Longbow min delay in 0.11 is 0.8?

[Baldu]

Have a guy shooting stuff with a longbow, skill is at 12, but delay is still 0.8, isn`t it supposed to be 0.6? That's with all my equipment taken off, just the bow on.

[Blyxx]

My understanding is that ranged delay depends on STR and DEX as well as weapon skill. I've never seen the formula listed anywhere, but it seemed to be true (experimented with swapping out +- STR/DEX gear).

[Baldu]

Playing a demigod, my naked stats with just the bow are Str 19, Int 28, Dex 21, I doubt stats are a problem.

[Baldu]

Ok bots say that for Ranged: delay = base_delay - 4*weapon_skill*(str_weight*str + dex_weight*dex)/250 , so i guess i need higher skill. Should have checked before making a post!

[tasonir]

See update below!

according to the wiki, which may be wrong, str weight on a lowbow is 30%. I assume this means the formula, using your stats, is:

delay: 140% - 4*skill*(.3*19 + .7*21)/250

1.4 turns - 4*skill*20.4/250.

Since we want the right half of that to equal .7, aka 7 aut, skill * 81.6/250 = 7 would require 21.4 skill. Any later raises to stats would of course lower the skill required.

Did I do all that right? Is the base delay still 140%? OP thought min delay could get down to .6, which I don't think a 140% base weapon can reach...

Update: I left the above calc unchanged, but the weapon page on the wiki lists longbow as a 120% base delay. I'm playing a bow user now, but he has an actual "bow" - I'll check what a longbow is when I find one.

[Baldu]

Longbow base delay is 120. According to http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=attack+delay (is where i got the equation above) Ranged Weights (str/dex) are 5/5 for slings, 7/3 for the rest.

Ranged delay is confusing.

edit: a surprising find is i ended up switching to a crossbow after I found a really nice artefact crossbow, and that 1 point difference in base damage really shows. Dudes that would take 3-4 longbow hits take 4-5 hits with same skill, enchantment and slaying.

[Psieye]

The tricky thing about ranged damage is that the base damage is "launcher's base damage" + "ammo's base damage". Arrows are 1d7 and bolts are 1d9 if memory serves correctly. So a crossbow has a wider variation of damage and is certainly going to have more delay. It makes up for this by having awesome brand ammo: silver and penetration are amazing.

[Baldu]

Arrows are 1d7 and bolts are 1d9 if memory serves correctly.

I... never knew this. And I can't seem to find info on that on the bots, the wiki, or in game... crawwwwllll!!!!

silver and penetration are amazing.

I don't care much for silver but 100% agree that penetration is awesome. I wish it could be a brand on blue crossbows so they could be enchanted, but once every few billion lifetimes a penetration artefact crossbow with good enchantments generates and it is so awesome. Penetrating crossbow shooting penetrating bolts doesnt seem to do anything special, but penetrating steel bolts are really something.

[Baldu]

Boooooo, i though I had tried it but i guess i didnt, might have been wishful thinking then :#

[crate]

Longbow min delay is 0.6. If your stats are terrible it's possible you don't reach that at 27 skill I believe (though this is unrealistic).

I am pretty sure crossbow min delay is 0.7, and it is actually realistic to not be at min delay with 27 crossbows skill if you haven't been leveling str.

I am pretty sure the str weights listed on the wiki are wrong (or at least are not the str weights used in the delay formula) but it doesn't matter since you want str for all the ranged weapons more than dex anyway (crossbows because str decreases delay more than dex; bows/slings because you get bonus damage from str).

Related is that speed brand on ranged weapons (only comes on artefacts) is 2/3 attack delay, not 1/2 attack delay.

I believe you can find a non-artefact crossbow of penetration but they are very rare. Like minmay says this is not particularly good if you have penetration bolts at your disposal since the brand won't stack with ammo brands.