How to break in to Xom vault?

[danr]

I've seen it twice now, a vault with an altar to Xom and a bunch of really nice loot (rods, staves, spellbooks) surrounded by unnaturally hard translucent rock wall.

Disintegration and digging don't work, and if I try a controlled teleport, I'm told that "A strong magical force throws you back". From what I read, Lugonu's Corruption and Passwall also don't work on such walls. The Crawl Wiki says they are indestructible.

Does that mean there is 0 way to get at this loot?

[dpeg]

It would be really cool if turning to Xom would open the vault for you.

[TehDruid]

It would be really cool if turning to Xom would open the vault for you.

And then... MIMICS! Xom roars with laughter!

[danr]

It would be really cool if turning to Xom would open the vault for you.

I wondered if it would. Does it?

Time to save-scum... I don't want to screw this character up if it's for nothing.

[Ossuary]

It would be really cool if turning to Xom would open the vault for you.

That wouldn't be cool, that would be un-xomish. Looks like you didn't get the point of that vault.

[danr]

I just tried, it didn't work. So those items for game purposes don't exist, there is no way to get them?

[TehDruid]

I just tried, it didn't work. So those items for game purposes don't exist, there is no way to get them?

It's Xom, his reason for existing is to troll people like that.

[Ossuary]

Haha, the items _are_ mimics.

NAME: xom_gifts_altar
TAGS: temple_overflow_xom uniq_altar_xom
CHANCE: 3
KFEAT: _ = altar_xom
KPROP: _ = bloody
KPROP: , = no_tele_into
KITEM: , = any mimic
MAP
XXXXXXX
XX,,,,,XX
X,,ooo,,X
X,,o_o,,X
XX,o.o,XX
XXX@XXX
ENDMAP

[dpeg]

You cannot get them at the moment. And it would be cool if you'd get access when going Xom. The point is not about trolling, Xom should be teasing the player. Some (or occasionally all) items could still be mimics, just like with naga guardian vaults.

[danr]

Good grief, even in Wizard mode I can't get in!

What's the point of any of them being mimics if there's no way to get to them anyway?

Getting access by conversion would be cool. I wonder how much loot it would take to convince me to switch from any other God to Xom though? Quite a lot, I think.

Or, if you could get in via teleporting, and they did turn out to be mimics (sometimes), that would also be cool though a bit spoilery once you know about it. Having them be mimics sometimes and treasure sometimes would make it less spoilery. Having cTele would be a reasonable access threshold esp. if its' likely only one or two of the items are actually good and you have to fight a bunch of mimics yet.

[Ossuary]

What's the point of any of them being mimics if there's no way to get to them anyway?

It's probably a final line of defense just in case a clever or lucky player comes around. Like being lucky when using a hatch ...

[cursednobleman]

What's the point of any of them being mimics if there's no way to get to them anyway?

I can say from experience (antennae/ashenzari) there aren't a few mimics, they are ALL mimics.

[KoboldLord]

Good grief, even in Wizard mode I can't get in!

What's the point of any of them being mimics if there's no way to get to them anyway?

In an older version of the vault, they weren't mimics. Players kept getting in, even though that was intended to be impossible. At least a couple card tricks worked, for instance. The mimic thing was a last-ditch effort to keep the players out, and as far as I know it has mostly worked.

[Kate]

Players didn't actually keep getting in but we figured out ways that they could have done in theory, involving some way of getting a monster to appear inside the vault (Lugonu corruption, evaporating water with Fedhas until a plant spawns) plus the Swap card. The actual issue is really still Swap working through glass and that should be fixed at some point, but making them all mimics was an easy solution at least.

If Xom were to let you get the loot on conversion it'd have to be toned down a lot, could have a variant of the vault where that's the case maybe.

[nicolae]

Good grief, even in Wizard mode I can't get in!

What's the point of any of them being mimics if there's no way to get to them anyway?

Unmitigated spite, which is an important ingredient in all vault design.

[danr]

Why not let players get in in the 1/1000 games where you actually have whatever it takes?

Meh, whatever. Now that I know it's just a bunch of mimics, it's suddenly a very boring vault.

[danr]

Somewhat ironically, I go back to my game, Identify a deck of escape, and the next top card is Swap. And then I remember this was in my other game.

[Tiber]

Players didn't actually keep getting in but we figured out ways that they could have done in theory, involving some way of getting a monster to appear inside the vault (Lugonu corruption, evaporating water with Fedhas until a plant spawns) plus the Swap card. The actual issue is really still Swap working through glass and that should be fixed at some point, but making them all mimics was an easy solution at least.

If Xom were to let you get the loot on conversion it'd have to be toned down a lot, could have a variant of the vault where that's the case maybe.

Is it possible to have an artifact generation setting that guarantees "double-edged" loot? That is, an artifact that is guaranteed to have at least one bad property. That might help balance things some, though great and terrible loot would still be possible (and should be, in the context of a Xom vault).

[JeffQyzt]

Is it possible to have an artifact generation setting that guarantees "double-edged" loot?

Yes, within certain bounds. For instance, you can specify that the base type be a particular "bad" item (e.g. ring of Hunger) and to try to turn it into a randart (you can even specify that it's for Xom, which will negate some of the normal sanity checks), but it won't guarantee that it will actually turn into a randart. Or you can specify something like base crystal plate mail that's cursed and has big negative enchantment. You can't specify out all the properties of a custom randart, though.