonings.

[LunarHarp]

The high level nemelex summons seem to stick around for longer then trog's guys. So while I agree that that berserk iron troll is probably better then a bone dragon, nothing quite matches being able to clearing an entire level with one summon (dancing executioner's ax of speed).

[yukuai]

Yeah! Finally I can agree that GDA on a TrMo it's unuseful: yesterday I tried the Orc's mine with GDA and at the first level (against 3 orc warrior) I was near death. After that I weared my robe and go deeper in the orc's mine: I can manage 5+ orc warrior without problem.

Thanks for the help

another question: cloak and helmets make the unarmed bad?

[Zicher]

another question: cloak and helmets make the unarmed bad?

Cloaks have no influence at all.
Helmets don't have a direct influence on to-hit or attack speed. However, they make headbutts a little more damaging, spiked and horned helmet a bit more still, and visored helmets block bite attacks.
All of this counts only if you already have Unarmed Combat skill - unlike horns, a helmet isn't a natural aux attack and thus won't allow headbutting without the skill.
But as a Troll, you can't wear helmets, can you?

[yukuai]

Yeo!

I've found an artifact (it's like the Robin Hood cap )

[DivineHammer]

Something I cannot find anywhere: what do skeletons count towards when sacrificed? I assume summonings.

This is correct. If you want to build your piety (and decrease your timeout by a miniscule amount) without giving too much weight to summonings, you can kind of juke the system by butchering every corpse you come across and sacrificing the skeletons. All corpse/skeleton sacrifices give the same piety, but skeletons weigh significantly less than corpses, so they give less weight to summoning decks.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Grimm, why are you playing Trolls instead of Dwarves? What wrong did they do to you to betray them who are proved allies and brave adventurers?

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

LOL playing crawl while wasted? That's hardcore dedication to gaming there.

Playing roguelikes while intoxicated is great fun. I've played Crawl while still under the lingering effects of general anaesthetic. Surprisingly, I did okay.

Some people do something worse than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXLe5L219bc

"Okay, [spoiler], you heard the music: KHILL!!!"

[Grimm]

Grimm, why are you playing Trolls instead of Dwarves? What wrong did they do to you to betray them who are proved allies and brave adventurers?

I don't know, man. That was a bad period in my life. I made a lot of mistakes...did a lot of things I'm not proud of. Shameful things. I've pulled through though.

Seriously though, I got interested in how decks work after trying a few cards. I did an MDFi of Nem but found that not much space was left in his pack for decks (I like to carry a fair bit of gear). So I thought about it and reckoned a TrMo would give me the opportunity to carry the largest number of decks.

I still like the whole concept of decks and will probably try a few more. And if I ever win with my MDFi, I may switch to TrMo/Nem as my new build.

[RFHolloway]

Ithink TRMo of Nem is a great combination - Nem provides both a use for the stuff that a troll cant eat - sorry use - and some extra magic. Slightly more flexible than a TrBe (more options with the decks) but you do lose Brothers in Arms.

[MonorailCat]

Slightly more flexible than a TrBe (more options with the decks) but you do lose Brothers in Arms.

Decks of Legendary Summoning are a real good replacement.
Nemelex is great, but for me it's a bit too much micromanagement. It would go a long way to replace the plain/ornate/legedendary with only one deck type, and
power them with piety/evocation only ..

[Grimm]

I think the complexity is a big part of the appeal. Like spellcasting plus. You have to keep track of how many decks of which type you have, and which need to be marked, which triple drawn, etc. Plenty of potential for humorous demise.

[Burningled]

I much prefer GhMo of Nemelex -- It's like TrMo; except you get a passable evocations aptitude, can spam decks of destruction at no injury to yourself (as long as you're careful drawing Spark and Flame) and can actually branch out into spellcasting without miserable failure as a result.