Summon Hydra

[graffen69]

Does anyone use Summon Hydra? Ever?
The short duration of this spell and the level req to use it seems a bad match. At the time you can use it so many better summons out there. Maybe upgrade timer or remove it altogether? Or is there a niche for SH summoners?

[crate]

It is a good spell for fighting alongside your summons (though I realise apparently no one does this on this forum). Hydrae do a lot of damage to most enemies and it is reasonably easy to cast since it is single-school. It is my favourite summoning spell easily.

However unlike most summoning spells it is not super overpowered so it seems bad.

[dassem]

I think the niche is for people who can't summon demons (such as TSO worshipers) who cannot yet cast summon dragon.
Based on my limited experience (actually with a friendly hydra polymorphed from an orc) they seem devastating against blade wielding enemies, but a bit squishy otherwise.
Elf might be fun place for this spell.

[sardonica]

Does anyone use Summon Hydra? Ever?
The short duration of this spell and the level req to use it seems a bad match. At the time you can use it so many better summons out there. Maybe upgrade timer or remove it altogether? Or is there a niche for SH summoners?

If you were to theoretically take out all the other summons and just make Summon Hydra as a conjuration, it would easily be one of the most awesome and memorized spells. But it's surrounded by lots of uberpowered summons so it doesn't look shiny.

[cursednobleman]

Let's compare Summon Hydras to Summon Ugly Thing.

Summon Hydra:
+Higher Damage Spikes
-Extremely Brief Duration

Summon Ugly Thing:
+Easier to cast
+Longer Duration
+Possible Chance of Very Ugly Things with mean brands (red has Sticky flame!)



I frankly can't see why you'd choose hydras over uglies! Even the book it comes in is better (Book of Summonings v. Book of Beasts). Beasts might be cheaper if that's even remotely a factor, but uglies beat it by far.

[mikee]

Yes, I use it. It's a useful spell.

[rosstin]

I used it extensively in one game (Mummy Summoner, I think?) The damage output was very good, but the incredibly short duration was infuriating and annoying.

I'm really looking forward to permabuffs and a summoning rework.

[cerebovssquire]

Let's compare Summon Hydras to Summon Ugly Thing.

Summon Hydra:
+Higher Damage Spikes
-Extremely Brief Duration

Summon Ugly Thing:
+Easier to cast
+Longer Duration
+Possible Chance of Very Ugly Things with mean brands (red has Sticky flame!)



I frankly can't see why you'd choose hydras over uglies! Even the book it comes in is better (Book of Summonings v. Book of Beasts). Beasts might be cheaper if that's even remotely a factor, but uglies beat it by far.

It is not easy to see why you'd do it when you list them like this, where a + seems worth as much as any other. But you underestimate the higher damage, it is situationally much more important than the summon ugly thing advantages. An easy way to illustrate this: let one hydra fight against 3-5 slime creatures in a corridor, then let one ugly thing do it. This isn't just a slime creature thing, though; in every fight where terrain plays to a summoner's disadvantage (when it isn't very open) Summon Hydra is much much better. And it also kills single dangerous monsters quicker than ugly things. So keep both memorised, with the same reason as for memorising IMB and Bolt of Cold on a conjurer: one is usually better, but you need a spell for times when it isn't.

[sanka]

Also, hydras are very stong in water.
Haste makes them much more powerful than hasting ugly things.
I had both (summon ugly things and hydra) memorized with a summoner, and I used hydras a lot.

If summon caps will be introduced they will be even better (compared to other summons). Also the no attack outside LOS will buff them (compared to other summons).

[cursednobleman]

A large part of it might be due to the way I play summoners. I tend to have a nice blanket of summons before a fight even starts, so the hydra ends up getting confused by my cloud of imps or whatever I have covering me before the fight. I'd rather just upgrade the cloud than get a short term specialist.

[cerebovssquire]

Yes, in the open that "cloud" is better, however it's pretty much useless in a corridor unlike hydrae.

[graffen69]

I didn´t even consider the TSO argument and I realize TSO worshippers could become stuck without access to SH. Anyway, not like anyone forcing anyone to use SH.

[HisShadow]

Well i play Felid summonet and found book Fen Follo, and at that time i'm haved my best summon speels like: Summon forest and mana viper, so hydra became for me so long looked for upgrade from this book. But ye very short duration, so i use it when enemys get close enough to me through other summons, and for now hydras deal with them pretty good

[Sprucery]

Just in case someone gets confused by this 5-year old thread, Summon Ugly Thing was removed years ago. And you can't haste your hydras anymore...

[therealnebgrebaes]

It's nice, assuming you aren't going up against a fiery-weapon using opponent (i.e. Asrael or Cerebov- on that note, it is generally in poor taste to go up against Cere in general unless you are REALLY well prepared- I tried him once and kinda got tenderized)

[Majang]

It's nice, assuming you aren't going up against a fiery-weapon using opponent (i.e. Asrael or Cerebov- on that note, it is generally in poor taste to go up against Cere in general unless you are REALLY well prepared- I tried him once and kinda got tenderized)

Not just those two; any lowly efreet will hack your hydra to smoking pieces.