End Game Characters


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Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 00:41

End Game Characters

So, I'm a noob at crawl, I've only played a few months, and only played a few hundred games. I have however gotten, 3 characters to Zot. Out of those 4 characters, there have been no survivors. Is there any trick to surviving it that I'm missing, it seems like I'm doing something wrong, but I always wait until XP27, got my skills relatively high, and at least 4 runes. I've typically had minimal trouble with other areas of the game that are supposed to screw you up, such as TRJ, Vault:8, Elf:5 and the Abyss, but every time I get into Zot I get my ass handed to me as by either a golden dragon or an orb of fire.

The 3 characters I've gotten there were 1 MiFi, one NaFi or oka, and one NaFi of Chei. My casters typically get raped by yaktaurs in the vaults, any advice you have on late game casters would be groovy, too.
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Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 02:08

Re: End Game Characters

Make sure to have at least rF+, and preferrably higher, rF+++ obviously being the best to deal with Orbs of Fire. Golden dragons need a bit of everything to resist. If I recall correctly, you need rPois, rF and good AC/EV.
Try to find good artefacts with some resistances on them. The damage from Orbs of Fire is not to be underestimated.
Some way to resist mutation could also be nice, but not required if you're planning on ascending right after clearing Zot:5. After all, once you're out it doesn't matter how badly mutated you are.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 02:28

Re: End Game Characters

When playing fighters in Zot, take standard melee tactics and turn them up to eleven. Fight in corridors with stairs at your back, or, better, draw monsters up stairs one at a time and kill them on a cleared level. Run like hell if you think you might have problems in ten or fifteen turns. Use all consumables necessary. Be prepared to switch jewellery at a moment's notice, as it's very unlikely you'll be able to get all the necessary resists stacked up together.

On Zot:5, be three times as cautious as in the rest of Zot. In the Orb chamber, ten times.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 07:20

Re: End Game Characters

Grimm wrote:Be prepared to switch jewellery at a moment's notice, as it's very unlikely you'll be able to get all the necessary resists stacked up together.

This is is actually very important. The only thing I remember from my first ascension is that in Zot I constantly switched staves of element and rings of resist element to match the nearest enemy, even made macros for it. That's a bit tedious, but it works. Realm of Zot is the "boss level" of the normal game while Zot:5 is the "boss", so act accordingly.

If you play a heavy armour fighter and couldn't find an artifact armour with good multiple resistances OR rF++, then butcher every gold dragon corpse you see.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 07:40

Re: End Game Characters

Also, don't fight the Orbs of Fire if you can help it.


rElec is important too for the Electric Golems, Storm Dragons, and Golden Dragons (I think, been awhile since I paid attention to what they were spitting at me).
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 08:09

Re: End Game Characters

rElec is important too for the Electric Golems, Storm Dragons, and Golden Dragons (I think, been awhile since I paid attention to what they were spitting at me).


These only spit fire, cold and poison attacks.
To the person who said you need rPois: no, poison is utterly irrelevant in Zot, as in just totally disregard it and carry a couple curing potions to cure it or confusion

I have done Zot with absolutely no rF or rElec and it sucked (one near-death experience). So I think rF+(+), rElec are "requirements" to do Zot reliably, and anything else is optional and potentially helpful. If you have low MR, watch out around aliches though and get them killed first.

10ish traps&doors is helpful in Zot - you don't want to be suddenly teleported or paralysed from traps!

"casters" (primary spellcasters, I take it) will all benefit from the following:
1) a solid melee attack to save MP, hunger and noise (mainly the former)
2) Charms skill and Swiftness, Control Teleport, Repel Missiles, Haste, Regeneration (ridiculous spells for low costs: 12 Charms)
3) Translocations skill and Blink, Control Teleport, Phase Shift, Apportation, Controlled Blink (ridiculous spells for medium costs: 14 Translocations)
4) a form of replenishing MP: Sublimation of Blood, staff of channeling/Wucad Mu, crystal ball of energy, Sif Muna, Vehumet
5) Fighting skill
6) Dodging/Armour / Dodging+Armour depending on armour
7) mottled dragon armour (unless you are low on rF or find some ridiculous randart)

re: Chei, Bend Time works against really high-MR dudes as well... (not orbs though)
re: Oka, no reason to save piety so just spam Finesse/Heroism

also, just use all of your consumables, save some tele and digging for the orb run

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 09:47

Re: End Game Characters

Rpois is nice in zot since it lets you stand in poison clouds without having to waste a turn on curing (and the poison damage from standing in them does add up). That said it's not by any means necessary.

If you intend to melee electric golems you will need rElec (potions of resistance are likely enough here, if you don't have another source). If you have very good EV and rmsl/dmsl you can maybe get away without it but it is still risky.

If you have a lot of hp/AC you can get by with just rF+; rF++ is what you really want though.

Be very careful around moths of wrath; if they berserk an orb guardian you are in serious trouble (all three of my online zot deaths are to orb guardians, and at least two of those were berserk). Draconian callers (and in particular summoned death drakes) are also threats you should not overlook.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 11:10

Re: End Game Characters

Also, you really want see invisible for ghost moths, which can really ruin your day if you're playing a caster. They can even be annoying if you're a non-caster as you could suddenly lose access to your god abilities if you have no MP. However, I think being invisible yourself will protect you from their draining.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 19:40

Re: End Game Characters

SInv is de rigueur by D:15.
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Barkeep

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Post Saturday, 7th April 2012, 21:48

Re: End Game Characters

+1 on the "be careful around moths of wrath" comment -- a golden dragon really does manageable amounts of melee damage and is no faster than you. A berserk golden dragon does a boatload of damage and moves faster than you. And like crate says, they make orb guardians really, really "fun." The Moth of Wrath is the priority target.

The biggest things to worry about with drac callers are that summons can spawn behind you and death drakes who love to spew miasma -- it's plenty easy to get trapped in a corridor between a drac and a drake in a rotty, slowy cloud. Some way to blink is a lifesaver all through Zot.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Sunday, 8th April 2012, 11:03

Re: End Game Characters

For casters, focus on haste, repel/deflect missiles, a mid level conjuration, an area of effect conjuration and ideally cBlink. Carry a shield and a weapon you can deal some damage with if you need to. Kill things one at a time and stairdance, or drop freezing clouds in corridors to take out whole groups.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Sunday, 8th April 2012, 19:23

Re: End Game Characters

Also, Draconian Scorchers are jerks with their Hellfire spam.

If you have access to reliable whatever Storm, you can do Zot very easily so long as you're careful.
The best strategy most frequently overlooked by new players for surviving: not starting a fight to begin with.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 10th April 2012, 09:24

Re: End Game Characters

What to do on zot:5:
Take it slowly. Think about what you're doing. Control the space around you.

You should almost never be fighting more than one thing at a time, and ideally you should never have more than one thing in sight at a time.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 06:47

Re: End Game Characters

njvack wrote:they make orb guardians really, really "fun."

Fun as defined in Dwarf Fortress.
cerebovssquire wrote:I have done Zot with absolutely no rF or rElec and it sucked (one near-death experience). So I think rF+(+), rElec are "requirements" to do Zot reliably, and anything else is optional and potentially helpful.

But your advice for the rest of us mortals, who didn't post a 3:02 15 rune win would be... :D
"It's lucky to be smart, but smarter to be lucky."
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 06:48

Re: End Game Characters

sir_laser wrote:
njvack wrote:they make orb guardians really, really "fun."

Fun as defined in Dwarf Fortress.
cerebovssquire wrote:I have done Zot with absolutely no rF or rElec and it sucked (one near-death experience). So I think rF+(+), rElec are "requirements" to do Zot reliably, and anything else is optional and potentially helpful.

But your advice for the rest of us mortals, who didn't post a 3:02 15 rune win would be... :D


The advice for the rest of you mortals ( ;) ) is the rF++ rElec bit.
Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player, it makes me a hyperactive featherweight so tiny that 1 litre of coffee charges me up in a very unhealthy fashion (I assume the effects of caffeine are somehow linked to amount of caffeine/mass??). :P

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Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 06:56

Re: End Game Characters

cerebovssquire wrote:Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player-

Dude...what?
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 07:21

Re: End Game Characters

cerebovssquire wrote:
The advice for the rest of you mortals ( ;) ) is the rF++ rElec bit.
Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player, it makes me a hyperactive featherweight so tiny that 1 litre of coffee charges me up in a very unhealthy fashion (I assume the effects of caffeine are somehow linked to amount of caffeine/mass??). :P


Well, it certainly does not make you worse either.
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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 19:36

Re: End Game Characters

sir_laser wrote:
cerebovssquire wrote:Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player-

Dude...what?


He's absolutely right -- allruning in 3:02 doesn't necessarily improve one's Crawl skill. It'd be more correct to say that being a better Crawl player allows one to allrune in 3:02 :D
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Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 20:31

Re: End Game Characters

You all-runed in 3 minutes and two seconds?

geez, i haven't decided on a species/background in that time.

j/k. I'm assuming that's a 3 hour 2 minute thing. right? RIGHT?!

//right?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 20:43

Re: End Game Characters

IronJelly wrote:You all-runed in 3 minutes and two seconds?

geez, i haven't decided on a species/background in that time.

j/k. I'm assuming that's a 3 hour 2 minute thing. right? RIGHT?!

//right?

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Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 21:19

Re: End Game Characters

njvack wrote:
sir_laser wrote:
cerebovssquire wrote:Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player-

Dude...what?


He's absolutely right -- allruning in 3:02 doesn't necessarily improve one's Crawl skill. It'd be more correct to say that being a better Crawl player allows one to allrune in 3:02 :D

Sorry, that's the point I was trying to make. If cerebovssquire is good enough to allrune in 3:02, perhaps the advice he gives assumes a certain standard of play, one that is not found in most novice to journeymen players (example, I sure as **** didn't know that cards of Wild Magic could kill you in one turn w/ 38 damage until about 7 months after I first started playing), such as making the effort of only facing one enemy at a time in Zot.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 13th April 2012, 23:17

Re: End Game Characters

Also watch out for Draconian shifters. Getting byssed is a pain in the ass, so switch out for lots of MR.

Jeremiah wrote:Also, you really want see invisible for ghost moths, which can really ruin your day if you're playing a caster. They can even be annoying if you're a non-caster as you could suddenly lose access to your god abilities if you have no MP. However, I think being invisible yourself will protect you from their draining.


+1 here. Ghost Moths destroy casters; even as a Sif worshipper, your channeling disappears every turn as soon as you channel it. My most recent time in Zot was on a MuIE who was forced to do a controlled TP away from a Ghost Moth because there was literally nothing I could do against it (I had no melee skill). Without rPois, they can do large amounts of damage, as I learned the hard way on an OpEE that died on the Orb run.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 17th April 2012, 23:36

Re: End Game Characters

I found allies/summons/meat shields to be a blessing for end game, mainly just for escaping. It can be tedious to start down that path if you haven't before hand, but just spamming a few allies/summons can really get you out of a tricky situation easier than other less reliable means.

Secondly, I don't tend to go for Zot:5 until I can look at my equipment/skills and go 'seriously, I am one hell of an all round bad ass'. As a caster, I'd suggest getting into corridors and trying to shoot out clouds/storms into an open space at the end of the corridor. I also feel that all casters should be absolutely ninja at tloc, especially given how easy it is to just blink away from everything.

As an aside, I have a friend in army intel who literally plans Zot:5/Zigs as a military offensive - the look of concentration and harrowing exhaustion is immensely fun. Nothing better than watching someone play Zot 5 and getting surrounded by a drac pack and moths of wrath...WHAT DO I HAVE DEAR GOD WHERE ARE MY POTIONS WHY DON'T I HAVE rP I JUST HAD THAT ON MY AMULET OH GOD I LEFT IT AT MY STASH I SPENT DAYS AND DAYS WHY DID I AMNESIA THAT SPELL THIS IS TOO MUCH...cntrl+s.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 18th April 2012, 17:26

Re: End Game Characters

cerebovssquire wrote:Winning 15 runes in 3:02 doesn't make me a better player,7


What macros did you use, by the way?

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