Air Elementalists

[Jenx]

Ok, been trying to take off an Air Elementalist a few times in the last couple of days, and it really isn't going as good as I thought. Had one up to exp level 10, he had poison cloud and other fun stuff (including a whip of electrocution), but he died due to bad luck.

One problem I seem to have is picking a race. I tried Kenku, but I honestly think they died a bit too easily. Mostly using High Elves now, but I suppose a deep elf would work just as well.

Also, Shock sucks. Yeah, it does. And don't give me that "You can hit enemies multiple times with it" argument, because I regularly pull off double, triple and sometimes even quadruple zaps and let me tell you something - if the spell does no damage to the target it doesn't matter how many times it hits.

So, any advice on how to get an AE to live long enough so I can run around casting Tornado with him? (Really, getting Tornado castable is basically my main goal as one. Actually winning the game doesn't matter that much.)

[mageykun]

Well, air experimentalists go like this.

1. Abuse shock to kill everything.
2. Anything you can't kill with shock, run away from with swiftness and/or lev.
3. Find a direct damage spell to replace shock when it shops cutting it (hydrae or a little later).
4. Become an unstopable god-
> 0.7 By spamming the air elemental fan and hasting the damn things.
> 0.8 With the new uber spell, tornado. (The fan's been nerfed).
5. Get overconfident, try the Tomb, die.

So... if you can't accept 1, you're kinda dead. Unless you get really lucky and find a book with magic dart on D1 or something, allowing you to ignore one of the most useful and interesting spells in your starting book.

Personally, I've never got a kenku to work. Too fragile. High elves work, as do spriggans. Anything fast- speed lets you position yourself better and abuse shock geometry.

[Jenx]

I tried spriggans too, but their aptitudes don't really seem to suit it. -3 Conjurations, -1 Air Magic...

[Jenx]

(Damn, why don't we have an Edit button?)
I forgot a question - is Static Discharge even worth learning?

[Jenx]

This particular AE I'm playing right now is actually going with Nemelex for...well just because. Honestly, I am getting a bit sick of Vehumet and Sif Muna, since all my mages end up with either one of those anyway. As for Airstrike - well, it's gonna suck not having it, but with my luck I'll probably find a book with it then just die shortly after that.

[KoboldLord]

Lightning Bolt has been added to the Book of Wizardry, which is possibly the most commonly randomly generated book in the game. You have to deal with bouncing for good effect, unfortunately, but with a good setup I've had it deal enough damage to one-shot an orc knight in a bailey before entering Lair.

Other than that minor improvement, play it like a wizard. You have lots of utility spells starting out, but you desperately need killing power. Vehumet guarantees Mystic Blast fairly early, although her first gift won't be as useful as normal. Shock and Mephitic are good enough to clear Orc most games, so it might be a good idea to farm piety there before entering Lair.

Depending on the weapon brands you get, building up fighting and going for a hybrid is also a viable option. An early short sword of venom combos very well with Swiftness, letting you tap things a few times and retreat to heal while they die from the poison.

[Stormfox]

Spriggan apts aren't the greatest for AE, but because of the built-in Swiftness, you save a couple of spell slots and it's a lot easier to set up multizaps. I've had much better success with SpAE than Ke or HE because of that.

[Avarice]

If your not happy with the durability of kenkus then I don't think your going to be any more happy with deep elves. High elves are probably your best bet.

However kenkus got a huge boost in trunk getting +3 to Air magic. Remember that kenkus get a speed boost when flying and as air elementalists can cast swiftness which together lets them outrun just about anything.

[Sjohara]

I very nearly made this exact thread. I've been trying to run High Elf Air Elementalists to little avail.

Well, air experimentalists go like this.
1. Abuse shock to kill everything.
2. Anything you can't kill with shock, run away from with swiftness and/or lev.
3. Find a direct damage spell to replace shock when it shops cutting it (hydrae or a little later).

This is much easier said than done. Shock is wonderful for multizapping kobolds to death until, say, DL3, and then its power is already capped and you're basically screwed. There are lots and lots of things that will survive the one trizap you get off on them and will then kill you long before you've had time to stand next to them and bizap them to death from there. So you wind up running away from so many things that large portions of floors are being left unexplored because you can't handle the monsters in them, which puts you further and further behind the experience curve, making your abysmal offense even worse until you finally run out of places to run and get cornered or die to something faster than you.

"Hydrae" is hardly the point where Shock stops cutting it. I can barely kill a damn Yak with just Shock, let alone a Spiny Frog (who are also faster than average and immune to Mephitic Cloud, so good luck with that). Since Sif Muna and Vehumet don't start giving out gifts until five stars of piety and that rarely happens before mid-Lair (i.e. after lots of Spiny Frogs if you're even lucky enough to survive that long), I find it virtually impossible to survive long enough to get my first proper nuke that way. The only Air Elementalists I've ever gotten off the ground are the ones who find lucky spellbooks before the Lair (or on Lair:1 at the latest), and the odds of that happening are quite low. Depressingly, the only Air Elementalist I ever got past Lair: 2 (got a rune with him, in fact) only survived because he worshiped Vehumet, found an early Book of Conjurations [fire] and a Double Sword, and never cast an offensive air spell again.

There are loads of cool and unique mid-level air spells that I really want to play around with, but I have yet to find a remotely viable way to survive long enough to see even one of them.

[mageykun]

To address some complaints:

Yes, the very beginning can come down to bad luck. While you're level 1, it's entirely possible to have a few multizaps miss, and be out of mp and facing the blunt end of an angry hobgoblin. Once you get to lv 2 things are a bit safer- if you see a bad situation coming cast swiftness and run before you're trapped.

The hydra was just my example for something that's pretty much unkillable with shock- it moves to fast to multizap, multiple low damage hits are a bad idea against something fast and regenerative, and you definable can't keep it in an optimal position by opting to take a few hits.

In general, the whole lair is pretty much a no no. You loose corridors, and therefore the ability to multizap. Many of the common enemies can take you apart, they're fast, and come in packs. This completely wrecks your playstyle to this point (corner luring, and multizapping). You almost definitely put off the lair (or at least, most of it) until you find a new primary killing spell. Orc may be a good deal safer (so long as you have mef and are very careful to run from / avoid any evolved orcs), and may get you the piety you need to get a new book gift. They're also nothing wrong with going a few levels past the lair, till maybe you find the hive. Heck, you could even clear that first, if you get lucky and find rPois early.

Don't be afraid to use resort to other schools if you have to. You can make a lot of the mid-level dual school conjurations work if you don't get lucky and find a pure conj or air spell you wanted. You can always go back to using air for damage after your intermediary gets you through the dry spell.

Also, if you find yourself running constantly, sometimes I find it's better to stand your ground somewhere where you can bizap and adjacent enemy, and take a few hits, rather than running endlessly trying to set up those 3-4 space away perfect tri and quad zaps (this is why kenkus kinda die when I play em. HE's have some hp, and Sp's have evasion).

AE's are hard because they don't have a guaranteed growth path. Many builds you can write formulaic guides for- pick up this spell, worship this god, bing bing bing. With a few you can almost decide your complete build from char gen. Here you're more at the mercy of the RGN, and have to be willing to adapt to what you find. Don't be afraid to branch out to another school for damage, or to learn heavier on your enchantments / weapon finds and go hybrid.

Unfortunately, the only guaranteed way to get those air spells you want to play with is be tenacious- keep your elementalist alive long enough to find them.

[Sjohara]

In general, the whole lair is pretty much a no no. You loose corridors, and therefore the ability to multizap. Many of the common enemies can take you apart, they're fast, and come in packs. This completely wrecks your playstyle to this point (corner luring, and multizapping). You almost definitely put off the lair (or at least, most of it) until you find a new primary killing spell. Orc may be a good deal safer (so long as you have mef and are very careful to run from / avoid any evolved orcs), and may get you the piety you need to get a new book gift. They're also nothing wrong with going a few levels past the lair, till maybe you find the hive. Heck, you could even clear that first, if you get lucky and find rPois early.

Avoiding the Lair entirely is something that never really occurred to me, primarily because I usually find tons of spellbooks in there with other characters. I'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible to not die to a Spiny Frog with just Shock, though, so it makes sense to stay in the dungeon. Not that there aren't a dozen things in the main dungeon that'll kill you just as dead. I don't see how the Orcish Mines wouldn't be even worse, though.

Don't be afraid to use resort to other schools if you have to. You can make a lot of the mid-level dual school conjurations work if you don't get lucky and find a pure conj or air spell you wanted. You can always go back to using air for damage after your intermediary gets you through the dry spell.

Oh, if I find any other conjuration spell at all, I consider myself to be in the clear. I mean, I'll probably get myself killed anyway, but in the normal way I get most characters killed instead of the terribly embarrassing ways I get Air Elementalists killed specifically. Like the one time I found a Book of Power by DL:6 and tore stuff up with Mystic Blast and Poison Cloud until I died to a Ghost Moth in the spider portal vault on Lair:2. (Someday I will learn that it is never worth it to attempt that portal vault, but that day is not today. I want to see the loot at least once.) The problem is that in nine out of ten games you will not see a single conjuration spell in the first twelve dungeon levels. Those are the games I'm trying to figure out.

Also, if you find yourself running constantly, sometimes I find it's better to stand your ground somewhere where you can bizap and adjacent enemy, and take a few hits, rather than running endlessly trying to set up those 3-4 space away perfect tri and quad zaps (this is why kenkus kinda die when I play em. HE's have some hp, and Sp's have evasion).

I rarely bother going for trizaps more than once. The problem is that if you stand right next to a Troll or even just a Warg at the end of a corridor and try to bizap it to death it's going to have killed you two to five times over before it actually takes enough damage to die from such a piddly spell even at double effectiveness. And if you try to Mephitic Cloud them you don't get bizaps anymore, so you empty your mana pool without killing them and then you die with no escapes when they snap out of it.

[KoboldLord]

I rarely bother going for trizaps more than once. The problem is that if you stand right next to a Troll or even just a Warg at the end of a corridor and try to bizap it to death it's going to have killed you two to five times over before it actually takes enough damage to die from such a piddly spell even at double effectiveness. And if you try to Mephitic Cloud them you don't get bizaps anymore, so you empty your mana pool without killing them and then you die with no escapes when they snap out of it.

Have you tried picking up a short blade and stabbing them? You've got Mephitic Cloud. You've got a dagger. You've got a troll's brain pan. It seems like you should be able to use these together somehow. If they snap out of it, you have Swiftness pre-cast because you ALWAYS have Swiftess pre-cast and you have plenty of mp left for another Mephitic Cloud, unless you've already used it all on Shocks that weren't doing anything.

Granted, if you really want to continue with conjurations your 6 or 7 levels of stabbing will end up wasted, but is a skill ever wasted if it got you past the early game?

[DemonOfWrath]

Definitely whacking stuff with whatever melee weapon you're using is a good idea after Meph'ing them when you run out of mp, although personally I wouldn't dare try it on a Troll (my AE's tend to be Deep Elves and I've had more than one flattened by a confused Troll). I always try and find a decent blade for that purpose (getting an electrocution weapon is pure gold).

If you get rPois skipping Lair and doing Hive first is definitely viable, Meph+Shock will deal with the Bees fairly easily, just don't get swarmed. This also allows you enough time to build up piety and get a decent spellbook before jumping into Lair. While I've never tried Orc first, it'd be easily doable I reckon, provided you avoid Knights/Warlords, as I never use anything besides Shock and Mephitic Cloud in there anyway for most of it.

I agree that Shock falls over once you hit about D:8, my strat at that point (until I get IMB/Airstrike/Summoning spells) is to throw Meph clouds at anything hard, and if it works and I have plenty of mp left I'll Shock spam and potentially move in for a whack or two, if I don't have mp left when it works I'll run off, recharge and try again. Anything immune to poison I keep well away from. Although it takes a lot of time, this will work against stuff like Yaks, Hill Giants, Elephants and even Death Yaks, Spiny Toads are the biggest pain that you're guaranteed to face, but killable (scary as hell though without rPois), Hydras I just don't bother trying until something better than Shock comes along (they regenerate too fast to kill in my experience).

One last thing, I'd pick Kenku or Deep Elf as my race, you've got Meph, Swiftness and Repel Missiles immediately so you barely get hit by anything, so I don't find the lack of hp to be an issue (and really, you tend to die in ways where having a bit more health wouldn't matter anyway as an AE).

[Sealer]

I'd like to add that static discharge has been buffed in trunk and now is a decent multiple target damage dealer, especially on mid-high power level. Of course you should still switch to airstrike/lightning bolt /poisonous cloud, but it's not as horrible as it was before, and I found myself killing yaks with it before.

You should also try a HuAE since Air elementalist are very well suited for a crusader style of play, and humans excel at going hybrid.
I hope that helps.

[tormodpwns]

Really, Shock isn't that weak. For those of you who have tried Sprint I (Red Sonja) with an Air Elementalist, you will find that after you berserk and kill Ijyb and you meet the Ogre, it's very easy to kill it: retreat until the Ogre is following you, and when you are at the doorway between the Ijyb and the Ogre rooms, cast a Shock at the Ogre and it will hit it and bounce off the wall of Sigmund's room for another hit. Then retreat back to the first room and cast a Shock at Ijyb's doorway when the Ogre is in the doorway. It does high enough damage (not even at max power) to take down the Ogre in 2-3 Shocks, guaranteed. In fact, I've had Shock (i conjunction with Mephitic Cloud) help me defeat the Elephant Slug, Sonja, Ballistomycetes, and even the Rock Troll.

Lightning Bolt has been added to the Book of Wizardry, which is possibly the most commonly randomly generated book in the game. You have to deal with bouncing for good effect, unfortunately, but with a good setup I've had it deal enough damage to one-shot an orc knight in a bailey before entering Lair.

Indeed, in 0.7.1 and before, any randomly generated spellbook has an automatic 10% chance to be replaced by a Book of Wizardry. In 0.8.0 it's been reduced to 4%, but it still definitely has a higher chance of generation.

You should also try a HuAE since Air elementalist are very well suited for a crusader style of play, and humans excel at going hybrid.
I hope that helps.

Are humans that good at hybriding? I find that they are squishy and unfocused with their aptitudes. I prefer Demonspawn because of the mutations and Demigods for the stats and HP (although going godless with 160% exp hurts your late game).

[Sjohara]

I'd like to add that static discharge has been buffed in trunk and now is a decent multiple target damage dealer, especially on mid-high power level. Of course you should still switch to airstrike/lightning bolt /poisonous cloud, but it's not as horrible as it was before, and I found myself killing yaks with it before.

You should also try a HuAE since Air elementalist are very well suited for a crusader style of play, and humans excel at going hybrid.
I hope that helps.

The last time I tried to use Static Discharge to kill a Yak I died in two rounds. Minor self-damage plus the fact that it's a point-blank spell (i.e. no softening the target before it starts smashing you) means it isn't much of a solution for dealing with the sorts of things you already couldn't afford to stand next to long enough to bizap to death with Shock. It's cute for killing a bunch of orcs in the open, but it doesn't seem to be demonstrably more useful than regular Shock bizaps on the sorts of things I actually have trouble with. I'll probably keep experimenting with it, though...it's not like I have anything else to do with my spell slots.

And I don't see the appeal of humans (in general, or here specifically). High Elves have +2 Spellcasting, +1 Air Magic, +1 Conjurations, +2 Charms, +2 Short/Long Blades. They are not lacking in the ability to play like Crusaders if you're lucky enough to get a nice bladed weapon. Their health is a little lowish, I guess, but it's not like they're Deep Elves or anything. I wouldn't be inclined trade all those awesome aptitudes just for human HP and experience growth.

[tormodpwns]

Aren't spiny frogs still faster than you even if you have Swiftness? Or at least the same speed.

[Avarice]

Not according to the knowledge bot no. Although I'm not sure how the swim tag works so they may always be at least as fast as you when they're in water.
Yeah shock doesn't really cut it as you get farther into the lair but in my experience the early part of the lair is just about the time the caster gods will start gifting you additional spellbooks.

[sanka]

And you have levitation, if there's a lot of water. I love air elementalist. You must use every spell in your starting book to be succesful combined.
Also, if you want to play a conjurer style, you should play a conjurer - as an air elementalist it's much better to play a hybrid. Pick up a weapon and start train it immediately. I usually do not turn off my defensive skills, or not for a long time.

Also, I think against spiny frogs Static discharge is strong in 0.8. Just don't use it against flying enemies.

[LunarHarp]

I have had very good luck with SpAE. I tend to turn every spell school off except for spellcasting to get those higher level spells hunger free. If you are not crazy like me you can wait till shock is at excellent and then turn everything off. Once you have hunger-free lightning bolt you have few things to worry about. You do have to be good at setting up the multizaps I suppose.

KeAE are hard at the start but once you can fly you can use swiftness for that huge boost in speed. At level 15 when you get permaflight they play just like a spriggan with better aptitudes. But as you have pointed out, surviving to that point is hard and often not too much fun.