SE/Mf Transmuter mid-game trouble

[Malik_Gynax]

I have been having trouble moving passed the midgame with Transmuter. I've been playing it as both Sludge Elf and Merfolk (usually worshipping either Okawaru or Makhleb), but the result is basically ending up the same. I am surviving consistently passed the lair pretty easily and getting into about the 20's of the dungeon and into the Vault. But around this point, two things start to happen.

1. Being a non-small race, my EV even with very high dodge skill isn't high enough to mitigate a lot of damage. With no shield especially, my defensive capabilities in normal form are pathetic. This means that if I use Blade Hands, I'd better kill whatever I'm fighting immediately because I am often dying in 2-3 hits. Especially in areas where I end up needing to fight many enemies in sequence, Blade Hands just doesn't seem to deliver because I am guarunteed to take a few massive hits even if I am wreaking havoc.

2. With the above being the case, Spider Form also begins to fail me. Even with the very high EV you get in spider form, you still get hit massively. And it would be okay that this doesn't happen as often, but with many enemies being immune to poison and the overall damage being pretty low in spider form, it often takes so long to kill monsters that they will get their lucky hits and force me to run or just do so much damage that I'm basically dead.

I just end up feeling super weak into this period of the game and it's only a matter of time until something tragic happens and my HP is blown away in a very brief melee or god forbid I get confused or slowed or something. I've only won with heavy armor wearers and spriggan casters in the past, so EV melee is definitely pretty new to me. Is there something I am missing that I'm supposed to do to up my survival? Am I just waiting for a lucky spellbook? I really don't know. Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

[crate]

I have won like 10 transmuters and they still feel weird to me.

First note: you are a melee character who also casts spells, not a spellcaster who also melees things.

As far as god choice goes, I seriously believe that Fedhas is actually the best for tm (mushrooms are extremely strong in the part of the game where tm has problems), but Oka and Makh are simpler and both good. Okawaru will basically always be better than Makhleb for fighting single enemies, Makhleb's main draw is that he gives you sustainability in fights against multiple enemies. Other gods to consider: Yred, Nemelex, Ely, Jiyva.

You will take a lot of damage as a transmuter, since you will have worse defenses than most melee characters (forms all either hurt your AC or your EV in some way, and you need to spend a lot of xp in several places). You compensate for this by dealing a ton of damage (so you can win 1v1s easily) and being able to run away.

Mostly you need to improve your tactics. Get better at positioning before (to avoid fighting lots of things at once) and during fights, know when you want to use spider form for the mobility compared to blade hands or ice form for damage, etc.

Any speed-10 melee-only monster should never kill you if you use spider form, since if things go badly you just back away and try again after you heal up.

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It sounds like you aren't using ice form? You should ... it does damage comparable to blade hands, and against a fair number of enemies it is likely to improve your survivability, and additionally you can still cast spells in ice form (so if you know blink or swiftness or haste or such you can use them, whereas in blade hands you first must cancel blade hands).

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Also in case you're not doing this, you probably want to enchant your non-glove aux armour to +2 very quickly as tm for extra blade hands AC. Boots in particular are great to enchant because running basically doesn't exist and boots of lev/flying/stealth are things you can pass up entirely just fine.

[Malik_Gynax]

Thanks for the advice. Ice Form always seems like it ruins my survivability because it makes my EV even lower and I still feel like I take huge amounts of damage per hit, despite their AC boost. I'll give it another try, though.

[rebthor]

I've never won a Tm and seem to run into the same issues that you have but don't forget that you should pick up a lot of other useful spells like either stoneskin (only good for blade hands and statue form) or Ozocubo's Armour, phase shift, repel/deflect missiles, swiftness, haste, control teleport + blink or cblink and passwall is useful.

[crate]

The point of ice form's survivability is that +20% hp is quite good. Against some things, better than the AC or EV you lose (and if you have ozo's armour then ice form probably has decent-to-good AC).

[Turgon]

Especially in areas where I end up needing to fight many enemies in sequence

If you find a wand of digging (even better: digging spell as it's tMut/earth) you sometimes will be able to dig tunnels so that you can kill foes one by one.

*******

Edit:There's a tricky option to achieve this: start as stalker if you want to play a transmuter. You'll get the Book of Stalking which contains tMut spells. Distillation/evaporate is nice for confusing packs of yaktaurs e.g. And you get the digging spell which is really useful. Fight unarmed and sooner or later you'll find a book that provides form spells.

Be aware that this won't be available in 0.12 any longer.

[Psieye]

By that point in the game, Spider form is for running away, not staying to fight.

It can't be helped if you're with Okawaru, but are you fighting alone when you have Maklehb? Having a minion 'tank' a mob when you get a bad dodge roll is very handy - you don't need to let them actually participate in the fight most of the time, just have them around to take over for you as you run away. Consider tapping into Necromancy or Summoning for extra allies too. Otherwise you want to have branched into Transloc (and charms) to increase survivability as a solo melee.

Oh and you may want to consider Na or Dr as transmuters too, NaTm gets the unique benefit of being able to run away from things with spider form. Dr get access to extremely early dragon form.

[ebarrett]

start as stalker if you want to play a transmuter

Because distill+evaporate is totally the same as punching things in the face while shapechanging, not to mention so fun that it was removed from the game to prevent players from overdosing on fun

[Bloax]

I also hear Spriggans suck as transmuters due to their colossal EV and one of the highest transmutations aptitudes, or is my mind playing tricks on me again?

[BlackSheep]

Your transmutations don't do the damage, they boost the damage done by your UC and Fighting skills. Spriggans have -2 to both skills and reduced HP. They lose their biggest asset, movement speed, when fully transformed (i.e. not blade hands or beastly appendage).

[crate]

I'm pretty sure SpTm is decent at worst, since right now I'm playing a DETm which is not nearly as bad as you might think and in this case Sp is basically DE but better.

[Malik_Gynax]

What do you guys think of Nemelex as a Transmuter god? He's always given me all the answers on my Spriggans and I always like his summons compared to Makhleb. Is there a reason Makhleb is preferable to Nemelex, or do you think I can continue to crutch on Nemelex?

[crate]

Nemelex is good. Most gods are good for tm, pick the one who gives you what you want.

[Yet Another Stupid Noob]

Ash has become one of my favorites. You are a hybrid so get benefit from all the + skills, and her other benefits are awesome for everyone.

[minstrel]

I'm not sure if you're set on sludge elf and merfolk, but if not, I'd recommend giving octopode a shot. Your squishiness early on is the biggest drawback, but if you can make it to post lair, octopode with statue form is an 8 armed murder machine. You dont lose any equipment slots (rings, amulet, hat, shield all stay on), the AC and GDR from statue form gives you the damage mitigation you're missing from lack of body armor, and stone tentacles are just plain cool. Learn all the combat buffs you can and use them regularly (haste, stoneskin, phase shift, shroud, repel/deflect missiles). I tend to keep statue form and swiftness on all the time if hunger allows (using a ring slot for hunger- isnt a bad idea, since you've got 8).

Ash also makes a great god for octopode transmuters, because you can get to partially bound in magic without giving up the ability to switch out rings and amulets. If you can do this early, it'll make the early game substantially easier. Hat and shield can be bound too without much risk since youre not going to upgrade those often. And ash's ESP makes the Earth magic investment valuable with easy setups for passwall and LRD.

[crate]

I don't recommend optm because it is hutm but worse for a very long time. And hutm is not bad, but it's certainly not a power combo.

Best tms imo are natm and mftm.

[rebthor]

I don't recommend optm because it is hutm but worse for a very long time. And hutm is not bad, but it's certainly not a power combo.

Best tms imo are natm and mftm.

What about SETm? Big downside on them is the -10% HP but the UC and Tm apts are good.

[crate]

SETm is MfTm but you have 90% as much hp.

[rebthor]

Lol, well what I was thinking is that it's easier to branch out into some Cj for ranged support. The negative charms doesn't help much since it takes longer to get to the best spell in the game though.

[crate]

Usually the only "conjuration" I would learn as a tm is Agony, and even that is reasonably rare. You don't really need to create even more places to put xp when you're playing a character that is already very xp-hungry.

[Turgon]

It's easier to cast statue form!!!!!

An octopode in statue form is very strong. Cast statue form + stoneskin + haste and nothing will withstand you. Statue form even allows constriction with stone tentacles!

I won 2 OpTm, it's great.

I don't recommend optm because it is hutm but worse for a very long time.

Getting an octopode to statue form is very hard.

I lost 80 OpTm, it's nasty.

[Bloax]

I haven't ever gotten an OpTm past the early game (pre-lair).

Ever.