Mutation roulette

[ddubois]

• I have 14 potions of mutation and 4 potions of cure mutation.
• I haven't been to abyss yet (which I play on 'o'/Tab'ing through for hours at a time to scum XP before tackling extended), so I haven't to deal with endless neqoxecs and cacodemons.
• I haven't been to Zot, so orbs of fire may still do a number on me.
• I really do not wish to convert to Jivya from Makhleb (but if advised by the forum, I might be willing to do so on a temporary basis?).
• I do not yet have an amulet of resist mutation.
• I have ~16 rations, ~30 honeycomb, and amulet of gourmand, so the fast metabolism isn't too annoying.
• My current mutations are:
  
  You are resistant to damage.
  You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
  You resist negative energy.*
  You passively map a large area around you.
  You do not heal naturally.
  You have a pair of small horns on your head.*
  You have a fast metabolism.
  You are robust (+10% HP).
  You can spit poison.

What would you do with all those potions? Stand pat, right? Re-evaluate roulette after hitting the mutation zones?

[zogre]

I love mutation roulette.

It has, without fail, contributed to the death of every character I've had the opportunity to play it on.

I would start chugging potions - but I'd also probably die without ascending

Hopefully someone has better advice for you than I.

[KoboldLord]

That's a good set of mutations. You have robust 1, fast metabolism doesn't matter at any level, and neither of the other two is likely to be meaningful either way. You should not intentionally mess with that set.

In the general case, the only time mutation roulette with a stack of mutation potions is a good idea is if you start with a really, really bad set. Good mutations tend to be mildly helpful, while bad mutations can be very, very bad if you get one of the worst half-dozen.

Abyss scumming is a terrible way to prepare for the post-endgame. It's actually harder for a late-game farmer than Pan, on account of your resting hidey-hole being constantly deformed to let monsters in, and is likely to be less lucrative too.

[Dustbin]

I wouldn't do anything if you have no rmut, unless you're really set on playing mut roulette. You already have robust which is rather good, and with that much food fast metab is not really even a factor.

[Bloax]

I'd do it just because it's mutations and I drink/eat everything that has anything to do with that. (Unless it's shapeshifter corpses.)

[igor]

• I have 14 potions of mutation and 4 potions of cure mutation.
• I haven't been to abyss yet (which I play on 'o'/Tab'ing through for hours at a time to scum XP before tackling extended), so I haven't to deal with endless neqoxecs and cacodemons.
• I haven't been to Zot, so orbs of fire may still do a number on me.
• I really do not wish to convert to Jivya from Makhleb (but if advised by the forum, I might be willing to do so on a temporary basis?).
• I do not yet have an amulet of resist mutation.
• I have ~16 rations, ~30 honeycomb, and amulet of gourmand, so the fast metabolism isn't too annoying.
• My current mutations are:
  
  You are resistant to damage.
  You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
  You resist negative energy.*
  You passively map a large area around you.
  You do not heal naturally.
  You have a pair of small horns on your head.*
  You have a fast metabolism.
  You are robust (+10% HP).
  You can spit poison.

What would you do with all those potions? Stand pat, right? Re-evaluate roulette after hitting the mutation zones?

I would absolutely go for it, because you have far more potions of mutation and cure mutation than is common. The non-permanent mutations you have now are nice but not nearly as nice as they could be. Mutate, and if you get mostly negatives, then mutate again; if good, decide whether to stop or mutate again. If you have far more bad mutations than good, drink a cure. Just use good judgement on the mutations you get. If you get a really awesome mutation, then that might be a good stopping point. If you get a really bad mutation, then definitely mutate again or else cure. I'd err on the side of mutating until your very last, or next to the last, potion of cure mutation. The possible gains from good mutations far outstrip the risk. Besides, you will enjoy it rolling the dice.

[KoboldLord]

The possible gains from good mutations far outstrip the risk.

Just slow movement 1 or blurry vision 1 is more bad than any five good mutations put together are good. Even if you don't count good mutations that are actually bad. Quaffing four cure mutation potions in rapid succession are still not guaranteed to remove the one bad mutation you really want to get rid of.

Besides, you will enjoy it rolling the dice.

Well, that's true. It is often said, "Losing is fun!"

[zogre]

If losing at Crawl wasn't fun, the community would be very, very small...

[ddubois]

I got a couple of bad mutations from an orb of fire, so I decided to roulette a bit, then drank a cure mutation (my fifth!) when things started to go bad. Anyway, long story short, I ended up here:

You have a beak for a mouth.*
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
You are dopey (Int -4).
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You occasionally shout uncontrollably.
You can spit moderately strong poison.
Your muscles are extremely strong, but stiff (Str +3, Dex -3).

I've going to stand pat for now, because slotless clarity seems ridiculous, but I am pretty unhappy about -4 Int.

Hopefully this will be somewhat stable, as I've found a "resist mutation, and have the 'mutation resistance 1' intrinsic. Maybe I'll get lucky enough to get three more potions of gain Int to take away one of the red lines and appease my inner OCD.

[ddubois]

Abyss scumming is a terrible way to prepare for the post-endgame. It's actually harder for a late-game farmer than Pan, on account of your resting hidey-hole being constantly deformed to let monsters in, and is likely to be less lucrative too.

This is really dangerous advice. Pandemonium is way harder than Abyss. Going into pandemonium thinking it was as easy as abyss nearly got killed. The monster distribution seemed to contain a much higher percentage of tier 1 and 2 demons, whereas they are very rare in abyss. (Abyss is great for me because as a DD, I need lots of easy monsters to farm up mini-heals. I go there after every big battle, like between clearing out wings of hell.)

Then there's the fact that pandemonium portals can drop you in view of a pandemonium lord. Also, you have to worry about bailing on pan levels causing you to lose access to a rune. I'm not even sure if that happened to me, as I was too busy getting my butt kicked and blowing all my consumables to get to blue portals to read all my log. I'm probably ready for pandemonium now, but I sure wasn't when I was looking for a place to farm my last pip of TSO piety post-switch to get my trishula.

[crate]

Scumming is pretty silly in general ... if you are strong enough to scum abyss (pan) why don't you just go get your runes and win? Unless you worship Lugonu, in which case it is kind of not a bad idea other than boredom.

[njvack]

Pandemonium is way harder than Abyss.

Pan is much more consistent than Abyss, and the terrain is more favorable. In Pan, you can generally pick your battles; that's much more dicey in Abyss. Translocations in general work normally in Pan -- there's essentially no threat you can't (semi)cBlink your way out of. Loot is better in Pan, I think.

So: while I'd rather be running for an Abyss exit than a Pan exit at XL15, I'd much rather farm Pan at XL27.

[ddubois]

Scumming is pretty silly in general ... if you are strong enough to scum abyss (pan) why don't you just go get your runes and win? Unless you worship Lugonu, in which case it is kind of not a bad idea other than boredom.

I don't feel maximally confident that I'm ready to win. I had to run from Asmodeus the first time I encountered him (mostly because I wasn't buffed and I spent all my mana on angels "he has mass abjure?! "). He's supposed to be easier than Cerberov, yes?

I can't see any reason to not farm up 27 Fighting/Armour/Dodging before tackling the hardest part of the game.

Plus, I might try zigs.

[KoboldLord]

This is really dangerous advice. Pandemonium is way harder than Abyss. Going into pandemonium thinking it was as easy as abyss nearly got killed.

Pan has a higher average difficulty than the Abyss, but Abyss has nastier difficulty spikes. In the Abyss, many of your routine escape abilities stop working, whereas Pan provides you a whole bunch of extra ones. If you end up in some mind-numbing Pan level like one that's 45% shadow fiends and 45% hellions and 45% neqoxecs, you can bail on it at will with no penalty and get one more suited to your preferences.

The monster distribution seemed to contain a much higher percentage of tier 1 and 2 demons, whereas they are very rare in abyss.

Also known as ambulatory potions of experience. Friends don't let friends farm imps for xp.

I can't see any reason to not farm up 27 Fighting/Armour/Dodging before tackling the hardest part of the game.

The Crawl devteam has implemented a savage punishment for farming up 27 fighting/armour/dodging before tackling the hardest parts of the game. It's called farming up 27 fighting/armour/dodging.

[crate]

Asmodeus tends to give me personally a lot more trouble than Cerebov (or any of the other unique hellpan lords). Every single Geh:7 has awful terrain for fighting Asmodeus, whereas Cerebov's levels have decent places to fight from. In addition, you can't just ctele past Asmodeus, and you can't just safely rest up because you are in hell.

He will not kill you as quickly as Cerebov can, but fighting Asmodeus is tremendously frustrating much of the time.

[mrbobbyg]

The Crawl devteam has implemented a savage punishment for farming up 27 fighting/armour/dodging before tackling the hardest parts of the game. It's called farming up 27 fighting/armour/dodging.

Hilarious!

And KoboldLord is right, as he nearly always is. In Pan, you will never get randomly teleported to a magma island with 2 executioners and a tormentor and no escape and a 20 turn tele delay. That happens in the Abyss.

And really, scumming isn't worth it. If you MUST have better gear, and you already could credibly get the orb, then do some zig dipping. 10 levels or so won't kill you, and will likely get you way better gear than 20k turns in the abyss.