How do I SETm?

[That Other Guy]

I've played about 100 SETms so far, after I got SEEE in the "Suggest a build for the guy above you thread" and went on a Sludge Elf binge. I have yet to get one past level 10, and I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. I've played around a bit with skill distribution and god choice, and I've developed a method that feels pretty solid. I pump unarmed on level one, which gets it to about 6 or so. once I hit 7 or feel the need, I switch to transmutations, and get spiderform below 25% fail rate. This typically take 6 or so. I then get it to choko hunger. I may pump unarmed to 10 or so, but I typically keep on transmutations-ing to about 10. I join nemelex ASAP , and I sacrifice whatever, which is fine because it gives me summoning and destruction decks, which allow me to either drown or blast my enemies. I raise evocations to about 5 when I join Nemelex. I usually die before my one man-single digit skilled battle machine becomes a reality, though. Any advice on SETm, or Transmuters in general would be groovy.

Gonna dump one of my better transmuters, in case you can find my fatal flaw.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.0 character file.

1070 Jack the Ruffian (level 7, -2/64 HPs)
             Began as a Sludge Elf Transmuter on May 26, 2012.
             Was a Follower of Nemelex Xobeh.
             Slain by a centaur
             ... wielding a +0,+0 orcish club
              (7 damage)
             ... on Level 4 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:15:04 (5017 turns).

Jack the Insei (Sludge Elf Transmuter)              Turns: 5017, Time: 00:15:04

HP  -2/64        AC  5     Str 17      XL: 7   Next: 99%
MP  17/17        EV 12     Int 17      God: Nemelex Xobeh [*.....]
Gold 226         SH  0     Dex 14      Spells:  3 memorised,  9 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  B - +1 orc leather armour (curse)
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    n - +0 helmet
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    q - amulet of rage
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    l - ring of sustenance {unknown}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    p - +2 ring of strength

@: berserking, very quick, slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: Draw One, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage


You were on level 4 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh was most pleased with you.
You were hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 4 of its levels.

You collected 206 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Missiles
 b - 23 +0 arrows
 t - 30 poisoned +0 needles
Armour
 n - a +0 helmet (worn)
 B - a cursed +1 orcish leather armour (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a wand of confusion (0)
 v - a wand of frost (3)
 w - a wand of frost (5)
Comestibles
 a - 3 bread rations
 g - a lychee
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of detect curse
 e - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 k - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 r - a scroll of curse weapon {unknown}
 s - 4 scrolls of remove curse {unknown}
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed amulet of warding {unknown}
 l - a ring of sustenance (right hand) {unknown}
 p - a +2 ring of strength (left hand)
 q - an amulet of rage (around neck)
Potions
 i - 2 potions of restore abilities
 m - a potion of invisibility {unknown}
 u - a potion of speed {unknown}
 z - a potion of mutation
 A - a potion of slowing {unknown}
Books
 d - a book of Changes   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Beastly Appendage                 Transmutation                1
   *Sticks to Snakes                  Transmutation                2
   *Spider Form                       Transmutation/Poison         3
   Ice Form                           Ice/Transmutation            4
   Blade Hands                        Transmutation                5
Magical staves
 o - a cursed +1 rod of striking (9/9) {unknown}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
Miscellaneous
 h - an ornate deck of destruction {drawn: 8} {god gift}


   Skills:
 - Level 1.1 Fighting
 - Level 2.4 Dodging
 + Level 7.1 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 4.9 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.8 Transmutations
 - Level 4.4 Evocations


You had 9 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Beastly Appendage     Trmt           ####...      1%          1    None
b - Sticks to Snakes      Trmt           ####......   2%          2    Sultana
c - Spider Form           Pois/Trmt      ###.......   17%         3    Choko


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (4/27)           
Temple: D:4-7       

Altars:
Fedhas
Nemelex Xobeh

Message History

You punch the centaur.
The centaur is lightly wounded.
The centaur hits you but does no damage.
You punch the centaur.
The centaur is heavily wounded.
You punch the centaur!
The centaur is almost dead.
The centaur drinks a potion. The centaur is healed!
You punch the centaur!
The centaur is moderately wounded.
The centaur closely misses you.
You punch the centaur!
The centaur is almost dead.
The centaur hits you with an uncursed orcish club.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You punch the centaur but do no damage.
The centaur is almost dead.
The centaur hits you with an uncursed orcish club!
You die...
Your body disappears without a glow.

..PP_PP...#.#.#######...
.(PPP.P.###.#.#...##<...
...P.PP.# #.#...........
........# #.###...#.....
...###.## #c#...........
###....#  #.#.##..#.....
  #....#  #.......#.....
###....######.##......#.
.......(...#c......#....
.......###.#@#..##.##.##
.......# #.#.((..#.##...
˜˜˜.)..# #.#...(.#.#####
˜˜˜˜...# #.#...#.#.#
˜.˜˜..## #...#.#.#.#
˜˜˜˜..#  ###.#...#.#####
˜˜˜...#    #.#####.....#
......#    #.# #######.#
......#    #.# #<...##.#


You could see a centaur.

Vanquished Creatures
  Grinder (D:3)
  Edmund (D:4)
  2 ogres
  A phantom (D:4)
  An orc priest (D:3)
  A worker ant (D:4)
  Jessica (D:2)
  Terence (D:2)
  4 gnolls (D:3)
  3 adders
  A worm (D:2)
  A grey rat (D:4)
  A giant gecko (D:2)
  2 oozes
  9 orcs (D:3)
  5 ball pythons
  12 goblins
  6 hobgoblins
  A quokka (D:3)
  4 bats
  6 giant cockroaches
  7 giant newts
  10 kobolds
  13 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:4)
  A toadstool (D:3)
96 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A rat (D:1)
  A bush (D:4)
  4 toadstools
6 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 102 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Jack, the Sludge Elf Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 1/1
   203 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 13/18 MP: 4/4
   222 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   989 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
   989 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 23/23 MP: 5/5
  1239 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  1654 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  1687 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1706 | D:2      | Killed Terence
  1868 | D:2      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  1868 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 17/28 MP: 7/7
  1868 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 19/33 MP: 10/10
  2040 | D:2      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  2068 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh
  2159 | D:2      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  2357 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  2753 | D:2      | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes
  2757 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
  2816 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  2816 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
  2816 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 36/38 MP: 11/14
  2860 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 22/43 MP: 11/16
  3130 | D:3      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  4193 | D:4      | Found a glowing drain.
  4368 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  4479 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  4628 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  4667 | D:4      | Killed Edmund
  5017 | D:4      | Slain by a centaur

[smock]

Try training poison magic instead of tmut. It's a cheaper way to get spider form. Until lair there's not much reason train tmut above the necessary minimum to get spider form online.

I don't know if you should focus on UC or Evocations.

[That Other Guy]

Try training poison magic instead of tmut. It's a cheaper way to get spider form. Until lair there's not much reason train tmut above the necessary minimum to get spider form online.

I don't know if you should focus on UC or Evocations.

Is it actually cheaper? I figured in the long term more transmutations would be better, and it has a higher aptitude. I guess poison gives me a better return on my experience if I put a few levels in it though, which has been the primary factor in the way I've been distributing skills, which is one of my favorite parts of the build.

[crate]

You only need like 1 poison skill for spider form to be at 30%, which is completely acceptable success for a long time. You won't even notice the missing xp later and it is faster than getting an extra level of tmut.

Anyway the best skilling advice for Tm in general is to remember that you primarily punch dudes and also cast spells, instead of primarily cast spells and also punch dudes.

[smock]

Is it actually cheaper? I figured in the long term more transmutations would be better, and it has a higher aptitude. I guess poison gives me a better return on my experience if I put a few levels in it though, which has been the primary factor in the way I've been distributing skills, which is one of my favorite parts of the build.

Much cheaper! Of course in the long run more tmut is better. But with 100 attempts and no long run yet, try optimizing for the short run for now. Anyway, the 1-3 level of poison magic is a negligible xp "loss" for a character that has finished lair.

[cerebovssquire]

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... uter_Guide

This guide shows how I play my SETms and I think it works rather well. At any rate it wasn't hard to win with it.

Note that while I train for spider form first, mikee recommends getting Unarmed Combat 5. He told me that he doesn't want to rely on Spider Form for killing things; personally I prefer the power and speed of Spider Form as soon as possible. Probably you want to trust him more than me though
I think you shouldn't be training for spell hunger reduction that early. Food isn't going to kill you, too little spell success/damage output will.

[XuaXua]

The guide addresses NOT using Blade Hands for hydra, but does not advise how to handle them at close range. With okawaru, I hit Heroism (and finesse if I have time and there are 6+ heads) and cast Ice Form. Ice form and Rage or Haste works too if available.

[cerebovssquire]

"Do not use this spell against hydra, as like any bladed weapon, it will cause more heads to grow; ice form is a better choice."

lrn2read

[Jeremiah]

Or use spider form to run away.

[BlackSheep]

Or use wands like any other character that doesn't have a better option.

[XuaXua]

lrn2read

Yeah, I'm with you till that last line there, winky or no.

"Do not use this spell against hydra, as like any bladed weapon, it will cause more heads to grow; ice form is a better choice."

Better wording. Puts the answer closer to the question, throws the rationale aside:

Use Ice Form instead of this spell against hydra; as with any bladed weapon, Blade Hands will generate more heads.

[BlackSheep]

I'm starting to sense a pattern...

[rebthor]

"Do not use this spell against hydra, as like any bladed weapon, it will cause more heads to grow; ice form is a better choice."

lrn2read

Glad to see that my addition to your guide was found helpful by at least 1 person