Dungeon Sprint


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Favorite Sprint Map?

Sprint I: Red Sonja
8
38%
Sprint II: The Violet Keep of Menkaure
0
No votes
Sprint III: The Ten-Rune Challenge
3
14%
Sprint IV: Fedhas' Mad Dash
0
No votes
Sprint V: Ziggurat Sprint
3
14%
Sprint VI: Thunderdome
2
10%
I don't play Sprint. Why am I here?
5
24%
 
Total votes : 21
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 88

Joined: Saturday, 17th September 2011, 17:18

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 03:12

Dungeon Sprint

I've had varying levels of success with the different Dungeon Sprint maps. Though I've gotten furthest in Red Sonja, after many, many attempts I seem to have hit a plateau. So on that note, can we have a general thread for discussion of Sprint strategies? For trading tips, sharing stories, and generally celebrating the most masochistic of Crawl's challenges. Most of my post is about Red Sonja, and my inane struggle to beat it, but I'm sure we've all tried our hand at the various maps, so feel free to take the plunge in discussing your Sprint-of-choice. I think the Ziggurat Sprint is quite popular. Well, there's one way to find out-- we also have a poll. You like polls, right?

---
The following "guide" is a walkthrough of how I currently play Red Sonja. I'm trying to be detailed, so hopefully a player who's cleared it can pinpoint exactly what I'm doing wrong (and if it's only minor, then I can tweak this into a proper guide). I put asterisks next to sections that seem to give me more trouble than most. I made it for a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist, though Spriggan Enchanters are quite good. Insofar as non-casting classes go, I've probably had the most success with Ogre Hunters, and some fun can be had with Artificers (Enslavement is quite good, early on anyway), but straight melee characters (even those of Trog) are usually dead fast(er). Race/Background/Religion combo suggestions seem much more important in Sprint, so be sure to share your favorites.

Note this is predated by Ye Olde but Goode Red Sonja Thread which is definitely worth a read.

Red Sonja (DEFE):

Spoiler: show
-A secret room, accessible only with Dig/Passwall is directly south of the entrance.

-In general, turn off defensive skills, as they don’t seem to make much difference-- you still die in two-three turns maximum. You can micromanage Spellcasting/Conjurations/Fire Magic, but that doesn't seem to matter, either-- just get your best starting spells (in this case, everything but Inner Flame) usable, quickly. Pump INT.

*You're at the mercy of the RNG for the first two enemies. Kill Ijyb with the Berserk potion. Train Throw Flame.

*Open the next door at an angle, back away, kill the ogre with Throw Flame and Flame Tongue. Consumables can be used as insurance, but they're difficult to replace; it’s better to just die and restart quickly. Train Conjure Flame and Sticky Flame.

-Rest next to Sigmund's door to reveal a secret gold room. Kill Sigmund using Sticky Flame and Flame Tongue. Note that for some characters the scythe can come in handy, but not usually for this Race/Class. Train Fireball.

-Go south. Nuke the jelly with Fireball. Whatever happens, don't let it flee-- it'll swallow doors and wake up enemies you aren't ready for.

?-Sometimes, you'll find the doors all opened early, and it's basically an automatic death as enemies roam freely. Don't know why this happens.

-Search four squares south to find a secret room with some minor loot. Go west and lure out the elephant slug using Conjure Flame and Sticky Flame. The other room just has loot.

-Go back northeast and kill the Amoeba using Fireball; Sticky Flame and run away when it gets close. Loot the next room. The one after has two Kobold Demonologists and a Giant Eyeball-- nuke them with Fireball. They can wait (I usually save them for after the Rock Troll), but regardless don't go any further in this direction.

-If Zin is available, worship him. If not, go Vehumet or Sif. Last resort, use TSO or Mahkleb and train Invocations enough to make their summons useful.

-Go south and nuke Sonja with Fireball. A secret door is to the west. If Zin, you can safely clear the next room of Shining Eyes. If no Zin, don't even think about entering.
Afterwards, convert to Vehumet, Sif, or TSO if they're available.

-Clear the room to the south of Sonja's. Back up and try to blow up the giant spores, but it's (usually) no big deal if you get hit and confused. Just rest, then take out the ballistomycetes with Sticky Flame. I’ve died here maybe once.

-Kill the Rock Troll to the east by using Conjure Flame and repeatedly closing the door on him. He'll stand in it until he dies. In the middle of his room is a secret door north, and in the next room there's another one.

*You can nuke the Centaur Warriors with Fireball, but you're really at the mercy of the RNG here-- use the Potion of Speed if you still have it, and duck behind the corner if both are shooting at you.

-Kill the wasp and Oklob Plant with Fireball.

*The next room is filled with dangerous Trapdoor Spiders. The best you can do is to approach cautiously, use Sticky Flame, and hope for the best. At the southern end lies two doors.

-The northernmost door leads to two Unseen Horrors, who can be surprisingly deadly. The southernmost door leads to a room with a Giant Eyeball and lots of Pulsating Lumps and Necrophages. Fireball should clear it handily.

-Check the shops. In general, you're looking for Clarity, rPois, rFire, and useful books (especially if not worshipping Sif/Veh). Ignore those tempting unidentified artifacts, but pick up cheap blue items in hopes of getting Boots of Running, Cloak of Preservation, and Robe of Resistance. Weapons can be ignored, but the protection brand is nice. Potions of curing/heal wounds/speed are great, as are scrolls of blinking. Buy rations if they’re available and you have the extra cash. If not, take extra care to not use high-hunger spells. In an emergency, you can check the room south of the Shining Eyes for rations, but the resulting mutations can ironically turn the map into even more of a race against time. Unlike normal Crawl, starvation is a real threat.

-You’re gunning for high-level conjurations, and want at least one for fire-resistant enemies (Poison Arrow, Iron Shot, and Orb of Destruction are all good choices). If you want to go for Fire Storm, get a source of Wizardry. Even if you don’t find high-level spells, pumping Conjurations/Fire to raise your Fireball’s effectiveness is probably the way to go.

-Go back north, to the room where you killed the Demonologists (hint: it should be the only available path). Use your consumables liberally to clear out the fast-and-deadly demonic crawlers, then proceed east, handily clearing the Guardian Serpent, Hogs, and Hydra/Giant Eyeball.

***Here the game splits into four paths, from west to east:

Path A) Optional. First, a room of poison clouds and a Metal Gargoyle. I recommend at least killing him off for easy experience. Beyond lies Norris, safe behind metal grates, and a nasty demon. If you can get past them (and I usually can’t), there’s a lot of loot to be had.

Path B) An daeva behind metal grates smites you, while to the south Unseen Horrors can quickly overwhelm you. Not recommended if you’re following Sif or Veh, at least not without plenty of firepower (literally—using Fire Storm is not out of the question to safely kill the Unseen Horrors). Beyond lies a room filled with deadly Fire Giants, and the Orb of Zot (guarded by metal bars, with Tiamat behind them). The Fire Giants will probably kill you.

Path C) A Mermaid who (if you don’t kill her very quickly) mesmerizes and draws you towards a swarm of wasps. Worse, just behind the corner is a deadly Deep Elf Annihilator, protected from melee by a moat of deep water—not a problem for this character, but his attacks can quickly cut you down nonetheless. Focus your attacks on him, and use your consumables to stay alive. Behind the second corner, an Oklob Plant and Mummy Priest. If you safely killed the Deep Elf and wasps, these two shouldn't be a problem. Overall this room is probably the way to go.

South from here lies the Lernaean Hydra, and behind it lies a metric fuckton of loot (which you probably don’t need if you can kill the Lernaean Hydra- I only know about it because I checked in Wizard Mode), and southwest lies Lom Lobon (in a room of debilitating miasma clouds) and the Orb of Zot. Further south still lies a Deep Elf Master Archer, more loot and another (secret!) path to Lom Lobon.

Path D) Optional. A secret passage south of the westernmost room filled with steam leads to a Golden and Shadow Dragon, guarding a fitting amount of loot.


I’ve not yet made it safely to the Orb, but I can get just up to that point. I've seen the damn thing, now I just need to get it.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 03:41

Re: Dungeon Sprint

Zigsprint win: pick up singing sword, Shield of the Gong, Maxwell's, the demon blade or double sword or both (or something else entirely if you want, I guess, like devastator), gold dragon armour, and disc of storms, plus all the consumables. You probably want to pick Fighter for the str so you can carry all this. Worship Makhleb (there are other gods who are as good/better/nearly as good, but Makhleb is the best combination of being good and not message spamming you like Jiyva). Equip gong, Maxwell's, and your weapon of choice to begin with.

Your race doesn't matter as long as you're not a felid or mummy or demigod. Minotaur, hill orc, and ghoul (and probably deep dwarf) are the easiest.

Your skill training goals: I usually get longblades to 14, then train armour/shields/fighting for a bit, then turn on evocations. This is probably not ideal but it's not that important. Kill things with a combination of Screaming Sword, hitting stuff with your demon blade/double sword/other weapon, and then eventually you switch to Screaming Sword + disc of storms vs everything that doesn't have rElec++ or better. Get a feel for when you need to use your consumables.

At some point you will want to switch from Maxwell's to GDA, make this earlier if you find conservation, later if you don't. Play a few times and decide for yourself. You can win in Maxwell's the whole time if you want but GDA's resists are important in zigsprint. Pretty much disc of storms + screaming sword is super OP in zigsprint though.

There are also many many other ways to win ... I've won godless (demigod) so winning with any god you like is certainly possible. Fun gods imo: TSO, Ely, Xom, Nemelex. Strong but I don't like them: Chei, Jiyva. You can win with other weapons--wyrmbane and devastator are both fun, and obsidian axe is always amusing though it's imo pretty bad. You can win with spells. You can probably dispersalninja through zigsprint in 0.12, though you have to find the spell. But screaming sword + disc of storms is the easiest, surest path to a win that I've found, and I've played a lot of zigsprint.

For this message the author crate has received thanks:
inkydood
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 88

Joined: Saturday, 17th September 2011, 17:18

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 05:26

Re: Dungeon Sprint

I'd previously been playing a MiFi of Mahkleb (sometimes TSO) on Zigsprint, but was using an Executioner's Axe and GDA. Switched to Maxwell's, Shield of the Gong and the Singing Sword, almost immediately got further than I ever had. Then this happened:

Spoiler: show
Image


I have no idea if my character could have survived had I kept a cool head, but on the bright side I've verified chances of survival rapidly plummet when frantically panicking. That's nothing new, mind, but I double-checked for those in doubt.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 05:38

Re: Dungeon Sprint

I can't read tiles, what kind of zig is that? You can probably still screaming sword + disc through it.

edit: you might need to play 0.12 to use disc, I think it's still bad in 0.11 ... you can use it with rElec in 0.12 so it's super good in specific circumstances (which happen to be the ones that Zigsprint throws at you).

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1500

Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 16:17

Re: Dungeon Sprint

crate wrote:I can't read tiles, what kind of zig is that? You can probably still screaming sword + disc through it.

edit: you might need to play 0.12 to use disc, I think it's still bad in 0.11 ... you can use it with rElec in 0.12 so it's super good in specific circumstances (which happen to be the ones that Zigsprint throws at you).

Been a while since I've played tiles, but I think those are demons and lots of pan lords.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 9

Joined: Sunday, 14th October 2012, 08:42

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 17:35

Re: Dungeon Sprint

Of all the sprints, Red Sonja is the least gimmicky and best balanced, IMHO.
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1729

Joined: Wednesday, 19th October 2011, 21:25

Location: New England.

Post Thursday, 15th November 2012, 19:17

Re: Dungeon Sprint

Those are a huge number of random pan lords and 1's.
What made you happy today?
Shatari wrote:I traded a goat for a Nintendo DS XL, and a ton of games.

hxy

Slime Squisher

Posts: 418

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 13:09

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 08:59

Re: Dungeon Sprint

For Red Sonja, one method I've seen is to use LRD to tunnel through to the Orb from the corner of the U-shaped row of shops.
Just dump all XP into Spellcasting and Earth.
You'll need many tries to break the stone wall.

Edit: playing as a DDEE

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 22

Joined: Thursday, 24th March 2011, 15:25

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 14:49

Re: Dungeon Sprint

I like Ziggurat Sprint, but never got far until I tried crate's suggestion for singing sword + disc of storms.
That is crazy OP. Won first time trying it. Only 2 hard levels -- one with a bunch of storm dragons and air elementals, and one with suppression moths. For those, potions of speed and berserk were very effective when combined with Mahkleb's healing.

Is disc of storms that good in a regular game or is it mostly suited for ziggurats? It's crazy how it kills pretty much everything in sight.
I pretty much just ducked into a corner and evoked the disc repeatedly. Knowledge bot says don't use within 3 spaces of a wall, but I don't know why because it didn't seem to be a bad thing to do for me. What is significant about being within 3 spaces of a wall?

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 25th January 2011, 14:24

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 14:51

Re: Dungeon Sprint

Within 3 spaces, the lightning can bounce, and with no rElec, that can be...shockingly damaging.
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Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1337

Joined: Saturday, 7th July 2012, 02:28

Location: Limbo

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 14:58

Re: Dungeon Sprint

If you've looked at the sprint highscores in CSZO, you'd probably notice that I like Thunderdome a bit. (It's the only one where you can get ridiculous scores.)

They could really use separate highscore tables.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 15:51

Re: Dungeon Sprint

Disc of storms in 0.12 is good in the right situations now. The situations where it is useful are exactly the ones where it hurts (since otherwise you just miss horribly and do nothing) so obviously you need rElec with it. But it's good in situations where you have a ton of enemies around you (V:$ entrance, ziggurats, slime), it's good near corners against thigs without rElec. In the first case you probably also want Makhleb so you actually gain more HP than you lose.

The thing about "within 3 spaces of a wall" is so you don't orb-of-elec yourself (it is info from when you couldn't use it without rElec). But as I mentioned above, if it doesn't hurt you it probably just misses everything.

You need good evocations to make it useful, obviously, and it's not worth training evo just for disc, but if you have good evo for some other reason then carrying a disc of storms is worthwhile now.

You can do most of a real ziggurat with disc of storms if you like if you're with Makh ... it's kind of like electric shatter or ozo's.

---

Back on topic, I won pitsprint last night and it was a lot of fun. MfTm of Makh, because MfTm with sprint xp gain is super good.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 16:17

Re: Dungeon Sprint

I imagine the Disc is awfully noisy?
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 726

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 18:46

Post Friday, 16th November 2012, 18:55

Re: Dungeon Sprint

As my recent YASD can attest to, yes. Using it in the bailey with the polearm-wielding warriors on an island was a great idea, until the ones who actually could chase me showed up.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1500

Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Monday, 19th November 2012, 14:43

Re: Dungeon Sprint

I tried crate's zig sprint advice and it went swimmingly. I pretty much only used the disc, worshipped Jivya and was only at risk after the very early turns in a greater mummy/mummy priest room. The hardest part was pressing space a hundreds of times to get through the message spam from Jivya. Getting dozens of mutations a turn makes for a very tedious game. Morgue is here.

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