New combo for beginner

[yukuai]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie of this game and I think it's one of the best (and hard!) game that I ever played: beatiful!

I tried the suggestion of combo race-classes of the wiki, but I think one of the easiest way to play the game it's a TRMo of Nemex: Strong, deadly and you can sacrifice all of the weapons (cause you don't need anything, just some stone to throw )

I think it's a good idea add this combo in the suggested combo for beginners

[galehar]

TrMo is a powerful and simple combo. Probably the simplest. Nemelex is a very powerful god, and has very good synergy with TrMo, but is also a very complex and unreliable one. I would not recommend it to beginners. You need to know the game pretty well (and use spoilers) to use Nemelex effectively. Also, I think MiFi is a better combo to discover the game, because you get to try out all weapons, brands and armours. TrMo is simpler, but much more restrictive.

[yukuai]

TrMo is a powerful and simple combo. Probably the simplest. Nemelex is a very powerful god, and has very good synergy with TrMo, but is also a very complex and unreliable one. I would not recommend it to beginners. You need to know the game pretty well (and use spoilers) to use Nemelex effectively. Also, I think MiFi is a better combo to discover the game, because you get to try out all weapons, brands and armours. TrMo is simpler, but much more restrictive.

TrMo let you to don't be bothered to know what's the best weapon/armor (you only need to upgrade your robe). A question: what do you mean with "and use spoilers"?

[KoboldLord]

TrMo let you to don't be bothered to know what's the best weapon/armor (you only need to upgrade your robe).

The numbers are right on the piece of armor. Higher is better.

A question: what do you mean with "and use spoilers"?

Decks will randomly have cards that can seriously screw you over or kill you if you don't know exactly how to mitigate them. You have to set up a situation where a bad draw can't kill you before you ever make the draw. If you don't, you could end up crippling your character permanently, or perhaps taking an early trip to the Abyss.

[yukuai]

TrMo let you to don't be bothered to know what's the best weapon/armor (you only need to upgrade your robe).

The numbers are right on the piece of armor. Higher is better.

Lol, ok: I already know it, I only say that for a beginner, a Monk, it's easy cause it doesn't take problem on armor/weapon choose: you don't have to use them!
No armor (only robes) and no weapons, simple and easy for a beginner.

A question: what do you mean with "and use spoilers"?

Decks will randomly have cards that can seriously screw you over or kill you if you don't know exactly how to mitigate them. You have to set up a situation where a bad draw can't kill you before you ever make the draw. If you don't, you could end up crippling your character permanently, or perhaps taking an early trip to the Abyss.

Here's some guide about it?

[lucy_ferre]

Lol, ok: I already know it, I only say that for a beginner, a Monk, it's easy cause it doesn't take problem on armor/weapon choose: you don't have to use them!
No armor (only robes) and no weapons, simple and easy for a beginner.

A felid berserker is as simple as you can get. No armor, weapons, wands, or spells. And you get multiple lives.

Here's some guide about it?

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... elex_guide

[yukuai]

Ok, with this combo I reach level 14 without no problem (and then I was killed cause I didn't use the legendary deck of summoning, damn!).

I think that this build it's easier than every combo suggested for beginners: once you get the ability to view 3 cards and select one, you'll become immortal (in the first 15 levels). I try to explain some tricks about this combo:
- eat everything (not the poisoned one). In the "engorged" status you gain hp very fast
- try to fight in corridors (so that you've to fight against only 1 enemy per time
- sacrifice all object to Nemelex, you get alot of decks
- turn off dodge and stealth, leave only unarmed combat, fighting and if you want throwing


with these simple rules I did very good job (I think):
- I found a "castle" full of gnolls: I think there was 30 gnolls in it ... I run in a corridor (followed by the gnolls) and then killed everyone without using potions/scrolls, only with unarmed
- I found an happy room full of orcs/warrior orcs (even there about 30 enemies): killed in a corridor, without using any potions/scrolls, only with unarmed
- I found a room with 7 bee killer, some goblin and a named (it was a girl, caster): killed everyone without using potions/scrolls, only with unarmed
- In a room I found a ghost of my previous character, sigmund, a bat, a snake: the ghost of mine hit me hard so I used the ability of Nemelex and evoked a penthagram: the demon that came out killed ghost, Sigmund and even a couple of orcs that was coming next to me.

If you remember to use the evocation in the right time (or if you've got the Deck of destruction) it's hard to die ... why I didn't remember it?


Here's a way to preserve the save game?

[galehar]

I think that this build it's easier than every combo suggested for beginners

What do you have in mind with combo suggested for beginners? As I said, TrMo is a powerful combo and is a suggested one. If you think it should be one of the 3 combos for hints mode, then I disagree. This mode is about learning the game, not beating it, that's why I think the combo is too restrictive. If you just want to recommend it to beginners, then feel free to do so.

Here's a way to preserve the save game?

Are you asking for save scumming? Try wizard mode (&).

[yukuai]

I think that this build it's easier than every combo suggested for beginners

What do you have in mind with combo suggested for beginners? As I said, TrMo is a powerful combo and is a suggested one. If you think it should be one of the 3 combos for hints mode, then I disagree. This mode is about learning the game, not beating it, that's why I think the combo is too restrictive. If you just want to recommend it to beginners, then feel free to do so.

You think that in the medium-later game TrMo of Nex isn't good? uhm, then I've to leave it?

Here's a way to preserve the save game?

Are you asking for save scumming? Try wizard mode (&).

It's a tool or it's an hack? Because if it's a "cheats" I don't want to use it

[galehar]

You think that in the medium-later game TrMo of Nex isn't good? uhm, then I've to leave it?

No, it's good. I'm trying to understand what you mean by "recommending to beginners".

It's a tool or it's an hack? Because if it's a "cheats" I don't want to use it

It's wizard mode. Let you continue after you die and make all kind of experimentation with the game. Wins in wizard mode don't count of course. The only legitimate way to keep playing after dying is playing a felid.

[yukuai]

You think that in the medium-later game TrMo of Nex isn't good? uhm, then I've to leave it?

No, it's good. I'm trying to understand what you mean by "recommending to beginners".

In the wiki of this game here's some combo for beginners:
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... _Beginners

I think that TrMo can be a good entry in this page

It's a tool or it's an hack? Because if it's a "cheats" I don't want to use it

It's wizard mode. Let you continue after you die and make all kind of experimentation with the game. Wins in wizard mode don't count of course. The only legitimate way to keep playing after dying is playing a felid.

Felid? mmm I don't have it in my race list

[danr]

Felid is a new race in the unstable (0.8) branch.

Yes, you can preserve the save file if you want by making a backup of it but this is called "save scumming". One major feature of DCSS and all roguelike games is "permadeath" - you die, you stay dead, you don't just get booted back to the beginning of the level or whatever.

I think the disconnect here is in what's meant by "good for beginners". This could mean:

- Easy to survive - just a really strong combination like MiBe
- Easy to play - e.g. TrMo - a minimum of decisions for the player to have to understand and make
- Good way to introduce basics of the game - e.g. MiFi - can try different equipment but will not have to get into learning magic and balancing skill development between melee and magic.

On that last note, the way to go on the magic side would be something like a a HECj or DECj - you just get by on blasting spells, and don't have to get into the different tactics and mechanics that other magic users might. Just as one-sided as the TrMo, but on the magic side instead of the melee side.

I would actually recommend, as an attempt to meet all three of the above versions of "good for beginners", a Hunter background - MD, Ha, Sp or Ce. Having a good ranged attack helps deal with tough monsters early on by softening them up before closing for melee and teaches about the need to do this, and the player learns some ranged combat tactics without also having to learn the complexities of spellcasting. And then you also have a character that is decent at straight-forward melee.

I suggest the following hunters:
- MDHu - crossbow is a very powerful ranged attack. MDs are among the best fighters in the game, being very good with armour, shields, maces, flails and crossbows, and having good HP
- HaHu - this background starts with a buckler and is very good at dodging so they are strong defensively, and very good with slings and short blades, both of which can be used with the shield
- SpHu - Spriggans are good with bows, have less worries with food, and are excellent at running away.
- CeHu - also good at running away and excellent with bows. Not stealthy or food-efficient like Spriggans though
- TrHu - large rocks are their missile weapon which is pretty cool, and they also start with powerful claws. They have to eat a lot, but can also eat anything anytime, and regenerate quickly.

Just remember with a Hunter though that you should actually be using melee mostly, to save your ammo for the tough monsters - on D:1 I would use it on hobgoblins and kobolds and snakes, not on rats, bats, newts, goblins.

[galehar]

Well, it's a wiki you know. Everyone can update it! There's the TrBe which is also very powerful and easier to play than Nemelex. There's already a recommended combo with Nemelex (SpEn) although I really wouldn't recommend this god to beginners. When 0.8 is out, I suggest we replace Nemelex by Ashenzari on this page. It's good for stabbers and easy to play (passive powers).

[yukuai]

Nemelex it's a strange god, but you reach the ***.... state in not so much time so I think it's easy to play (in the early game). Now I've got 5 plain deck of destruction and 2 decks of summoning (1 legendary): if I see a really strong enemy I put one of the 5 destruction deck and start choosing cards: the only one that can bother me is "torment" but usually I can launch 5 cards till the monster is near so even if I catch torment the monster is almost dead. If I see huge group of monster I use the third power of Nemelex on the summoning, choosing the best way to kill them. Yesterday I found a named one (I don't remember the name): I started killing him and let him to 50% of hp when e brutally it me so:
- blink
- choose 3 from the legendary summoning
- I choose herd (cause in this case I need only time to regenerate


This combo is easy till level 12, after it become quite difficult to manage decks-foods

[OneTrueFelid]

Destruction is widely agreed to be hands-down the worst deck and the one you want the least from Nemelex. Tormenting yourself, killing yourself with badly targeted Fireball and Conjure Ball Lightning cards, and poisoning yourself with a cast of Olgreb's Toxic Radiance does not figure well into winning. If you're playing on Trunk, hit '^', then '!', then turn off Destruction - it should be 'b' on that list.

While I believe that several combinations are simpler (and better) for newcomers, like Kobold/Halfling Berserker, Troll Monk is a pretty solid choice. I would prefer Okawaru (newer one with Heroism/Finesse, not Might/Haste) over Nemelex, but Nemelex is my favorite god, so... ^^; Basically, this is an easy guide for what most people assume is a complicated god:

1) Get to the Temple and take Nemelex. Especially as a troll, you should have permafood to spare - drop as much of it as you feel comfortable with and sacrifice it to him, ensuring you get an early deck of Wonders.

2) Draw out the deck of Wonders and hope for some Experience cards. The Sage shouldn't be too detrimental and Wild Magic can't do anything truly dangerous to you at this power level. Focus can be moderately annoying, though. Just hope for some Experience.

3) After that, focus on getting Decks of Summoning. A common misconception with Nemelex is that you /have/ to raise your Evocations as high as possible. In truth, 15 Evocations works just fine and you can take your time getting there, really. Decks of Summoning should readily fall into your hands due to the next natural point being the Lair, which is chock-full of corpses.

4) Ornate Decks of Summoning should be your main workhorses for most of the game. Legendary Decks of Summoning should be stockpiled for truly dangerous areas like branch ends. Feel free to sacrifice other things, just make sure you weight your decks somewhat towards Summoning.

5) When you get a Legendary Deck of Escapes, use Stack Five and look for some key cards: Portal (Instantaneous controlled teleport at the highest power), Tomb (creates a surrounding wall of rock), Velocity (free Haste!), Warp (Instantaneous controlled blink), and Solitude (teleports everything next to you away somewhere else on the level). The best cards are Portal and Tomb, but the other three are definitely worth a peek, especially Velocity, if you're not spellcasting.

6) If you find a deck of dungeons or deck of wonders again, you can either draw them out or handle them with more caution. I prefer to triple draw once from Wonders and then Stack Five it, searching for more Experience cards.

7) Win the game! You're using UC and Nemelex - it really can't be that difficult. =|:3

[boatie]

I think the Spriggan Enchanter is one of the easiest, mostly because you have the ability to run away from anything at the start and when you get really powerful as an enchanter it's a sinch to befuddle someone and stab them to death.