The Tavern

Jiyva is cool. This actually sounds interesting enough that I might watch it even if it is long. But 4 hours for a 15 rune game, with enough time left to explain things, sounds pretty ambitious.

4 hours was my 3-rune plan, when most requests were still compatible with OgEE. 4-4 1/2 hours is what I need normally to play a fast 15-runer (not speedrunning). I guess it is going to be 6ish hours if I do 15. I stil plan on making a video with the highlights afterwards, though.

I vote for Chei :lol:

This isn't a Let's Play where we torture the guy for our own amusement.

BlackSheep wrote:This isn't a Let's Play where we torture the guy for our own amusement.

Oh, right

I've subbed in anticipation of the forthcoming vids. I'm looking forward to watching them, hopefuly, I'll learn a thing or two.

I would love to see a MuFi run or any build where you go with Fedhas. As for the version, I don't mind Tiles or Console, I play both anyway.

Tiles, please. Can get much more information at a glance.

Minmay- assuming new players to Crawl hadn't played any other roguelikes, why would playing console allow them to better recognize monsters than with the tiles version? The name of the monster shows up in the dialog box at the bottom anyway when they come into view, attack, et cetera.

Well presumably these people have been reading for quite some time, so they're probably pretty good at being able to tell what an "o" is and what an "a" is and so on. It's unlikely they've been looking at real live orcs for nearly as long.

crate wrote:It's unlikely they've been looking at real live orcs for nearly as long.

You should have grown up in my neighborhood.

I don't think it matters whether you do your Let's Plays with Tiles or Console, and I actually suggest you go with the setup that best suits you. This is especially true if using the other type of client frustrates you in any way. Even if people don't fully understand what they are seeing on the Console as well, it won't be much better if they are watching you play on Tiles and your Frustration of doing so is seething through.

Besides, there is enough people doing Tiles for now anyways.

As a long-time rogueliker (grew up on ADOM), I can appreciate the console version, but when there is such a NICE tiles version available as there is here, why not go for the BMW instead of putting around in the Golf?

I don't mean to be antagonistic, but out of curiousity: what does console have that tiles doesn't?

Habit.

Buta: Has been said so often: letters are designed to be parsed easily. Much less cognitive effort to distinguish one coloured letter from another one. With tiles, the learning effort of internally mapping tiles to monsters is probably similar to mapping letters to monsters, but even afterwards it is more effort to process tiles than letters. At least to me. It might be easier now that tiles are scalable (my eyesight is pretty bad, and choosing a different/larger font is very easy).

I never understood the "the capital red D leaves a lot more room for imagination (of a fiery dragon) than a picture could" type of reasoning. I never think, "oh shit, a mighty red dragon", I think "oh shit, a red D". The real advantage of console is easier parsing for me. To give an extreme example: suppose you were blind: you could still play console, but probably not tiles.

Dpeg - yeah I get that, and I agree.

I guess my situation is just different... I have mild RSI and being able to use the mouse to move to an explored part of the map without having to pressing a few keys a lot of times helps. Plus, being able to see monsters' equipped weapons saves time in a fight when I am trying to keep the dude with the polearm away while focusing first on the guy with the whip.

And I don't know about the recognition thing for newbies, necessarily. I mean, if I see a regular rat, which looks like a rat in tiles, I know it's probably going to be safe to engage, even at low levels. As a newbie in the console version, however,, I have no idea what to think when I first see it, and may occasionally forget what the letters stand for. But I guess this is sort of thing is immaterial as the key to survival in Crawl is encountering monsters enough times to learn their strengths and weaknesses, which will make you memorize what the letters stand for over time.

Ultimately, it's to each his own, and that's cool with me.

It's weird that webtiles gives the monster list but offline tiles doesnt. Is there an option to change the display in the init file?

Erm, you can view the Monster's list in Tiles? Just hit the Monsters Tab below the Inventory Tab to do so. You get to see monsters on the screen with a name next to each tile they represent.

The biggest benefit of tiles over console to me is the extra information that is more easily accessible such as the health bars, status icons, clouds and monsters on the same tile, knowing what an item is at first glance (ie. id'd potions/scrolls or weapon base type), more visible map shown outside LOS. Also i think that most people are able to store monster information to their memory easier with the tile pictures of enemies, than with a letter-colour combination on console (obviously given the same amount of time with each method, someone who played console first will find it harder on tiles and vice-versa).

That being said, console is better for watching someone else play for the reasons already stated: the monster list.

moocowmoocow wrote:It's weird that webtiles gives the monster list but offline tiles doesnt. Is there an option to change the display in the init file?

Webtiles and local interface is fairly separate. Interface improvements to webtiles do not automatically apply to local tiles and vice versa. I so wish local tiles had a proper monster list, though.

tself55 wrote:The biggest benefit of tiles over console to me is the extra information that is more easily accessible such as the health bars, status icons, clouds and monsters on the same tile, knowing what an item is at first glance (ie. id'd potions/scrolls or weapon base type), more visible map shown outside LOS. Also i think that most people are able to store monster information to their memory easier with the tile pictures of enemies, than with a letter-colour combination on console (obviously given the same amount of time with each method, someone who played console first will find it harder on tiles and vice-versa).

That being said, console is better for watching someone else play for the reasons already stated: the monster list.

Don't forget that the monster list also shows the health level of the monster in console, next to the monster name.

I don't know how far you've gotten in your project as of now, but i thought i'd chip in and say i personally would really prefer watching this on local tiles, instead of console.

Also, huge thanks for doing this as one of the things i've wanted to see for a long time is the thought process of a really good player, what is your number 1 priority, how do you judge X vs Y, etc etc

Great idea!

But I think the webcam adds little to it. It seems anachronistic to have a person's face hovering in the corner of the screen where the main content is a decades-old graphical style, but it's just a minor gripe that has little to do with the content.

Also, I think players that actively (as in, vocally) prefer to watch console over tiles are good enough to not need these guides as much, so maybe in the future (if you make more), you could play online on console, with your web browser open and spectating yourself play on webtiles. Then you could have a virtual camera record the browser while you play console, or you could record both in the frame at the same time, but that'd probably be weird and confusing (people would be distracted by looking at the differences in the two versions instead of listening attentively). I've done this before (just the part about playing in console and looking at the tiles version every so often), and the delay between performing an action in console and seeing it happen in tiles is almost nonexistent, it's awesome.

Vizer wrote:Great idea!

But I think the webcam adds little to it. It seems anachronistic to have a person's face hovering in the corner of the screen where the main content is a decades-old graphical style, but it's just a minor gripe that has little to do with the content.

Also, I think players that actively (as in, vocally) prefer to watch console over tiles are good enough to not need these guides as much, so maybe in the future (if you make more), you could play online on console, with your web browser open and spectating yourself play on webtiles. Then you could have a virtual camera record the browser while you play console, or you could record both in the frame at the same time, but that'd probably be weird and confusing (people would be distracted by looking at the differences in the two versions instead of listening attentively). I've done this before (just the part about playing in console and looking at the tiles version every so often), and the delay between performing an action in console and seeing it happen in tiles is almost nonexistent, it's awesome.

That is brilliant. I didn't even know you could self-spectate from WebTiles to console!

Yeah, it's a great idea. Just do not play too fast.

As for the tiles vs console I do not really know. If it is locale, probably people saying that console would be more recognizable to newbies are right. The monster list makes it a lot easier.
I miss it from console version. also the full screen map. At least as I remember there was something like that in ASCII version. But overall the tiles is better I think. If devs would implement full screen map option and monster list, it would be godlike.

I did play the DEEn but splatted getting my fourteenth rune, I hate reapers. I'm really sorry but I don't have the time to repeat this right now - my university application is taking a lot of time, and though I've taken care of most of that by now, exams are coming up (and this is my A level year so they are really important, and I also have a special project in school involving writing a novella as an additional A level subject and I take university courses not aiming for a degree to prepare for my actual time at uni etc etc it's a lot of stuff). December is probably going to be when I can restart this, forgive me

Good lord! How old are you?

I somehow imagined you were a thirtysomething like me

Also: oh no, this thing that will be a lot of work and for which I would pay nothing will be delayed, waaaah

cerebovssquire is the king of the whippersnappers

Good lord! How old are you?

16 1/2

cerebovssquire is the king of the whippersnappers

it's the whippersnapper court, i'm the king, jabberwocky's the jester, and uh, ok it's a two-man court

cerebovssquire wrote:uh, ok it's a two-kid court

ftfy

The Tavern

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