Mercenaries: are they worth anything?

[Konedar]

I just refused a deep elf blade master because :
1- he would probably run in the way of my icestorms
2- I think 1 torment and 1 hellfire and he's dead or almost
3- 3800 seemed a bit expensive (I had around 4k at the time)

Next time I get offered one with a melee char I will probably try it, I expect good damage when hasted.

Share your experience about mercenaries please.

[Davion Fuxa]

Some of the early and cheap ones are okay and can provide a nice tasty meat shield for monsters. In the Early Game that makes them okay but they quickly lose substance as you progress in the game.

[BlackSheep]

I would love to see what a hasted elf blade master merc would do.

[XuaXua]

Mercs are terrible because you can't arm them.

[wizzzargh]

I once received a Merfolk Mercenary who leveled up to a Impaler once we reached Lair:7. For 236 gold, he was a solid permanent partner, even if I couldn't equip him with items. Though I accidentally hit him with an Orb of Destruction and he got mad, then dead (RIP Rapheo) He was a credit to team against Death Yak packs. The lack of equipment indicates that they will rapidly decline in usefulness, however, and the only reason he was any good at all was because he became an Impaler. I had a Tengu/Kenku mercenary that game as well, and he remained a useless distraction for his entire existence(I got shafted in Orc and never found him again, and nothing of value was lost.)

[XuaXua]

See, I can understand the semi-recent removal of the ability to equip summons, but you can still tell bottled Efreet to re-equip.
I haven't checked if it was removed from Beogh orcs, but I think card-Mercs should be special-cased, otherwise they lose usefulness.

[JeffQyzt]

Mercs are "durably summoned" vs. permanent allies. I believe it was done so that you wouldn't theoretically stab them in the back and steal their equipment. Not that I've ever heard of a situation where a merc's equipment was nice enough to make this worthwhile...

[XuaXua]

And that really is the point there. No one wants merc starting equipment, and even if you do, it was paid for and you had to fight to get it. Should make some items "summoned" so if they're dropped they evaporate. That would solve a non-problem.

[wizzzargh]

And that really is the point there. No one wants merc starting equipment, and even if you do, it was paid for and you had to fight to get it. Should make some items "summoned" so if they're dropped they evaporate. That would solve a non-problem.

If I recall correctly, my merfolk threw spears that evaporated, so this should be already implemented.

Incidentally, could a similar thing be done to allow ranged combat ghosts to fire "Ghost Arrows/Javelins/Sling Bullets/Whatever" so they aren't just feeble XP piñatas?

[Psieye]

It's not implemented in an interactable way - there is no "the summoned guy picks up the real weapon and when the guy expires the weapon drops on the ground again". All there is at present amounts to "the summoned guy spawns with some fake weapons. These poof when coming into contact with the ground"

[Fedman]

Yes, it is a shame that mercenaries cannot pick weapons/armor. I grow attached to my mercenaries, they are fun and I enjoy watching them grow, it is a bit like playing with Beogh but more personal and flexible. Still, at the end, they inevitably die because of their poor equipment/low leveling rate.

[SchwaWarrior]

How about this for a solution? The ability to manually equip your Mercenaries or Beogh Orcs. When adjacent to them it will show up as an Ability, 'Equip Allies', where you then select the adjacent ally to equip (if more than one present) followed by a weapon or piece of armour from your inventory that their type will use. If it's something like a Merfolk Impaler being offered a flail, or an Orc Wizard being offered plate armour, they'll refuse to accept it. Then when those allies die the items they drop were originally yours enemy, so no farming can be abused.

An even better idea, if this seems overpowered: make 'Equip Allies' exclusive to Okawaru and Beogh followers, as those are the two types of fighting gods for whom organized war tactics would fit the theme.

In any case, enemy Tengus ought to have multiple variations the way Orcs, Elves, Spriggans, Dwarves, etc. all do, and probably their own themed vault dungeon floors. They're one of the rarest enemies as-is and they're not even that flashy to make up for it. Perhaps a Swamp:5 ending with a fortified Tengu village? That'd be wicked cool.

[Kate]

How about this for a solution? The ability to manually equip your Mercenaries or Beogh Orcs.

This has been suggested and rejected multiple times.

[XuaXua]

As I recall, Mercenary Card was implemented and then quite soon after "you can't equip anything but Beogh Orcs and Efreet" was implemented in order to stop SUMMONED Crimson Imps (I guess) from picking stuff up (as opposed to regular Crimson Imps which pick up everything). Not sure if there were other reasons, but adding Mercenaries to the "no pickup" list made no sense to me at the time and still makes no sense.

[Fedman]

I found why mercenaries are not able to pick weapons:
https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5929
The solution also made no sense to me.

[XuaXua]

It's my fault that my save demonstrates this, but that isn't the solution I would have selected.

I think if you pay for mercs or choose not to pay for mercs (meaning you fight them) then they should drop their equipment, mostly because it's not like mercs come with game-breaking equipment, and if you REALLY needed their equipment, then fighting the merc must have really been a challenge for you and you earned it (it's not like you earned XP for it like you do an efreet).

Just like an Efreet.

[bobross419]

Ugh... after ID'ing a Legendary Deck it had Merc at the top. Reading the wiki page it says they will pick up equipment, so I figure why not... Now I've got an Ork Knight with some shitty splint mail. If I had realized that I can't upgrade this turd I wouldn't have wasted the gold.

[khalil]

My preference would be to remove the ability for yred/beogh allies to pick up items as well

Given that beogh allies are allready useless in the endgame I don't think more nerfs are a good idea.

[khalil]

Beogh is useless, yes, but that is a completely different issue from Beogh being stupid.

They are related, because your solution to his stupidity will make him more useless.

[HisShadow]

Guys, maybe someone know how to fix it in which file manualy?

[HisShadow]

looking like it's change in source code mon-act.cc file and can't be changed in installed game :/ very sad, so much time wasted


diff --git a/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc b/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc
index 8ebe9c6..95938a2 100644
--- a/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc
+++ b/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc
@@ -1902,7 +1902,7 @@ void handle_monster_move(monster* mons)
// Same for friendlies if friendly_pickup is set to "none".
if ((!mons->neutral() && !mons->has_ench(ENCH_CHARM)
|| (you.religion == GOD_JIYVA && mons_is_slime(mons)))
- && !mons->is_summoned()
+ && !mons->is_summoned() && !mons->is_perm_summoned()
&& (!mons->friendly()
|| you.friendly_pickup != FRIENDLY_PICKUP_NONE))
{

[ZipZipskins]

no but really, what year is it

[triorph]

I had a naga mercenary pre-lair on saturday, and she levelled up with me, quickly becoming a naga mage and then sometime in the middle of orc becoming a greater naga. It was probably close to having a greater demon permanently summoned next to me at all times (I was Makhleb). Later on I found a piety trove and she was very helpful in keeping me alive while I rebuilt Makhleb piety too.

The main downside was that when I found myself overwhelmed in swamp:5 I could tele out and she couldn't. So at that point it was RIP Lanie the greater naga. I was a bit lucky because she spawned with a polearm, making her able to contribute to attacks more easily. After that I found another deck of wonders in a shop and tried to get two more (both ended up nagas, neither with polearms), and by this point it was too difficult to level them up, and they both died in snake.

My impression is that the mercenary card is very powerful if found early on with a melee character, but in any other situation are probably too weak to level themselves up, or will just get in the way.