How is ranged damage calculated?

[Jk]

I'm trying to understand the learndb entry on "launcher damage". I'm assuming that entry pre-dates the slaying enchantment change in this version, so I've taken that into account below. But I'm pretty sure everything I'm doing below is completely wrong, as you'll see in a second

So first I'll add this up:

  Code:

(
3.25 + LAUNCHER_ENCHANTMENT/8
+
AMMO_ENCHANTMENT/16
+
min(
(str - 10) * (13+AMMO_ENCHANTMENT) / 32
,
(LAUNCHER_ENCHANTMENT+1)/4
)
+
SLAYING_BONUS/4
)


Then I'll multiply by the skill and brand effects:

  Code:

(SKILL + 1)/34
*
(BRAND_EFFECT)


And then I'll add the ammo enchantment

  Code:

+ AMMO_ENCHANTMENT/2

So, taking these assumptions:

1) Since I can't find any information on launcher min delay, I'll assume a bow's is 5 like the other 110% speed weapons, so skill here is 12.
2) I'll assume I'm using the +8, +8 Bow of Krishna "Sharnga" (Speed), because that's the item prompting my interest.
3) I'll assume a slaying bonus of +5/+5, because that's what the character in question has (well, he has +4/+5 but I can't figure out which slaying bonus you use where, so I'll fudge it)
4) I'll assume a strength of 11, because otherwise the math with the min() gets weird (so I assume that means bows requires strength 11 to not suck, and strength weighting for ranged damage is irrelevant?).
5) I'll assume plain old arrows, since frost/flame/poison/dispersal doesn't actually affect damage output, and we'll say we get the stack up to +4.

I get...

  Code:

(
3.25 + 1
+
4/16
+
min(
(11 - 10) * (13+4) / 32
,
(8+1)/4
)
+
5/4
)

*
(12 + 1)/34

*

0.9


So ...

  Code:

(4.5 + 0.53125 + 1.25) * 0.38235 * 0.9)

Equals around 2.16147 average damage with a delay of 3. Soooo... that can't possibly be right

[crate]

Probably you should just use fsim and test the situations you are interested in, it is much easier than trying to do the math yourself. Min delay for most bows is 0.6, but speed brand seems to only decrease that to 0.4; I admit I never actually tested a regular bow so maybe those are 0.5 min delay, but longbows are basically always better (and Sharnga is now a longbow in trunk anyway).

Ranged slaying was never changed when melee slaying was (probably because no one wanted to touch the ranged damage code). It was weaker than melee slaying back then and still is now.

Flame/frost arrows do increase damage.

Strength weighting is not irrelevant for ranged combat but the strength weighting affects attack delay and not really damage (i.e. bows have a str weight of something like 4, which means that dex decreases your attack delay more than str does, but dex does not affect the bonus damage from str. Crossbows have a str weight of something like 8 so str affects their attack delay much more than dex, but crossbows have no bonus damage from str.)

[KoboldLord]

The ranged damage system in the current version basically boils down to voodoo, but it seems to be the case that strength and dexterity matter a whole lot more for it than they do for melee combat. The skill breakpoint for minimum delay will vary a whole lot up and down the scale depending on those stats, so there's less of a blaring klaxon wailing until you meet a minimum threshold, and more of a yawning abyss into which you dump skill points until you fill it up.

Nevertheless, a well-enchanted launcher with a big stack of ammo and enough skill will kill pretty much everything. You don't really have to understand the formula when everything evaporates if you point your longbow at it.

Note that Sharnga is a 'bow', and not a 'longbow', so you're packing the ranged equivalent of a war axe instead of a battleaxe. It'll be okay for a while, but eventually a longbow of velocity (i.e. vorpal longbow) will be the clearly superior option.

[crate]

Sharnga as a regular bow is about as good as a +5 longbow of velocity (better at most skill levels) at 15 str/15 dex, so you might want to actually test things before you say it wasn't good (I tested against a yak). It will be worse against high-AC enemies but all bows have trouble against high-AC enemies anyway. Probably it is worse than a +8 longbow of velocity but that is a lot more enchant weapon scrolls that you may not even find in the first place or may have a better use for elsewhere.

[BlackSheep]

Sharnga was upgraded to a longbow somewhere along the line.

[KoboldLord]

so you might want to actually test things before you say it wasn't good (I tested against a yak).

I'm specifically comparing it to a +7~9/+7~9 longbow, which is what you'll typically end up with on a primarily ranged character by the end of a 3-Rune game and is functionally guaranteed to spawn. What else would you need to use your scrolls on?

If you're going to scold me for not testing something adequately, you should probably find a point where you disagree with me first.

Sharnga is great in Lair, and decent as a rarely-used ranged option for a primarily melee character. A specialist will eventually want to upgrade.

[crate]

I dunno, I've never ended up with a +8 longbow at the end of a 3 rune game. You want your melee weapon if you have one to be at least +4,+4 (maybe +4, +5). I've also had at least one game where I found zero longbows of velocity and zero vorpalise weapon scrolls through four runes (the usual three plus Tomb).

Anyway a +8 bow of speed is also close to as good as a +8 longbow of velocity, at least until you reach skill 24 or so (again 15 str/15 dex). It is better for a very long time.